Dutch Tug Boats

[JDR]

I've been looking at Dutch tugs on the following site (amongst others) http://www.fikkers.nl/ned/schepen/type/sleepboten/ and increasingly seeing boats that I would seriously consider buying at prices that are extremely low compared to boats in the UK.

I keep asking myself why are boats that appear superficially at least to be in extremely good condition so cheap? What is the life expectancy of the average tug's hull? I've talked to plenty of Tjalk owners on the Thames with 100 year old boats in rude health. Are the tugs generally as well built?

 

The boat Riena has been posted here before http://www.fikkers.nl/ned/schepen/info/9014/ and may now be sold, but at 25,000 euros

that is incredible value for such a beautiful boat. The engine is a DAF 575 so obviously not going to sup diesel like a narrowboat.

Do you have to pay import duty if you bring one of these to the UK and are more importantly are they capable of a sea crossing?

 

Still at the idle dreaming stage really, just weighing up the pros and cons of a Dutch tug (Don't care about being limited to broad waterways north or south for the right boat).What are they like to own on a day to day basis, how much would cranage/slippage cost

compared to a narrowboat? Does anybody else have any direct experience or just share my lust for Sleepboten?

[Boaty Jo]

We lived in Zwartsluis (on and off) for a couple of years. They host, in annual rotation with other towns, Sleepbootdag with perhaps 200 tugs of all shapes and sizes. If you like tugs you'll find these events fascinating.

This link is from 2010 but may give you an idea. Your browser should be able to translate it for you - unless you speak Dutch

 

There's quite a lot of info and plenty of photos to whet your appetite. http://www.sleepbootdagen.com/index.php?page=home

Looks like they may be returning to Zwartsluis this year - possibly May.

 

A DAF 575 is a marinised 'truck-type' engine and you'll find lots of them in older barges. Many tugs I saw had big old slow revving 'tickety tickety' engines with a lot more character the a DAF.

 

Not owned a tug so can't really comment of their practicality but always watch the draft and air draft for canal travel.

Edited January 5, 2012 by Boaty Jo

[Boatless]

Dominic often has Dutch Tugs for sale http://rugbyboats.co.uk/barges.php it may be an idea to ask him for advice.

 

Dutch boats are always solidly built and sought after,the boat in your link is a beauty , if I could I would buy that right now.

 

 

[Guest]

I would think one disadvantage would be (in terms of space) the main purpose of a vessel like this.

 

They will need a pretty large engine to perform the task they were designed and built for so I would imagine a significant proportion of the internal space would be given up to the engine and the ability to easily access it...

 

Some are verry pretty though I agree...

 

Edited January 5, 2012 by MJG

[The Pipe]

Another place to look for shallow drafted tugs is Germany. Last year I looked at an Elbe tug twin engine and Kort nozzle's.

The German government use this site to dispose of the surplus, http://www.vebeg.de/web/en/verkauf/browse.htm

Interesting dry dock up at the moment.

[Naughty Cal]

We also have a hankering after a tug be it UK or Dutch built. We like the lines and it is only a matter of time I suspect before a boat catches our eye enough for the offer to go in

[bargemast]

We lived in Zwartsluis (on and off) for a couple of years. They host, in annual rotation with other towns, Sleepbootdag with perhaps 200 tugs of all shapes and sizes. If you like tugs you'll find these events fascinating.

This link is from 2010 but may give you an idea. Your browser should be able to translate it for you - unless you speak Dutch

 

There's quite a lot of info and plenty of photos to whet your appetite. http://www.sleepbootdagen.com/index.php?page=home

Looks like they may be returning to Zwartsluis this year - possibly May.

 

A DAF 575 is a marinised 'truck-type' engine and you'll find lots of them in older barges. Many tugs I saw had big old slow revving 'tickety tickety' engines with a lot more character the a DAF.

 

Not owned a tug so can't really comment of their practicality but always watch the draft and air draft for canal travel.

