Re-Painting thoughts

[nb maggie]

NB Maggie will soon needs a re-paint. Not much rust or other attention (just one 'scabby bit') where the old radio ariel was, she mainly needs painting because the finish has gone.

 

What I am trying to work out is how much I should budget for if I was going to get a boat painter out to paint her. Magie is curently three colours (All green with red side panels, with the side panels surrounded with a gold stripe) and 43ft long.

 

I don't want to waste someones time gettin them to come and look at the boat to find that its too expensive.

 

But then again most amateur painted boats in fancier colour schemes don't look that good. (lines not that straight, some paint bleed between colours etc)

 

So my other thought is to do it myself but to drop the colour scheme and just do for a single colour (Green) which would also be easy to maintain and then pop on a few transfers.

 

I have also noted that since having the solid fuel fire fitted last year that the paint on the side below the chimey has lost its finish much worse than anywhere else I suspect due to rain picking up chemicals from the smoke/ash. Has any one else noticed this ? If this is common, it would put me off an expensive professional re-paint.

 

Finally if I do it myself whcih paint - Marine paint, some other modern paint or just good old Dulux.

[charles123]

NB Maggie will soon needs a re-paint. Not much rust or other attention (just one 'scabby bit') where the old radio ariel was, she mainly needs painting because the finish has gone.

 

What I am trying to work out is how much I should budget for if I was going to get a boat painter out to paint her. Magie is curently three colours (All green with red side panels, with the side panels surrounded with a gold stripe) and 43ft long.

 

I don't want to waste someones time gettin them to come and look at the boat to find that its too expensive.

 

But then again most amateur painted boats in fancier colour schemes don't look that good. (lines not that straight, some paint bleed between colours etc)

 

So my other thought is to do it myself but to drop the colour scheme and just do for a single colour (Green) which would also be easy to maintain and then pop on a few transfers.

 

I have also noted that since having the solid fuel fire fitted last year that the paint on the side below the chimey has lost its finish much worse than anywhere else I suspect due to rain picking up chemicals from the smoke/ash. Has any one else noticed this ? If this is common, it would put me off an expensive professional re-paint.

 

Finally if I do it myself whcih paint - Marine paint, some other modern paint or just good old Dulux.

 

 

why not spend a little time searching the archives, I am sure you will find good guidance there?

[bottle]

Hi

 

You say the finish has gone, have you thought of cutting back the paint (T-Cut) and repolishing, lot of work but may be cheaper.

[TeeELL]

Neil,

based upon the cost of having my boat done (which included rubbing down to bare metal to achieve a good final finish could could pay about £3-3.5K. A great deal of money but, if looked after (regularly cleaned and waxed) could/should last up to 10 years. I daresay that if you paint it yourself 'Dulux' would suffice but the marine paints are probably better suited to the environment (but I am no expert). Ask yourself what you seek to achieve - I wanted my boat to look good and stand out amongst the red and green boats so I forkrd out for a professional job.

[DHutch]

Emilyanne is done in the same colour scheme, Green, with red pannels and yellow boarders with inwards curving bits at the corners.

- We did the roof last year, and plan to the sides this year.

- And its planed to get my sister to put the roses back on, possable with clevett doing the two castles.

 

Have a look at load of past threads. Diffrent people have diffrent opinions on what is sensable paint to use, and how to applie it, what preperation to do it.

 

For my ownself, as i have said multiple times, we use two-part polyerothene paint from leighs (bolton)

- Its not cheap, and its a bit of a bugger to use. But the paint job on her now 6/7years old, and athough shes a little matt and slightly scuffed in places is holding up very well indeed.

- On the whole cabin (roof and sides down to gunnel) theres just one area about 2.5*4inchs in size down near then gunnel, and under one mushroom that shows any sign rusting at all.

- But the whole of the rest of the boat is 100% rust free, which for 6/7 years of britsh weather and hard use is not bad! The foredeck's acctually starting to ware thought to the undercoat!

 

Also, its very common indeed to see some disscolouration around a well used stove pipe.

 

 

 

Daniel

[wrigglefingers]

A marina down by 'ere quoted £6k+ to do my 58' but that included grit-blasting. They would've done the re-blacking and arranged the sign-writing for cost as part of the deal. I said not to worry as there's a very long flight of locks to get through between me and them!

 

Jill

[Pirate]

Do most folk brush paint, spray or use a roller for the best finish?

[Alec Gatherer]

Hello nb Maggie

I am impressed with the paint I am using on The Life of Riley; not because of the superb finish, 'cos it ain't got one of those, but because it looks more than reasonable, was a lot lower priced than the top-notch boat paints, and, most importantly, is the very devil to get off!

