cocooned genset

[Cafnod]

We are thinking about having a built in permanant generator, around the 2.8 - 4kw in size.

We do not want to carry a genset on and off the boat all the time and are looking for a cocooned type we can permanantly install.

Does anyone have any experience of these, any reccomendations or horrors to avoid?

Apologies if this subject has been covered before but I could not find it in a forum search.

Edited May 30, 2006 by Cafnod

[Ernie]

I purchased and had loaded onto my boat, a 3.8kW Honda Diesel Generator last week. The generator is in effect cocooned to reduce noise. Honda class the generator as Super Quiet, I would class it as acceptable, not quiet by any means.

The generator is firmly secured to the boat so that it can not move around in say an impact (safety) and is housed inside the cratch cover at the bow (reasonable air flow, and outside the accommodation area). The exhaust is (will be) vented to the outside of the cratch cover.

The guy that craned it onto the boat for me (it weights 200Kg) is a boat safety inspector. He informed me that, although he could not see any reason why the generator installation would cause the boat to fail a safety inspection, he did say that if he were to be inspecting the boat, he would have to seek advice as to the regulations for a permanently mounted generator such as described above.

 

Does anyone have any experience of a set up such as mine with respect to the BSS ?

 

Regards

Ernie

[DaveR]

Ernie, I am looking into generators for the boat myself,

 

When you say the noise is acceptable - is that only the exhaust noise ?

 

If so, could the level of silencing be improved to reduce the noise?

 

Thanks

 

Dave

Edited July 28, 2006 by DaveR

[stuart]

Would you have any BSS problems with storing a petrol/fuel device close to the gas lockers?

[Ernie]

Dave,

The generator is a:

http://www.edgetechnology.co.uk/honda/hondaEX4D.htm

 

The documentation that came with it guarantees that the noise level will be below 66dB(A) at 7M. Being Honda, I am inclined to believe the noise guarantee. I have not noticed much difference in the sound level between low load and high load - which is good. I have had it running the washer/dryer at 2200W at the same time as the microwave at 1000W+ with no problem and no sign that the generator is even starting to break into a sweat.

 

The noise is a mixture of exhaust and general mechanical 'rattle', 50%/50% at a guess. I am hoping that when I fit the exhaust extension pipe to route the exhaust outside of, and to the front of the cratch area, the overall noise will reduce a little bit.

 

I believe that the noise could be reduced still further by adding another layer of acoustic insulation around the outside of the generator, but I would be concerned that this may effect cooling – I do not plan to do this.

 

On my boat, the living area is at the stern, the bedroom being at the front. With the bedroom door closed (and the door between bedroom and cratch closed), the generator sounds like a low level ‘drone’ when in the living area or on the cruiser stern deck. A few minutes after starting the generator, the noise becomes ‘background’ and I don’t really notice it much. I guess that maybe after shelling out so much money for a ‘Super Quiet’ generator, perhaps I am being super critical. I am certainly not disappointed with the generator and would go down the same route again.

 

If anyone is interested, I noticed that the same generator is for sale on ebay at (currently) half price.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1

 

Sod’s Law, I had been watching ebay for weeks. Two weeks after I buy the generator from new, one comes up second hand on ebay !!!

 

Stuart, good question, this is the sort of question I would like an answer to.

Cheers Ernie.

[Pirate]

Wow these are quiet expensive units, so it`s not such a bad idea to run your engine to generate power with the alternater type generator on it then, since even a new engine would only be around £5000?

[GUMPY]

One of the best allthough possibly a bit big for a narrowboat is:

http://www.energy-solutions.co.uk/nl-generators.html

 

If you want somethinng smaller

http://www.fischerpanda.co.uk/iqs/sid.0281...generators.html

 

The main difference is that the northern lights runs at 1500rpm so they are intrinsicly quieter, both are under £5000

 

Personally I would go for the northern lights if I could afford it but until then will make do with a chinese genny the last one of which lasted 3 years before I destroyed it due to lack of cold air. Im justy glad it was only £500 because the same would have happened to any aircooled genny. I will be fitting extractor fans for the new one to remove the hot air from the engine room whilst allowing cold air in from the vents.

 

J

[Cafnod]

Personally I would not want an air cooled generator, I know they are relatively portable and simple to install but I feel the penalty of mechanical noise is too high if you are going to run the genset for long periods.

We looked at a secondhand trad stern narrowboat with a watercooled cocooned single cylinder genset built in, I dont remember the make, but they ran the genset up and it sounded very quiet and ran smoothly for a single cylinder diesel engine.

We were at a chandlers/boatyard one time and they had a similar set there, it was secondhand and had been sold, otherwise I would have bought it. I have no idea what make that one was either.

If anyone knows of a 3.5 - 4kw single/twin cylinder watercooled diesel genseton the market I would be greatly interested, especially if it was an inverter type.

[lymmranger]

In my experience the more money you pay then the quieter the unit.

 

I am currently DIY`ing a (hopefully) silent genset

 

So far it is still "noisier" than I would like..........