 

 

A DAF 575 isn't always a marinised 'truck-type' engine, but this one is.

 

If they have M after the number, the engine has left the DAF factory as a Marine-engine, Daf engines in general are reliable engines and I've had them in several barges I've owned, and 2 in my actual boat.

 

They are engines that like to work, if they don't work (easy pleasure use) they tend to smoke, which I don't like at all, but apart from that there's nothing wrong with them.

 

De Sleepboot dagen are a great show of a whole lot of beautiful tugs, I used to go there too, there are always some steam tugs present aswell, it's a must for tug-lovers.

 

Cheers,

 

Peter.

[Timleech]

Yes, space and draught are the big issues with tugs. Working Barges were designed to maximise hold space, so generally have parallel & near-vertical sides for the length of the hold with a bit of shape at either end, so lots of room for potential conversion to domestic space.

Tugs are usually 'all shape', so inherently less space within a given length, and in working guise a lot of that space will be taken up with engine.

If you want more living space, you need to go to a bigger tug, & that tends to mean more draught which in turn limits where you can travel inland as well as increasing the cost of slipping or docking.

I like tugs, though

 

Tim

[JDR]

Thanks for all the links, does anybody fancy a bike ride in May? Boaty Jo was your boat moored in the wilds between Wallingford and Abingdon in October last year? Great looking boat if it is the one I'm thinking of (red paint on superstructure? can't remember if it had lee boards or not).After living with a trad engine room with an engine,genset,washing machine,heat exchanger and more all under boards the idea of a dedicated engine room with full access looks like heaven.

[Chris Pink]

Dominic often has Dutch Tugs for sale http://rugbyboats.co.uk/barges.php it may be an idea to ask him for advice.

 

Dutch boats are always solidly built and sought after,the boat in your link is a beauty , if I could I would buy that right now.

 

Given it's on a page with boats costing 3 times that and more there will be a reason it's cheap.

 

Also to bear in mind in these days; big engine much fuel

[Speedwheel]

Thanks for all the links, does anybody fancy a bike ride in May? Boaty Jo was your boat moored in the wilds between Wallingford and Abingdon in October last year? Great looking boat if it is the one I'm thinking of (red paint on superstructure? can't remember if it had lee boards or not).After living with a trad engine room with an engine,genset,washing machine,heat exchanger and more all under boards the idea of a dedicated engine room with full access looks like heaven.

 

One for you here Tim - http://www.fikkers.nl/ned/schepen/info/9002/

[JDR]

Given it's on a page with boats costing 3 times that and more there will be a reason it's cheap.

 

Also to bear in mind in these days; big engine much fuel

I agree, that boat is too good to be true.On the same page is a similar tug at 46k Euros which still looks a good deal.I know nothing about the market in these boats so don't know what affects price.Could the fact that a 1930 boat has been re-engined with a modern diesel make it cheaper?I would suspect a new engine may be needed or major replating work for that money.

[Timleech]

One for you here Tim - http://www.fikkers.nl/ned/schepen/info/9002/

 

Seen that one, nice but waaay too much money. I just want a suitable shell for my Sabb semi

 

As if I don't have enough to do....

 

Tim

[JDR]

Tim-was it you that posted a picture recently of a tug in a dry dock, halfway through what looked like an epic wrestling match with a propellor? Was that your boat or a tug you were working on? (apologies in advance if I am wrong about the photo).Cheer John

[bargemast]

I agree, that boat is too good to be true.On the same page is a similar tug at 46k Euros which still looks a good deal.I know nothing about the market in these boats so don't know what affects price.Could the fact that a 1930 boat has been re-engined with a modern diesel make it cheaper?I would suspect a new engine may be needed or major replating work for that money.

 

 

In general tugs with an old slow running engine in perfect running order (and or more originally looking ones) will fetch more money, but they are normally in tugs with more draught and because of that not very well adapted for use on most of the wide beam canals, far from ideal on K & A and G-U.