Due to a bit of overenthusiastic grit blasting, followed by being taken to court for not paying the boatyard to gritblast the newly-painted cabin as well as the hull I had asked them to do, I had a damaged paint finish for several months whilst waiting to see if it was needed as "evidence". Once that was settled (a total waste of time for all concerned, even me although I won) I addressed the question of remedying the cabin paint, and needed to come back to bare metal. Well, this paint resisted all but the most vigorous attacks from a DA sander. The parts still existing from the first paint 4 yrs ago still look good and have weathered well.

It's K-type one-pack polyurethane from H. Marcel Guest of Manchester. It has cost me £300 for enough primer and topcoat to do a 57ft trad in a two-colour scheme with 1" coachlines - I'll try to get a piccie up.

[nbtafelberg]

We used Craftmaster paint on Tafelberg. She looks fantastic, that was a year ago and she STILL looks fantastic

 

Although we have loads of roses and castles (done by me) and signwriting its all painted and looks much better than stickers (and now for the sticker vs painted argument).

[Wobbly Dick]

Hi folks!

 

I know I will have to paint my boat soon, but still not convinced that I need to spend a furtune on Marine Paint!

 

I painted a garage door, with exterior gloss in 1991. It does get a very bit of abuse, maybe not as much as a boat, but it is still as good as new! Well nearly

 

Paints are produced to such high standards now. I can't believe that there isn't a cheaper solution, and just as good, produced for exterior paintwork by other compainies?

 

 

abit! I was thinking of having vinyl letters cut for my name. What do you think?

[nbtafelberg]

Have a look at

 

http://www.canaljunction.com/craftmasters/

[DHutch]

Do most folk brush paint, spray or use a roller for the best finish?

In the past my grandad used a brush for all of it, but this time we used the 4" foam rollers for the cabin.

- This seams to be the most common way, and was certanly a lot quicker, as well as (imo) leaving a better finish.

 

 

I am impressed with the paint I am using on The Life of Riley; not because of the superb finish, 'cos it ain't got one of those, but because it looks more than reasonable, was a lot lower priced than the top-notch boat paints, and, most importantly, is the very devil to get off!

 

It's K-type one-pack polyurethane from H. Marcel Guest of Manchester. It has cost me £300 for enough primer and topcoat to do a 57ft trad in a two-colour scheme with 1" coachlines - I'll try to get a piccie up.

Yeah, thats exactly the same as us.

- It never has that amazing 'showroof finish' but look very reasonable, and LASTs like theres no tomorrow!

 

IM sure just about everyone on here has heard about our engine room roof. But its a good story...

- Origainaly the funnel (attached to the removerable section of engineroom roof) used to fold forwards fro bridges, with a strong hinge at the front.

- This ment that when the funnel had its altercation with a low pipe bridge it made a bit of a mess. Lucky it mearly snaped the catched, bending the removeable section of the roof up about 30degrees at the front!

- Then at the next boat yard, with aid of the yard van, and 3/4 big lads swinging on the otherend, its was bend back to what was aproxamtly stright, if a little 'S' shaped! It was then used like this for about 2 years, untill it was replaced with the current roof, which allows for the funnel to fold backwards!!

- You may be wondeinf where this is leading. But the remarkable bit is that although this ordeal the paint remainded intack, and still firmly attached to the steel below! Not bad going really!

 

Our whole boat was gritblasted inside and out when new, before being primied within half an hour of gritblasting, and painted with the two-pack polyerothene.

 

 

Daniel

[Moley]

Sorry, can we rewind and recap please.

 

Daniel: you said you used two-pack polyurethane and it was a bugger to apply (quote), and you've said before that it needs 3 people working in unison.

 

Alec: What's this one-pack K-type polyurethane, how is it used, and do you have contact details or a website for these Guest folks? (Sorry, not tried Googling yet).

 

and Wobbly, the vinyl versus painted bit has been done here:

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=4251

Edited May 3, 2006 by Moley

[Maffi]

(and now for the sticker vs painted argument).

 

Like everything else it's a choice. The choice you make is right for you, but not so for everyone.

[DHutch]

Sorry, can we rewind and recap please.

- Daniel: you said you used two-pack polyurethane and it was a bugger to apply (quote), and you've said before that it needs 3 people working in unison.

Yeah. Im sure you could do it on your own if you really wanted. Certainly you could do a touch-up job single handedly.

- I spent a week on my own rubbing down, and prepairing the few small areas of rust, during which time i mixed up a couple of batches of the (epoxyaluminum) primer, and then a small mix of under coat at the end.

- But yes, if your painting whole roof/cabin by far the best way is to have two/three of your working on it at a time. You would certainly struggle to keep a wet-edge if your where walking on you own!

 

To save my rewriting it again, See this thread.

 

 

Daniel

Edited May 3, 2006 by dhutch

[Alec Gatherer]

Alec: What's this one-pack K-type polyurethane, how is it used, and do you have contact details or a website for these Guest folks? (Sorry, not tried Googling yet).

