Is the RYA Helmsman Training worth it? Or better to jump straight in? (metaphorically)

[cl@rkey]

Hi folks!

 

Long-time lurker, first-time poster.

 

I did a search for this topic, but no joy. So apologies if this has been asked before.

 

I'm thinking about hiring at some point soon, and was wondering about whether to invest in the Helmsman Training course beforehand. Ideally I'd like to hear from those who, like me, had no previous experience of narrowboating, planned to be a single-hander, and did this course before doing anything else.

 

With hindsight, was this money you wished you'd saved?

 

All advice much appreciated.

[john6767]

Been discussed on here before and opinion seems divided on the value. Hard to see what you loose by doing it though.

 

One point, you talk about single handing and hiring. There are few hire companies that will hire to a single hander, so you will probably have to search a bit to find one, and I would have though that having done the course would give a hire company more confidence in hiring to you, if there were prepared to entertain it in the first place. Many would be a simple no, as their insurance would not allow it.

[debbifiggy]

Hi folks!

 

Long-time lurker, first-time poster.

 

I did a search for this topic, but no joy. So apologies if this has been asked before.

 

I'm thinking about hiring at some point soon, and was wondering about whether to invest in the Helmsman Training course beforehand. Ideally I'd like to hear from those who, like me, had no previous experience of narrowboating, planned to be a single-hander, and did this course before doing anything else.

 

With hindsight, was this money you wished you'd saved?

 

All advice much appreciated.

 

Even with quite a few years of boating experience before doing the RYA course I found it useful (I had to do the course for work). There's always something to learn. If new to boating I would thorough recommend it for your own safety, confidence and enjoyment. Well worth while.

D

D

[Naughty Cal]

Been discussed on here before and opinion seems divided on the value. Hard to see what you loose by doing it though.

 

One point, you talk about single handing and hiring. There are few hire companies that will hire to a single hander, so you will probably have to search a bit to find one, and I would have though that having done the course would give a hire company more confidence in hiring to you, if there were prepared to entertain it in the first place. Many would be a simple no, as their insurance would not allow it.

 

A decent wad of your hard earned cash?

[Grace and Favour]

Cl@rkey:

 

I can only share with you my experience . . .

 

Having enjoyed five narrowboat holidays - (some of 3 weeks duration) - we eventually bought our own boat

 

I thought it would be advisable to take the Helmsman's Course, and SWMBO and I decided upon the two day course (to include river-work)

 

I learnt SO much - and am so much better an helmsman now - it has made us safer, and wiser, and the boat much easier and enjoyable.

 

(I'd suggest you also seek an instructor by recommendation - don't just go for the cheapest )

 

 

 

EDITED to add: And I am the first to appreciate that I still have a great deal to learn - - that experience will teach me - - -

But the Course is a great place to start

Edited March 1, 2012 by Grace & Favour

[David Schweizer]

Been discussed on here before and opinion seems divided on the value. Hard to see what you loose by doing it though.

 

One point, you talk about single handing and hiring. There are few hire companies that will hire to a single hander, so you will probably have to search a bit to find one, and I would have though that having done the course would give a hire company more confidence in hiring to you, if there were prepared to entertain it in the first place. Many would be a simple no, as their insurance would not allow it.

Some Hire Companies also run the RYA Helmsman's course, so it might be worth contacting a few of them to find out. One Hire Company which I know runs the course is Union Canal Carriers at Braunston, they also have some smaller boats which would be suitable for a single person hire.

Edited March 1, 2012 by David Schweizer

[cl@rkey]

Some Hire Companies also run the RYA Helmsman's course, so it might be worth contacting a few of them to find out. One Hire Company which I know runs the course is Union Canal Carriers at Braunston, they also have some smaller boats which would be suitable for a single person hire.

 

Wow, this forum is fast! Thanks for the replies so far.

 

David, that sounds ideal. It's good to know there is a place for single-handers to gain experience.

[Ray T]

Wow, this forum is fast! Thanks for the replies so far.

 

David, that sounds ideal. It's good to know there is a place for single-handers to gain experience.

 

 

Blowing my own trumpet here, but even though I have a Yachtmaster Offshore Certificate of Competence I found the RYA Inland Helmsman's course useful - you're never too old to learn.

[sheriff]

find a veteran solo boater and your learn to your delight..you could go to the area you wish to travel on.beg/borrow a windlass and ask at locks if you could help...look and learn...or chat to people,and you may find some boaters able to show or explain things...lots of people jump straight in..volunteer to be crew for a day.

 

my first words from a chap who does boating everyday mostly.."easy does it"..I crusie all hours all over the place in all conditions,and have learned far more than any course because its not possible to put all there is to learn in a course....safety first,then go for it..ask lot of question from as many boaters you can talk too..do the course if you like,your get there in the end.ive seen people do some stupid things even after doing a course..

