Conundrum

[oldairbear]

Hello good people, ill health has kept me away from the forums for too long. But enough of that I am back on board now. I seek the help of the enlightened on this forum. I know the answer to my question was answered several years ago, old age prevents memory sifting and the forum search facility does not help me;

Recently several boats on a linear mooring were set adrift, all ending in a gaggle at the nearby lock, except one which was overhanging a by wash. All were either untied or the mooring rope slipped off the boat, the boats then being pushed out into the stream. Police called and stated that as the boats had been untied or set loose rather than having the ropes cut then there was no further action to be taken as no criminal damage had occurred, and thus no offences for then to record or follow up!

I recall that this or something similar was debated before with the result or a suggestion that the maritime laws covered such an event making it a criminal offence, I recall someone on here far more enlightened than I was able to quote an act and section. I would dearly love to find this, if for no other reason than to get the local constabulary to accept that setting adrift several boats is not "nothing", thankfully no one was on board any of the boats at the time.

Your help will be gratefully accepted, even if it is to tell me that in my old dotage I imagined the references

Thank you all

[Keeping Up]

You aren't imagining it, I can remember that. I remember it was also stated definitely on uk.rec.waterways that it was an offence under maritime law. Hopefully someone else will come along with chapter and verse soon

[howardang]

Hello good people, ill health has kept me away from the forums for too long. But enough of that I am back on board now. I seek the help of the enlightened on this forum. I know the answer to my question was answered several years ago, old age prevents memory sifting and the forum search facility does not help me;

Recently several boats on a linear mooring were set adrift, all ending in a gaggle at the nearby lock, except one which was overhanging a by wash. All were either untied or the mooring rope slipped off the boat, the boats then being pushed out into the stream. Police called and stated that as the boats had been untied or set loose rather than having the ropes cut then there was no further action to be taken as no criminal damage had occurred, and thus no offences for then to record or follow up!

I recall that this or something similar was debated before with the result or a suggestion that the maritime laws covered such an event making it a criminal offence, I recall someone on here far more enlightened than I was able to quote an act and section. I would dearly love to find this, if for no other reason than to get the local constabulary to accept that setting adrift several boats is not "nothing", thankfully no one was on board any of the boats at the time.

Your help will be gratefully accepted, even if it is to tell me that in my old dotage I imagined the references

Thank you all

 

This may be what you remember

 

 

British Waterways Bye Laws:-

 

No 37

Moorings not to be cut etc.

 

No Person shall turn any vessel adrift upon any canal or shall unnecessaryily cast off, cut loose, or interfere with any mooring or rope or fastening of any vessel.

 

 

Regards

 

Howard

[J R]

This may be what you remember

 

 

British Waterways Bye Laws:-

 

No 37

Moorings not to be cut etc.

 

No Person shall turn any vessel adrift upon any canal or shall unnecessaryily cast off, cut loose, or interfere with any mooring or rope or fastening of any vessel.

 

 

Regards

 

Howard

 

Maybe just as importantly, it would be good to make sure all the boats were made secure and ensure that they were safe and anyone on them, plus make sure that the canal infrastructure was not damaged. IMO letting boats loose is a criminal offense but the feds can't be bothered to follow up and investigate/prosecute.

[BlueStringPudding]

Is it a criminal offence to move someone's bike or car down the road to somewhere the owner hsdn't left it or perhaps couldnt find it or reach it?

Is it a criminal offence to uncouple someone's trailer and allow it to roll down a hill, putting it and others at risk?

Is it s criminal offence to untie a boat and allow the water/wind to move it off putting it and others at risk?

 

Or is it a case of the police are understaffed and so can't be arsed with the paperwork?

 

 

BSP

(Skeptical Daughter of a skeptical copper)

[J R]

Is it a criminal offence to move someone's bike or car down the road to somewhere the owner hsdn't left it or perhaps couldnt find it or reach it?

Is it a criminal offence to uncouple someone's trailer and allow it to roll down a hill, putting it and others at risk?

Is it s criminal offence to untie a boat and allow the water/wind to move it off putting it and others at risk?

 

Or is it a case of the police are understaffed and so can't be arsed with the paperwork?

 

 

BSP

(Skeptical Daughter of a skeptical copper)

 

You put it better than I did!

[twbm]

Is it a criminal offence to move someone's bike or car down the road to somewhere the owner hsdn't left it or perhaps couldnt find it or reach it?

Is it a criminal offence to uncouple someone's trailer and allow it to roll down a hill, putting it and others at risk?

Is it s criminal offence to untie a boat and allow the water/wind to move it off putting it and others at risk?

 

Or is it a case of the police are understaffed and so can't be arsed with the paperwork?

 

 

BSP

(Skeptical Daughter of a skeptical copper)

 

 

Give it a while and then call G4S working under contract to an ex supermarket manager Superintendent with 15 months service. Be prepared to present a business case for police attendance.

 

(Very sceptical ex copper).