 

anyone lend me £8k for an "onan" ??????????/

[bottle]

In my experience the more money you pay then the quieter the unit.

 

I am currently DIY`ing a (hopefully) silent genset

 

So far it is still "noisier" than I would like..........

 

anyone lend me £8k for an "onan" ??????????/

 

Would love to but need the money for the one that is going into my boat (fited as standard)

[david and julie]

If anyone knows of a 3.5 - 4kw single/twin cylinder watercooled diesel genseton the market I would be greatly interested, especially if it was an inverter type.

We have a Kubota 4kw (4.5kva)watercooled and cocooned generator, it is a twin cylinder diesel. Model is called a Lowboy and they were mainly fitted to mobile lighting towers.

 

They don't describe them as inverter type but they do have AVR. Ours works TV, microwave and Neff washer dryer (which is full of fancy electronics) without any problems or interference. A friend has the 6.5 kva model and his works everything too.

 

Ours is mounted on secondary rubber mountings, on the swim plate of a semi trad, it exhausts out of the side of the boat in the same way as the main engine. I also wired it for remote start which was simple enough. The set up was inspected and passed BSS no problems.

 

These sets were made in 4.5 5.5 and 6.5 Kva. The 4.5 models have a flat engine and are slightly lower which lets you get them below the deck boards.

 

I believe the term"silent" is a misnomer, they all make some noise which is made worse by the steel hull. I found having secondary rubber mountings helped the most as they reduced vibrations, which are actually more annoying than noise.

 

The Northen lights models mention earlier are the best, if you can find (or afford one ). I got my Kubota of Ebay with a genuine 71 hours on it for £540 but I think I fell lucky.

[Cafnod]

Hi

Is your genset watercooled or air cooled?

[arlow11]

could you buy a small one man boat sound proof it,chuck in a cheap generator,long extension lead

[AllanW]

Interesting topic...

 

I'm in the preliminary stages of planning a boat, and am considering an engine mounted 3.5 kva generator (possibly an electrolux travel pack?)

 

Unfortunately the boats I've been on have all been supplied 240v via an inverter, so I don't really have any experience of a genset (engine mounted or otherwise) - and the liveaboards and cc-ers I know have either shore line hook ups and/or big batttery banks with inverters

 

My questions are...

 

If fitted in a properly sound insulated engine bay, will a travelpack be the quietest way of generating?

 

Does anyone have any comments on the benefits or disadvantages of generating from the engine vs. dedicated genset?

 

Will the potential problem of using expensive white diesel negate any benefits to having an engine mounted generator in the future (as opposed to having a seperate red diesel generator)?

 

Is it even worth considering an 'electric' boat, and just have a red diesel generator running an electric drive??? (Will they let us do that?)

 

BTW - My prospective boat builder suggests the travel pack option - but then again - he would wouldn't he?

 

Allan

Edited July 30, 2006 by AllanW

[Cafnod]

1 No because you are running the main boat engine to produce electricity, obviously a smaller engine can be made quieter, at least in theory.

2 Yes it is inefficient, expensive,causes wear and pollution and is really a compromise. It is convenient though. Dedicated gensets mean that if there is a problem with the main engine you can still have electricity, if the genset fails you can still charge batteries to run an inverter.

If you were generating electricity and or battery charging you could still run your main engine on red diesel.

You will not be able to use red diesel for direct or indirect propulsion should the derogation be removed.

Boat builders love to maximise profits, putting in an easily mounted travel power is a high profit low effort option for them to make lots of money.

[david and julie]

Hi

Is your genset watercooled or air cooled?

We have a Kubota 4kw (4.5kva)watercooled and cocooned generator, it is a twin cylinder diesel. Model is called a Lowboy and they were mainly fitted to mobile lighting towers.

[david and julie]

Noise seems to be the main issue here. As anyone tried an LPG set? I noticed this one on Ebay earlier which may suit someone who is after a quiet machine for occasional use, I doubt they come much quieter than these.

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Honda-EU-30-silent-g...1QQcmdZViewItem

[NB Willawaw]

Travel Powers don't take up much room.

 

The downside is that you have to run the main engine everytime you want to use the high power consumers like the washing machine etc. This is not always practical as they can be noisy, but its suitability will depend on how you want to use the boat (will you have access to shoreline, etc), are you moored in a busy marina etc. Generally, the engine will have to run at a reasonable speed to get the full 230V. I've seen them generate only about 200V at tickover speeds on load.

 

Dedicated integral and cocooned gensets are not cheap. They are a lot quieter than running your normal engine. You could run it off red diesel if white diesel becomes mandatory for propulsion in the future.

 

I am working on an electric boat project at the moment. Don't go there just to solve your generating problems - its fraught with other challenges.

 

We have a separate genset because we are a gas free boat. Its very quiet but, it put another £6-7k on the price of the boat when she was built 3 years ago.

 

 

Interesting topic...

 

I'm in the preliminary stages of planning a boat, and am considering an engine mounted 3.5 kva generator (possibly an electrolux travel pack?)