 

 

When I did my first tidal river.. the advice from a solo boater who has done the trent for 30 yrs just kept repeating its self over and over,whilst in the lock waiting to go out..of course your learning needs to be done when things are in your favour in the first instances.then you build confidence.....also there are some great female solo boaters out there to learn from of all ages,who are some times better to learn from..enjoy yourself and before long your find a way which you like......go for it..."easy does it" saftey first.

[Naughty Cal]

Blowing my own trumpet here, but even though I have a Yachtmaster Offshore Certificate of Competence I found the RYA Inland Helmsman's course useful - you're never too old to learn.

 

You cant buy experience. You can do all the courses you like but you need to get out there and put the theory into practice.

 

(BTW that wasnt a dig at you Ray. We are currently putting in the hours to do the Yachtmaster Coastal CoC so are fully aware of the requirements )

[Ray T]

You cant buy experience. You can do all the courses you like but you need to get out there and put the theory into practice.

 

(BTW that wasnt a dig at you Ray. We are currently putting in the hours to do the Yachtmaster Coastal CoC so are fully aware of the requirements )

 

 

What you say about thoery and practice is true, but how do you know what the theory is if you haven't had any training?

 

Mrs T teaches drivers CPC to truckers. The majority think they don't need any training because they have been doing the job for years, yet nearly all who attended a recent course did not know the drivers hours and tachograph regulations and when they told her what they did in a working day, to a man they were all breaking the law. These are people who say they have read the regulations, but their theory has not translated into good practice.

 

It is like driving on the roads, we have all done it for years but developed bad habits which, if we took our test now could cause us to fail.

[David Schweizer]

You cant buy experience. You can do all the courses you like but you need to get out there and put the theory into practice.

 

(BTW that wasnt a dig at you Ray. We are currently putting in the hours to do the Yachtmaster Coastal CoC so are fully aware of the requirements )

 

I started boating in the mid 1960's on a Small Northwich Motor under the guidance of an ex-working boatman. Thirty two years later I undertook the Board of Trade Boatmaster's Licence training and captained a Trip Boat for several years. Fifteen years ago I bought my own narrowboat, and have been cruising regularly since then

 

How many Brownie points do I get for all that?

Edited March 1, 2012 by David Schweizer

[Ray T]

Not so sure about "Brownie" points but have a greenie.

[Richard10002]

Blowing my own trumpet here, but even though I have a Yachtmaster Offshore Certificate of Competence I found the RYA Inland Helmsman's course useful - you're never too old to learn.

 

+1

 

Definitely worth doing. We are going to do it again when the weather gets warmer..... More as a refresher for Janet, but I have no doubt there will be some things I've forgotten, or am yet to learn.

[cl@rkey]

Definitely worth doing. We are going to do it again when the weather gets warmer..... More as a refresher for Janet, but I have no doubt there will be some things I've forgotten, or am yet to learn.

 

After completing the course, don't you get a "Here's what we've covered" type of booklet? You know, something you could read later to refresh your memory?

[Naughty Cal]

After completing the course, don't you get a "Here's what we've covered" type of booklet? You know, something you could read later to refresh your memory?

 

How would they wangle more money out of you if they did that?

 

What you say about thoery and practice is true, but how do you know what the theory is if you haven't had any training?

 

Mrs T teaches drivers CPC to truckers. The majority think they don't need any training because they have been doing the job for years, yet nearly all who attended a recent course did not know the drivers hours and tachograph regulations and when they told her what they did in a working day, to a man they were all breaking the law. These are people who say they have read the regulations, but their theory has not translated into good practice.

 

It is like driving on the roads, we have all done it for years but developed bad habits which, if we took our test now could cause us to fail.

 

Exactly.

 

So why bother with a basic course for the inland waterways, when there is no requirement to do so and in all likelihood you will only find your own different way of doing things anyway which will bear little resemblence to what you were shown in the first place.

[Grace and Favour]

After completing the course, don't you get a "Here's what we've covered" type of booklet? You know, something you could read later to refresh your memory?

 

Our instructor gave us a copy of the RYA Handbook, that covers everything, - you could even teach yourself everything, of course, (which is what the redoubtable Phylis is suggesting) - but you'll appreciate that Phylis spends most of her time on choppy water in a turbo-charged yoghurt pot.

 

I still think the two days I spent on the course was invaluable - but everyone to their own (though I'm obviously not as naturally gifted as Phylis - and our boat weighs 35 tonnes - so I suspect slightly different techniques may be involved)

Edited March 1, 2012 by Grace & Favour

[Naughty Cal]

Our instructor gave us a copy of the RYA Handbook, that covers everything, - you could even teach yourself everything, of course, (which is what the redoubtable Phylis is suggesting) - but you'll appreciate that Phylis spends most of her time on choppy water in a turbo-charged yoghurt pot.