[oldairbear]

Thank you good folk for your comments so far, and thank you for the by law, as a start - something to annoy the police with, however, as keeping up says, I am sure that someone found a relevant section of maritime law, at the time it was suggested that quoting said act and section could be checked by the police internally with a force with a river section so it was definitely something stronger than BWs by law, and i would dearly love to find it.

to the comment about securing the boats, i take the point. All boats had been properly secured, whoever did this task took some time doing it, undoing front back and centre ropes of 10 boats. to do so they would have had to have climbed onto some boats in order to undo the ropes. It took us (6 boaters) all morning to get them back on the moorings, it took the police until mid afternoon to come and visit!

[Tony Brooks]

Is it a criminal offence to move someone's bike or car down the road to somewhere the owner hsdn't left it or perhaps couldnt find it or reach it?

Is it a criminal offence to uncouple someone's trailer and allow it to roll down a hill, putting it and others at risk?

Is it s criminal offence to untie a boat and allow the water/wind to move it off putting it and others at risk?

 

Or is it a case of the police are understaffed and so can't be arsed with the paperwork?

 

 

BSP

(Skeptical Daughter of a skeptical copper)

 

 

Exactly.

 

When my boat was cast adrift in Reading perhaps 200 yards from a downstream weir I got exactly the response from TVP as the OP and they would not give me a crime number until I asked to talk to their maritime law specialist and muttered about wrecking and piracy. That got me the number so they had to count it in their stats.

 

However since then a case about a third party surveyor actually on a boat without permission who was assaulted by the boat owner makes me suspect inland boats may not now be fully covered by maritime law.

 

As with so many in authority today one has to make them believe that acting correctly will be less trouble than fobbing you off.

[Keeping Up]

This quote was accredited to you back then Tony:

 

"Some information has recently come to light on United Kingdom recreation sailing that may persuade the authorities to take setting adrift far more seriously.

 

Subsequent reported actions by courts tends to support this. It may also have relevance for any case of damage/theft from the boat.

 

Apparently its a criminal offence under the Merchant Shipping Act 1995 (Section 104) for anyone to board a moored United Kingdom ship without the master's or other authorized persons permission, apart from customs officers and constables.

 

The penalty is a fine of up to £5000. Certain people like marina operatives have implied rights. It would also appear that a United Kingdom ship does include small craft that are unregistered as long as they are owned by a United Kingdom citizen.

 

The reason I have sent this is because when Jenny B was set adrift, Thames Valley Police stated no offence had been committed, and would only give me a crime number when I asked them to contact Kidlington and ask their marine expert.

 

This was just me playing a hunch We know policing is driven by statistics and if 'no crime' has been committed there are no statistics, so no policing. Now we have a way of ensuring the statistics are recorded and when the odd offence comes to court it is dealt with under the correct legislation and penalty band.

 

We need to ensure our boats are secured in such a way that the person has to set foot upon the boat, and then tell the police that the offence was under section 104 of the Merchant Shipping Act.

 

I suspect that a close scrutiny of the said Act may well have something to say about 'endangering the safe navigation' (bandits) etc. I do not like the barrack room lawyer thing, but suspect that some of the lack of action is because there are no statistics to show there is a problem."

[oldairbear]

Keeping Up,

you have just given me some food for thought. at least half the boats untied had been tied off on the boat after the rope had been passed through a mooring ring. Now that means that those responsible had to have trespassed onto the boat in order to undo said ropes, and as owners of the boats would not have given permission for said trespass. I think I might pass back to local constabulary that section and see if it upsets their dinner. reading that section - it does not say you have to know who it was for an offence to have been committed.

Thank you all for your help. I am still interested if someone can come up with any other suggestions to make the local constabulary take interfering with boats as a serious problem and a criminal matter.

[twbm]

Section 104 says:

 

Unauthorised presence on board ship.E+W+S+N.I..

 

Where a United Kingdom ship or a ship registered in any other country is in a port in the United Kingdom and a person who is neither in Her Majesty’s service nor authorised by law to do so—

(a)goes on board the ship without the consent of the master or of any other persons authorised to give it; or .

(b)remains on board the ship after being requested to leave by the master, a constable, an officer authorised by the Secretary of State or an officer of customs and excise, he shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale.

 

You'd have to be clear about the words 'in a port' for the offence to stick. Majority of canal boats clearly aren't.

Having read the act through quickly, I'm not convinced the power to summons offenders (no power of arrest that I could find) lies with the police, but rather the 'officers authorised by the Secretary of State'.

 

BW Byelaw 37 expressly prohibits the untying of vessels, again no power of arrest, £100 fine I think.

[Arthur Brown]

While there is discussion about the legalities, I wonder also if there is a method for defeating the miscreants. Maybe some kind of rock thrown over the river side if the boat and moored with a steel chain or hawser, at least what is cut free will then have to drag it's anchor rather than float away in the breeze.

[Grace and Favour]

While there is discussion about the legalities, I wonder also if there is a method for defeating the miscreants. Maybe some kind of rock thrown over the river side if the boat and moored with a steel chain or hawser, at least what is cut free will then have to drag it's anchor rather than float away in the breeze.

