National

[Priam]

Anyone know where I could pick up a national engine,pref a 2 pot

 

I have a RN DM2 for sale Due to finish the retoration in the next few months!

 

In box me for more details if your interested.

 

Priam.

Edited February 29, 2012 by Priam

[Chertsey]

Yes as the original engine put in the boat in 1936 was a National

Are you taking the conversion off too then? And repainting it in GU colours?

 

(yes, I know, old thread, but first time I've seen it. Better late than never eh?)

[pete harrison]

There's a woman called Margaret I met once by Stockton locks who was keeping a list of all extant Nationals.

 

I don't know how many were made but she said at that point (1999) she know of 10 to 15 DM2s still alive.

 

Pete Harrison would know because I believe that the reason National were making DMs was that RN couldn't keep up when the GU fleet was modernised (abbreviation apology)

 

 

I do know Margaret as she owns one of 20 former G.U.C.C.Co. Ltd. motors that are currently fitted with National 2DM's. I can also account for about another half dozen (off the top of my head) that are in other historic / modern boats.

 

It should be borne in mind that not all National DM2's were marine units, and that other carriers fitted them in their motors as well as the G.U.C.C.Co. Ltd..

[Timleech]

I do know Margaret as she owns one of 20 former G.U.C.C.Co. Ltd. motors that are currently fitted with National 2DM's. I can also account for about another half dozen (off the top of my head) that are in other historic / modern boats.

 

It should be borne in mind that not all National DM2's were marine units, and that other carriers fitted them in their motors as well as the G.U.C.C.Co. Ltd..

 

Actually I think they were . The M in DM stands for Marine. The basic engine was the D.

 

Certainly not all those now in narrow boats came from the GUCCCo.

The one we fitted in our Short Boat had come from a Posh sailing yacht, believed to have been this one. That's based on information given to us by Mirrlees when we enquired, at a time when they still had some accessible National records. I expect it's in a narrow boat now though.

 

Tim

[Chertsey]

Actually I think they were . The M in DM stands for Marine. The basic engine was the D.

 

Certainly not all those now in narrow boats came from the GUCCCo.

The one we fitted in our Short Boat had come from a Posh sailing yacht, believed to have been this one. That's based on information given to us by Mirrlees when we enquired, at a time when they still had some accessible National records. I expect it's in a narrow boat now though.

 

Tim

The 1937 DM3 we had in Warrior came from a sea boat. I'm still mystified as to why there aren't more DM3s around.

[Timleech]

The 1937 DM3 we had in Warrior came from a sea boat. I'm still mystified as to why there aren't more DM3s around.

 

RN 3cylinders were fitted in a number of Short Boats. Too big for a Narrow Boat in working days, really.

 

 

I've owned a D4 and a DM4 National, many moons ago.

 

Tim

[Proper Job]

The 1937 DM3 we had in Warrior came from a sea boat. I'm still mystified as to why there aren't more DM3s around.

I would imagine that it was a simple question of cost.

 

18hp DM2's were perfectly adequate for moving a loaded pair. Why go for the extra expense of 3 cylinders when 2 were fine.

 

I doubt carrying companies were overly worried about smoother running, less stressed triples

[Chertsey]

RN 3cylinders were fitted in a number of Short Boats. Too big for a Narrow Boat in working days, really.

 

 

I've owned a D4 and a DM4 National, many moons ago.

 

Tim

 

I would imagine that it was a simple question of cost.

 

18hp DM2's were perfectly adequate for moving a loaded pair. Why go for the extra expense of 3 cylinders when 2 were fine.

 

I doubt carrying companies were overly worried about smoother running, less stressed triples

I was wondering more why there weren't more around being retro fitted or fitted in new build narrow boats. Presumable plenty were produced for sea boats, but where did they all go? Overkill for a nb, certainly, but so are lots of the vintage engines fitted today.

[Proper Job]

I was wondering more why there weren't more around being retro fitted or fitted in new build narrow boats. Presumable plenty were produced for sea boats, but where did they all go? Overkill for a nb, certainly, but so are lots of the vintage engines fitted today.

Were there that many triples built? And of those built, how many were marine units?