Here you are Moley.

www.h-marcel-guest.com

They are a big small paint manufacturer based about 2 miles from my hovel in Manchester.

The K-type one-pack is nothing much more than a smartarsed fleet enamel. It can be brushed or sprayed, it thins with white spirit, and acts more or less like coach enamel. I find it quite easy to modify for a range of temperatures just using white spirit, and it keeps a wet edge when you're used to it. And boy is it tough!

I have seen boats painted with Phil Speight's Craftmaster paint and it's the poodle's noodles. Were I aiming for a superlative finish then I would use Craftmaster without doubt. But I was aiming for a budget finish, appearance, longevity, and effective protection all vying for supremacy.

Should it be inconvenient for prospective users of Marcel Guest to visit the factory, I would be pleased to liaise; as I say, it's minutes away. I always use their paint for my vehicle refinishing. Their cellulose is brill, and if you are OK with black, it's £40-00 per 5 litres!

[Chris Lingwood]

A strange thing has happened on my boat. The roof pain has started peeling off. Only in a few patches but it needs sorting. It looks like the top coat has adhered to the red oxide but they have both just peeled up, it looks a bit like orange peel. I didn't paint it but I'll probably just sand the area down a bit and repaint it with the stuff they used (got some left over) so it would be good to know where they went wrong!

[Alec Gatherer]

A strange thing has happened on my boat. The roof pain has started peeling off. Only in a few patches but it needs sorting. It looks like the top coat has adhered to the red oxide but they have both just peeled up, it looks a bit like orange peel. I didn't paint it but I'll probably just sand the area down a bit and repaint it with the stuff they used (got some left over) so it would be good to know where they went wrong!

Bane of my life in car refinishing is silicone in its various guises. Some polishes, some lubricant sprays, sometimes no known cause, but it buggers paint adhesion something chronic.

My route to rooftop repair would be much as you suggest:

Abrade back to bare metal; clean with spirit wipe; phosphoric acid; Bonda Rust Primer; undercoat; top coat.

If this fails in the same way, then repeat but clean with anti-silicone, and add drop of anti-silicone additive to paint, especially if the telltale dimples appear in the finish the first time.

Aln alternative cause: could this be the mill scale effect?

[Chris Lingwood]

Bane of my life in car refinishing is silicone in its various guises. Some polishes, some lubricant sprays, sometimes no known cause, but it buggers paint adhesion something chronic.

My route to rooftop repair would be much as you suggest:

Abrade back to bare metal; clean with spirit wipe; phosphoric acid; Bonda Rust Primer; undercoat; top coat.

If this fails in the same way, then repeat but clean with anti-silicone, and add drop of anti-silicone additive to paint, especially if the telltale dimples appear in the finish the first time.

Aln alternative cause: could this be the mill scale effect?

At 34 years old I doubt its mill scale

 

Another thing is that the metal underneath doesn't appear to have rusted at all...it looks galavanised...which seams strange.

 

The whole roof needs repainting anyway so its not a huge hardship. Its got lots of chips on it where I think a chain got dropped on it while it was being lifted. And its faded quite badly too.

[nb maggie]

The hand rails on "Maggie" constantly have flaking paint. When I rubbed them down they are galvenised or look similar. Like scafolding, only a bit smaller. Perhpas they have an alloy coating of some sort. I reckon the boat builder (RS Narrowboats) got hold of some galvenised pipe and used it for the hand rails. So your roof may have some other similar history. I am told by paint experts that suitable undercoat can be obtained which will key in to the galvenised rails.

[DHutch]

It may well be epoxy-aluminum your seeing on your boat.

- This what emilyanne is primed with, and it does look simular to galvaised steel.

- Or as neil says i could be that they simply used what was laying around, and that happen to be zinc'ed?

 

 

Daniel

[Alec Gatherer]

OK. When I said " abrade back to bare metal" I didn't mean it. What I meant of course was "Don't abrade back to bare metal". The suspected presence of zinc is the reason for this about-face. It's ghastly stuff. You don't abrade it without the appropriate precautions, and I'm not talking about a 99p mickey mouse face mask, I'm talking space suit.

Technically don't do it at all, but if you are going to do it, use something like a PEX 400 with dust extraction, wear the best mask you can get, do it on a windy day, and preferably get someone else to use the sander.

There are some good special metals primers around, water-based usually. Finnigans do one that works well on small areas.

[4mph]

The hand rails on "Maggie" constantly have flaking paint. When I rubbed them down they are galvenised or look similar. Like scafolding, only a bit smaller. Perhpas they have an alloy coating of some sort. I reckon the boat builder (RS Narrowboats) got hold of some galvenised pipe and used it for the hand rails. So your roof may have some other similar history. I am told by paint experts that suitable undercoat can be obtained which will key in to the galvenised rails.

My guess is that they have used galvanised conduit as used in elecrical installations the two most popular diameters for this are 20 / 25mm , sorry don't know anything about paint .