 

I still think the two days I spent on the course was invaluable - but everyone to their own (though I'm obviously not as naturally gifted as Phylis - and our boat weighs 35 tonnes - so I suspect slightly different techniques may be involved)

 

It isnt about being naturally gifted, everybody has to start somewhere. A lot will no doubt start by hiring a boat, but to go on a training course before hiring a boat seems a little bit excessive. After you have hired for a week you may never want to go on a boat again. Hore a boat and get the yard staff to show you the basics. Most hore companies are only too happy to give enough tuition to make a weeks break enjoyable and safe without the need to spend hundreds on a course you may well never need again.

 

Boating is supposed to be about enjoying yourself not training, training and then more training.

[Grace and Favour]

Oh Phylis - - - you really will have to resist the temptation to 'bite' so readily

[cl@rkey]

It isnt about being naturally gifted, everybody has to start somewhere. A lot will no doubt start by hiring a boat, but to go on a training course before hiring a boat seems a little bit excessive. After you have hired for a week you may never want to go on a boat again. Hore a boat and get the yard staff to show you the basics. Most hore companies are only too happy to give enough tuition to make a weeks break enjoyable and safe without the need to spend hundreds on a course you may well never need again.

 

Boating is supposed to be about enjoying yourself not training, training and then more training.

 

I understand what you're saying, Phylis, but I'd like to go straight into single-handing. I think that would be quite a leap for a novice. A combined YHA course and holiday, like David described, is probably the best solution. Long term, I'm hoping to become a liveaboard (already put myself on the waiting list for a residential mooring) and so I really need to know if I can both enjoy it and hack it.

 

I reckon both, but I need to know for sure. Safely.

[Richard10002]

After completing the course, don't you get a "Here's what we've covered" type of booklet? You know, something you could read later to refresh your memory?

 

Probably... Not sure where it is. It was 6 years ago

 

Doing the course will definitely be handy for Janet. I'd probably suggest that she did all the helming/skippering during the course. She wouldn't get much out of reading a book.

 

I don't really need to do the course. I've sailed on a variety of Merchant Ships as an officer, sailed around 20,000 miles+ on a variety of yachts, and did the Trent and Mersey from Barton Turn on our delivery trip to Stretford in October. However, I'm glad I did the course in 2006. It taught me a few things about boat handling that I didn't know, and stood me in good stead for the delivery last year. Still have trouble reversing, and manouevering in the wind

 

From what I can glean, the OP is a complete novice, who is considering a single handed hire. If he can show an IWHC, he will have more chance of being allowed to hire single handed, and will be on less of a learning curve during his holiday.

 

I think the courses cost about £100 per day. Probably not much more than the per day hire cost, if single handed. I think you can do the course in a day, but more relaxed if spread over 2 days.

[cl@rkey]

From what I can glean, the OP is a complete novice, who is considering a single handed hire. If he can show an IWHC, he will have more chance of being allowed to hire single handed, and will be on less of a learning curve during his holiday.

 

I think the courses cost about £100 per day. Probably not much more than the per day hire cost, if single handed. I think you can do the course in a day, but more relaxed if spread over 2 days.

 

The more I hear from both yourself and Grace & Favour, the more I realise that this is not only a good idea, but probably my best/only viable option. Thanks for the input, I really appreciate it.

 

The course that incorporates river training is the one I'd opt for.

[kitman]

What's the ticket price for a RYA Helmsman's course nowadays? Where I used to work they charged about £120.00, that was 6/7 years ago. From memory you used to get a small discount off your boat insurance when you've got the cert, not sure if that is still the case?

 

It's a good course if you want some pointers, but then again most boaters can't wait to give you the benefit of there knowlegde for free.

 

Wherever you get the knowledge on 'handling' I would definately also concentrate on safety aspects pertaining to steering and behaving on and around the boat. Because you can come a cropper if you are not forwarned, and by 'come a cropper' I'm refering to some of the gruesome canal injuries and fatalities that have already happened in past years.

 

If anyone reading this is a total newbie I would reccomend you do the course, because the instructors will be used to people not being able to steer properly, which is how you will be if you never 'dun it' before.

[cl@rkey]

What's the ticket price for a RYA Helmsman's course nowadays? Where I used to work they charged about £120.00, that was 6/7 years ago.

 

Looks like the going rate is £150/£160 at the places I looked at so far.

 

ETA: £95 at a place in Brum. Phew! The quote above was based in Bucks... and they're making fast bucks by the sound of it!

Edited March 1, 2012 by cl@rkey

[Naughty Cal]

Looks like the going rate is £150/£160 at the places I looked at so far.

 

ETA: £95 at a place in Brum. Phew! The quote above was based in Bucks... and they're making fast bucks by the sound of it!

 

Is the place in Brum £95 per person and they expect more than one by any chance?