 

The majority of 3 cylinder RN's and Nationals I've seen have been ex industrial engines. I think it'd be fair to say that Warriors genuine marine 3 lunger is a fairly rare beast.

 

In their day, how did the price of a RN/National triple compare to that of say a Lister JP3?

[Priam]

I have a RN DM2 for sale Due to finish the retoration in the next few months!

 

In box me for more details if your interested.

 

Priam.

 

[MoominPapa]

I was wondering more why there weren't more around being retro fitted or fitted in new build narrow boats. Presumable plenty were produced for sea boats, but where did they all go?

Quite possibly many died a relatively early death from having salt-water pumped around the cooling passages.

 

MP.

[Strads]

I have a vested in interest in DM3's as having such a besty myself.

 

I have seen 3 other boats with them, all with different gearboxs and am aware of 3 others by advise of good contacts.. eg nb warrior albeit a national version,

and know of a boat that had its rebuilt etc..

 

so thats 6 boats, 4 gearbox variations, so assuming thats half then there are 6 others floating around ( all said injest )

 

PJ is right, why pay for 50% more than you really need in a working boat - they are indeed a relaxed lump and with a good prop work very well.

 

verses other engines - I would say that they broadly hold their own honest horses.. I have tugged against a few now (Ricky show daysetc) and pulled Victoria (sorry mike|)

been just tweeked by baldock a couple of years back and I think pulled Lupin all with various lumps..

 

the main failure I have had is the water pump arn drive greasing - or rather my lack of greasing it!.. ouch and Bu@@er.

[pete harrison]

RN 3cylinders were fitted in a number of Short Boats. Too big for a Narrow Boat in working days, really.

 

Tim

 

Seymour-Roseblade fitted a Russell Newbery DM3 into the former F.M.C. Ltd. wooden motor CHILTERN in about 1964. This engine was apparently taken out of a Leeds and Liverpool Short Boat. CHILTERN was still powered by this engine well into the 1970's, and probably much later.

[Tim Lewis]

This National might be a bit big:

 

 

I'm not an expert but it said National on the side!

 

Tim

[Max Sinclair]

I found the National in Vesta to be a superb engine and understand it is still running. The only problem I experienced was overheating when rubbish got through the filters and clogged the head tubes. Albert Brookes worked miracles clearing these so we could go to Stratford

I had two fully restored engines by Stewarts and Lloyds Halesowen with Vesta and passed them on to Alan Picken, The Waterfolk,so presumably they have survived.

This National might be a bit big:

 

 

I'm not an expert but it said National on the side!

 

Tim

Its been watered with MiracleGrow

[Timleech]

This National might be a bit big:

 

 

I'm not an expert but it said National on the side!

 

Tim

An E6, I think

 

Tim

Seymour-Roseblade fitted a Russell Newbery DM3 into the former F.M.C. Ltd. wooden motor CHILTERN in about 1964. This engine was apparently taken out of a Leeds and Liverpool Short Boat. CHILTERN was still powered by this engine well into the 1970's, and probably much later.

I seem to remember that it came out of the MARION, which I saw being cut up by chainsaw in Leicester, as part of a clear-up prior to the Leicester IWA National rally (whatever year that might have been?)

 

Tim

[onionbargee]

I would imagine that it was a simple question of cost.

 

18hp DM2's were perfectly adequate for moving a loaded pair. Why go for the extra expense of 3 cylinders when 2 were fine.

 

I doubt carrying companies were overly worried about smoother running, less stressed triples

i think the fact that the boatmen would have caned a 3 pot all the way and washed away the banks has something to do with it.

[fanshaft]

An E6, I think

 

Tim

 

I seem to remember that it came out of the MARION, which I saw being cut up by chainsaw in Leicester, as part of a clear-up prior to the Leicester IWA National rally (whatever year that might have been?)

 

Tim

 

Marion came over the Leeds & Liverpool in early 1965 (ice breaking en route) IIRC with 30 tonnes of timber from Liverpool for Leicester for Seymour Roseblade. I think Jack Monk was captain. The IWA National Rally at Leicester was 1967.

 

Regards

 

David L