 

If you don't trust the lower price, it's easy enough to contact the brokers, and ask for the last hull report, and anything else you would like to know.

 

This broker is a well established Dutch broker, that (I don't think) will lie to you, as he doesn't want bad publicity.

 

Peter.

[Timleech]

Tim-was it you that posted a picture recently of a tug in a dry dock, halfway through what looked like an epic wrestling match with a propellor? Was that your boat or a tug you were working on? (apologies in advance if I am wrong about the photo).Cheer John

 

Yes and Yes. (me and mine).

 

Tim

[Speedwheel]

Yes and Yes. (me and mine).

 

Tim

Time to post this again

 

How is the engine change coming on? Any pics?

 

Edited January 5, 2012 by Speedwheel

[Timleech]

 

 

How is the engine change coming on? Any pics?

 

 

 

 

Tim

[bargemast]

 

 

Tim

 

 

One picture says more than many words.

 

Peter.

[Steilsteven]

In general tugs with an old slow running engine in perfect running order (and or more originally looking ones) will fetch more money, but they are normally in tugs with more draught and because of that not very well adapted for use on most of the wide beam canals, far from ideal on K & A and G-U.

 

If you don't trust the lower price, it's easy enough to contact the brokers, and ask for the last hull report, and anything else you would like to know.

 

This broker is a well established Dutch broker, that (I don't think) will lie to you, as he doesn't want bad publicity.

 

Peter.

 

Before contemplating buying a vessel in the Netherlands, obtain a copy of The Barge Buyers Handbook from Dba www.barges.org, apart from being a thoroughly interesting read, it gives all the information you will need to know.

Buying in the Netherlands is very different to here and more akin to buying a house.Basically, when striking a deal with the seller and having viewed the boat, a price is agreed on what you've seen, a deposit is paid and an agreement is drawn up. In the agreement you will have stated the minimum hull thickness that you expect ( usually 4mm for barges, tugs might be expected to have thicker plating I don't know )and to what spec. any remedial work should be carried out. You would then arrange for docking and survey, which you pay for, should the survey show any hull thickness less than your agreed minimum, it is the sellers reponsibilty to have this remedied and to pay for it. Having successfully passed this stage, a notary ( solicitor ) will draw up deeds and arrange for registration of the ship in your name with the Kadaster ( ships and property register ). This including the meeting with the notary will be done in the Dutch language so, unless you speak Dutch ( including legal terms ) you'll need an interpretor. Once this is done the ship is yours. All this costs of course but is well worthwhile because you now have concrete proof that you are the owner and that no mortgages or loans are outstanding.

 

Another thing to bear in mind is that you will need to cost in work to comply with the B.S.S. as it's very likely that wiring, fuel and gas services won't pass.

 

Prices of old Dutch vessels vary considerably and a low price doesn't necessarily reflect a bad boat. It's more to do with how well equiped it is, standard of fit out and standard of any external conversion work. Also, as tugs are more of an enthusiasts type of vessel, how authentic it is to original.

 

Keith

Edited January 5, 2012 by Steilsteven

[JDR]

Tim-what an absolutely beautiful tug.For the uninitiated amongst us what engine is that being lifted?

 

Peter, it's not an issue of not trusting the broker just too much time spent living in rip-off Britain and becoming very cynical about anything that looks too good to be true. If I had the money in the bank I'd phone the broker today, I'd love to be proved wrong.

 

Thanks for the gen on buying Keith, an interesting way of doing business, sounds like it protects both sides (but at a cost).

[Guest]

Tim-what an absolutely beautiful tug.For the uninitiated amongst us what engine is that being lifted?

 

Another pic. for you then...

 

Taken when we passed her last August ??? on the Northern T&M. I was sure I'd seen her before somewhere..

 

[Timleech]

Tim-what an absolutely beautiful tug.For the uninitiated amongst us what engine is that being lifted?

 

 

It's a Kelvin R6

 

For sale now, would go well in a barge

 

Actually this is what's kept me out of the pub in the evenings over the holiday:-

 

 

Making a new prop shaft (with typical narrowboat-sized sterngear for comparison).