 

Unfortunately the boats I've been on have all been supplied 240v via an inverter, so I don't really have any experience of a genset (engine mounted or otherwise) - and the liveaboards and cc-ers I know have either shore line hook ups and/or big batttery banks with inverters

 

My questions are...

 

If fitted in a properly sound insulated engine bay, will a travelpack be the quietest way of generating?

 

Does anyone have any comments on the benefits or disadvantages of generating from the engine vs. dedicated genset?

 

Will the potential problem of using expensive white diesel negate any benefits to having an engine mounted generator in the future (as opposed to having a seperate red diesel generator)?

 

Is it even worth considering an 'electric' boat, and just have a red diesel generator running an electric drive??? (Will they let us do that?)

 

BTW - My prospective boat builder suggests the travel pack option - but then again - he would wouldn't he?

 

Allan

Edited July 30, 2006 by NB Willawaw

[Cafnod]

Hi Mark

You say travel powers only put out low voltages at low revs? I thought they were an alternator powering an inverter, have I got this wrong?

[Ernie]

I also have an Electrolux Travel Power but still decided to go for a separate generator.

 

The Electrolux works fine as long as long as the engine revs are kept above 1200 RPM. This means that running say the washing machine while cruising is a problem as you continuously slow down to tick-over while passing moored boats etc. When at tick-over, the voltage drops significantly and you can hear the engine struggling against the alternator load (hunting). Also, in the documentation that came with the boat, it warns that running the Electrolux at low revs while loaded is very bad for the drive belt, I guess this is because of the fluctuating load as the engine ‘hunts’.

 

If I had the choice, I would have gone for a water cooled diesel generator mounted in the engine bay, unfortunately, there is not enough room on my boat so I went for the air cooled diesel option.

 

Regards

Ernie

[AllanW]

Hi y'all

 

I've now done a bit of searching for my own education about diesel gensets

 

These are the ones that caught my eye the most - thought I'd share the link...

 

http://www.advanceyacht.co.uk/generators.htm

 

Let me know if anyone has any experience of these please

 

Allan

[Amicus]

They seem very similar to these,

 

 

http://www.mastervolt.com/com/53/prg/1015/generators.html

[JimChuffff]

In my experience the more money you pay then the quieter the unit.

 

I am currently DIY`ing a (hopefully) silent genset

 

So far it is still "noisier" than I would like..........

 

anyone lend me £8k for an "onan" ??????????/

 

Did you have any luck DIYing a silent generator? I've just got an old Kubota lowboy (allegedly) silent generator, which is not so quiet (yet)... its currently sat on deck (where its going to stay), standing on chunks of 1" polyurethane board so soak up some vibration, which does work a bit, but not really enough.

 

Have you got any tips on how to reduce vibration transferring to the hull, and how to enclose it so as to not annoy the rest of the world? I'm thinking a hospital silencer (got one in my shed) and layers of polyurethane slab with neoprene inbetween around the engine. Space is not a problem, so a 4" thick box around it would be OK.

 

thanks in advance,

 

Jim

[david and julie]

Did you have any luck DIYing a silent generator? I've just got an old Kubota lowboy (allegedly) silent generator, which is not so quiet (yet)... its currently sat on deck (where its going to stay), standing on chunks of 1" polyurethane board so soak up some vibration, which does work a bit, but not really enough.

My Lowboy was originally mounted on a wheeled frame which I replaced with a subframe (I fabricated this myself out of 50mm angle) this subframe then bolts to the boat via a rubber mounting in each corner so it has its own original internal rubber mounts and a secondary set.

 

I have a second silencer which exits through the side of the boat but this isn't the hospital type as I didn't have the room for one. The rear bulkhead is also soundproofed in the engine compartment (semi-trad) and when using the gennie I usually close both rear doors and the bedroom door.

 

I would say the noise from outside is about the same as the boats own engine(Beta 38) I can't hear it running at a boats length away in either direction and there's very little vibration. I still avoid using it though if other boats are about as its a bit selfish, that said, if I moor in the sticks to do a wash someone invariably comes and moors next to me anyway.

 

From the inside I can definately hear it but its no worse than most of others I've heard and we can speak or listen to TV/radio no problem. I don't think any of them are truly silent regardless of how much they cost.

 

You don't say which model you have, mine's the 4500S, the bigger ones are slightly taller because they don't have the flat (boxer type)engine and they do seem slightly noisier.

[andywatson]

We are thinking about having a built in permanant generator, around the 2.8 - 4kw in size.

We do not want to carry a genset on and off the boat all the time and are looking for a cocooned type we can permanantly install.

Does anyone have any experience of these, any reccomendations or horrors to avoid?

Apologies if this subject has been covered before but I could not find it in a forum search.

 

 

 

I've got one made by these guys.

Cocooned, remote start Lister LPW3 engine and about 10 kva.

 

http://www.gmpp.co.uk/marine.htm

 

Not cheap or even common on narrowboats but reliable enough for the navy, industrial and hospital use.