 

That's a fair idea - - a few mud anchors dropped waterside

[Higgs]

That's a fair idea - - a few mud anchors dropped waterside

 

Yes. I have a few that are used to even the ballast, but also had them in mind to use as mud weights for such as those problems above. The weights are the 56lb Avery kind, and a couple should stop the boat being able to drift.

 

How do other people use mud weights for this?

Edited March 31, 2012 by Higgs

[Arthur Brown]

Now the clever bit would be to have a means of mooring just off the bank and getting a keyfob remote to bring the boat to you and only you on command. BUT if it's anchored would it need riding lights?

[oldairbear]

Keep the replies coming -all additions welcome. In regard to powers of arrest, the local constabulary are never around at the same time as the perpetrators so no one is likely to be arrested at the scene. The object of finding legislation is to convince said constabulary that setting boats adrift can be down right dangerous and does require that they get out of mobile metal container (Car) and use the two apendages we all have at the lower end of our bodies (Legs)and take a stroll along the river/canal bank occassionally to safeguard the boats moored quite legally alongside. If nothing else, going by BWs Adverts it will save them money as well, they can cancel their gym membership!!

[Arthur Brown]

The police will only want to find a crime that has a solution anything else is bad for achieving their targets.

 

Decent CCTV with all the correct recorders still will not record enough for a conviction and would an infarction against a BW By-law justify a police arrest?

 

If you have the boat out of the water then an additional rudder tube would allow the concealed fitting of a mud anchor.

[oldairbear]

I take the point about police arrest for a byelaw offence being a sledge hammer to crack a nut. However, the police oath of allegence carries a line about prevention as well as detection. A mooring site where boats are continually targeted by mischief is hardly a mooring site where anyone would by choice wish to moor their boat. Why should that happen. Why should boaters be prevented from mooring in a nice area because those for what ever reason continually cause a nuisance. Surely left unchecked small happenings become big happenings?

[Martin Megson]

As a newbie I am a little worried about the boat being set adrift while I'm moored. Either through someone else's stupidity or my carelessness. I'm thinking of using one of those personal attack alarms which is operated by a pull string. If I attach it to the boat and then attach the pull string to the bank (with a reasonable amount of slack) the alarm should trigger if the boat drifts from the bank.

Has anyone tried this?

[Grace and Favour]

As a newbie I am a little worried about the boat being set adrift while I'm moored. Either through someone else's stupidity or my carelessness. I'm thinking of using one of those personal attack alarms which is operated by a pull string. If I attach it to the boat and then attach the pull string to the bank (with a reasonable amount of slack) the alarm should trigger if the boat drifts from the bank.

Has anyone tried this?

 

Now that's an idea I haven't come across before . . . though a cheaper, and a method guaranteed to grab your attention even quicker, would be to tie the pull string to one of your (personal) appendages . . . . . No matter what time of day - or night - - you will be the very first to notice Mr Bunbury's impending departure

[DeanS]

I'm thinking of using one of those personal attack alarms which is operated by a pull string. If I attach it to the boat and then attach the pull string to the bank (with a reasonable amount of slack) the alarm should trigger if the boat drifts from the bank.

Has anyone tried this?

 

 

I dont think the string will be strong enough to keep the boat tied to the bank.

[Rebotco]

As a newbie I am a little worried about the boat being set adrift while I'm moored. Either through someone else's stupidity or my carelessness. I'm thinking of using one of those personal attack alarms which is operated by a pull string. If I attach it to the boat and then attach the pull string to the bank (with a reasonable amount of slack) the alarm should trigger if the boat drifts from the bank.

Has anyone tried this?

 

May I suggest you try strong elastic, rather than string?

That will not only warn you, but also promptly return you to your mooring spot!

[cl@rkey]

As a newbie I am a little worried about the boat being set adrift while I'm moored. Either through someone else's stupidity or my carelessness. I'm thinking of using one of those personal attack alarms which is operated by a pull string. If I attach it to the boat and then attach the pull string to the bank (with a reasonable amount of slack) the alarm should trigger if the boat drifts from the bank.

Has anyone tried this?

Great idea!

 

How about fitting proximity sensors? You could have one on the side of the hull, and one on the bottom (when at risk of grounding). A set of customisable alarms could play dependent upon the situation. For example, when being cast adrift you could have "Sailing - Rod Stewart", and when in shallow waters "Stuck on You - Lionel Ritchie"

 

Now all we need is some backing. :-)

[Roger Gunkel]

Great idea!

 

How about fitting proximity sensors? You could have one on the side of the hull, and one on the bottom (when at risk of grounding). A set of customisable alarms could play dependent upon the situation. For example, when being cast adrift you could have "Sailing - Rod Stewart", and when in shallow waters "Stuck on You - Lionel Ritchie"

 

Now all we need is some backing. :-)

 

How about 'Close to You- Carpenters, for a near miss

Reelin' and a Rockin' - Chuck Berry, rough water warning

Isn't She Lovely- Stevie Wonder, New boat alert

 

Roger