 

Luckily because of changing the engine arrangements I was able to use the old intermediate shaft for the new prop shaft - complete with forged flange - & the old prop shaft will become the new intermediate shaft. Both are mild steel.

 

 

& boring out the white-metal stern bearing:-

 

 

Next I have to refurbish the stern seal:-

 

 

This has a white metal sealing face, but the white metal has worn completely away & needs remetalling. I've written to the Swedish makers for specs but not holding my breath for a reply

 

The sterntube is oil lubricated, so needs an effective seal.

 

It is one thing to remember when considering any sort of ex-working boats including Narrow Boats, that stuff like this is usually on a bigger scale than pleasure nb's & probably not available off the shelf.

 

Tim

Edited January 5, 2012 by Timleech

[JDR]

Thanks Martin, presumably that was before/after a low bridge or tunnel.That wheelhouse looks like it has been deconstructed rather than collapsed.The funnel must be on a hinge as well then otherwise there would be no point in taking the wheelhouse apart.

[soldthehouse]

Before contemplating buying a vessel in the Netherlands, obtain a copy of The Barge Buyers Handbook from Dba www.barges.org, apart from being a thoroughly interesting read, it gives all the information you will need to know.

Buying in the Netherlands is very different to here and more akin to buying a house.Basically, when striking a deal with the seller and having viewed the boat, a price is agreed on what you've seen, a deposit is paid and an agreement is drawn up. In the agreement you will have stated the minimum hull thickness that you expect ( usually 4mm for barges, tugs might be expected to have thicker plating I don't know )and to what spec. any remedial work should be carried out. You would then arrange for docking and survey, which you pay for, should the survey show any hull thickness less than your agreed minimum, it is the sellers reponsibilty to have this remedied and to pay for it. Having successfully passed this stage, a notary ( solicitor ) will draw up deeds and arrange for registration of the ship in your name with the Kadaster ( ships and property register ). This including the meeting with the notary will be done in the Dutch language so, unless you speak Dutch ( including legal terms ) you'll need an interpretor. Once this is done the ship is yours. All this costs of course but is well worthwhile because you now have concrete proof that you are the owner and that no mortgages or loans are outstanding.

 

Another thing to bear in mind is that you will need to cost in work to comply with the B.S.S. as it's very likely that wiring, fuel and gas services won't pass.

 

Prices of old Dutch vessels vary considerably and a low price doesn't necessarily reflect a bad boat. It's more to do with how well equiped it is, standard of fit out and standard of any external conversion work. Also, as tugs are more of an enthusiasts type of vessel, how authentic it is to original.

 

Keith

People often praise one another on here for the wealth of information to be had. I have to say this contribution is excellent, who could quantify the savings to be had in monetary and heartache that this knowledge will provide, well written and thanks Keith.

 

Stuart

 

It's a Kelvin R6

 

For sale now, would go well in a barge

 

Actually this is what's kept me out of the pub in the evenings over the holiday:-

 

 

Making a new prop shaft (with typical narrowboat-sized sterngear for comparison).

 

Luckily because of changing the engine arrangements I was able to use the old intermediate shaft for the new prop shaft - complete with forged flange - & the old prop shaft will become the new intermediate shaft. Both are mild steel.

 

 

& boring out the white-metal stern bearing:-

 

 

Next I have to refurbish the stern seal:-

 

 

This has a white metal sealing face, but the white metal has worn completely away & needs remetalling. I've written to the Swedish makers for specs but not holding my breath for a reply

 

The sterntube is oil lubricated, so needs an effective seal.

 

It is one thing to remember when considering any sort of ex-working boats including Narrow Boats, that stuff like this is usually on a bigger scale than pleasure nb's & probably not available off the shelf.

 

Tim

Getting some practice for when you alter my puny shaft then Tim

Edited January 5, 2012 by soldthehouse