Are you new to boating?? CLICK HERE

[DHutch]

I'm Seth and have been boating for only 6 months now - I have a 60ft semi-trad and live on the K&A.

Hi Seth.

 

-Welcome aboard.

 

 

 

Daniel

[Surfin]

Hi all

 

Great site, and a lot to read through so if I duplicate an obvious question that you’re sick of answering, please just direct me to the relevant post. Having said that, my situation is this. My self and better half are in our fifties, sick of the rat race and have realised that we could afford about 60k for a NB and have (hopefully) enough generated from our savings to live off. The style of life we envisage would be cruising with short stops at places of interest, we don’t intend to moor up and live residential.

So to my first question.

I’ve noticed posts here and there relating to various individual costs, coal, gas diesel etc, but no general costings, so I was wondering if anyone would like to give an indication of their per weekly outgoings I would be grateful.

I know the results may vary widely, depending on size or type of boat etc, but it would give me something to base my costings on.

Thanks

Neil

[Amicus]

This might help

http://www.nblibertybelle.co.uk/PAGE118.HTML

[Surfin]

This might help

http://www.nblibertybelle.co.uk/PAGE118.HTML

 

Just the job

 

thanks very much for the link Amicus

[anhar]

Just the job

 

thanks very much for the link Amicus

It might be worth pointing out that there is an error in the figures for the second year. It adds up to about £4,263, not the £4863 shown. (I have rounded to ignore pence). Either it is simply added up incorrectly and the total should be £4,263, or one of the individual items should be £600 higher.

 

More generally, it is pretty expensive. Even if you take out the mooring costs as a continuous cruiser, you are still left with £2,202 for year 1 and £4,037 for year 2 (assuming the £4,863 total is correct). Note too that the mooring costs in year 2 are actually as CCers but represent some temporary stops at marinas I presume. Therefore they should perhaps be left in to give the full £4,863 as the true cost (again assuming that this is the correct total).

 

I haven't read the whole site but has hull blacking been brought in to the maintenance figure shown? Most people wouldn't do this every year but perhaps every 2-3 years and thus it is possible that it may not have occurred in the period shown.

 

Let's assume the figures do include everything and we're looking at this as a CC so as to exclude the permanent mooring figure. The average cost per year is therefore (2,202 + 4,863)/2 = £3,532. I find that quite costly. For those in marinas costing say £2,500 pa this makes a total cost of around £6,000 per year. Rather scary in my view. I don't see how a lot of people can afford this. It is far more than the cost of running a house or flat on land.

 

regards

Steve

[bottle]

Steve

 

I have no knowledge of the actual costs but heard the cost of approx: £5000 per annum quoted on 'Waterworld'

 

I think it was the the series in which David Suchet 'named' a share boat.

 

 

Have you worked out the cost of 'running a house' you may be surprised

 

I did it once and found my outgoings more than my income but still managed it, either my maths was wrong or I made money somewhere.

[anhar]

Steve

 

I have no knowledge of the actual costs but heard the cost of approx: £5000 per annum quoted on 'Waterworld'

 

I think it was the the series in which David Suchet 'named' a share boat.

Have you worked out the cost of 'running a house' you may be surprised

 

I did it once and found my outgoings more than my income but still managed it, either my maths was wrong or I made money somewhere.

Hello Bottle

 

I have indeed worked out the costs of running my house and it is considerably less than £6,000pa and that includes council tax, gas & electric, insurance, maintenance etc. Being built built about five years ago it is very efficient on heating costs, well insulated, double glazing all round and requires minimal external maintenance. There isn't much to paint. It is a three bedroom town house and the figures allow for the fact that I'm home a lot because I work from here, such work as it is, because I retired early from my business three years ago and now just do a bit of very part time writing. Thus the heating is on constantly during the winter months. A modern flat would cost even less on heating bills. An older poorly insulated house with a lot of external paintwork and things constantly going wrong would no doubt cost a lot more to maintain so clearly running a home on land will vary quite a bit depending on the type of property.

 

But I still find £6,000 pa for marina moorers, which I will be, hugely expensive for a canal boat in comparison to a land property. And of course if you are a liveaboard you have only the fraction of the space on a boat, no garden and so on. Thus you really have to love it. I am not knocking boat ownership, I'm here because I am seriously considering it, but I think one has to ignore the costs after making sure they can in general be afforded easily. It's too horrifying to think about!

 

My fundamental point is that it is all substantially more expensive than I imagined when I first caught the bug, which is only about nine months ago. For liveaboards, which I won't be, they are right to enquire seriously into the cost before plunging in. And then to reckon with super inflation too because it is near certain that the costs of living on board will rise substantially in future, quite likely by much more than inflation and by more than wages/pensions/investment income.

 

In order to afford comfortably say £3,500pa now for CCers or say £6,000pa for marina boaters, you probably need a net income, that is after all tax and deductions, of maybe £15,000 pa minimum for a liveaboard. Those like me who will still retain land property need much more of course, unless perhaps they let the property. Yes you could cut it fine and eke it out on less, but personally I wouldn't want to. I want a comfortable margin over the costs so I don't have to worry every time I visit the supermarket or want to take a holiday elsewhere or need some cash for an emergency etc.

 

regards

Steve

[bottle]

Hi Steve

 

Your figures in the last paragraph are very much inline to those that I calculated when deciding to live aboard..

 

I have been lucky (in one way, early retirement {forced}) in that my pension will cover my personal costs and previous investment will cover boat costs.

 

I do worry that those that look at being liveaboard as cheaper than living ashore, maybe in for a surprise if they do not calculate their figures correctly.

 

Good luck in finding the money.

 

ps. boat build will not start till 2007 first available slot with builder, ordered 2005

[anhar]

...I do worry that those that look at being liveaboard as cheaper than living ashore, maybe in for a surprise if they do not calculate their figures correctly...

...ps. boat build will not start till 2007 first available slot with builder, ordered 2005

Yes, I don't know why living on a narrow boat was ever presumed to be cheaper than living on land. Certainly I originally and naively believed it to be so but was soon disabused of that notion after a little research, for which this site has proved invaluable by the way.

 

Perhaps at one time it was substantially cheaper or for those dog-on-a-string types living on an old hulk which never moves it may still be that way. But both you and I are looking at this by doing it comfortably, in a nice boat that we intend to cruise and maintain properly and that is frighteningly expensive with a much higher than normal inflation rate too. I reckon you have to allow for 10% annual inflation for boat running costs at least, meaning they will double every seven years.

 

I admire your perserverance with Fernwood. I know their quality (and pricing) is outstanding but I doubt I'd go for such a lengthy waiting list for my first boat, if it is your first boat that is.

 

regards

Steve

[Amicus]

As an outsider (wannabe) looking in, I think that costs are set to increase by a large margin, fossil fuels prices are going to go up, and I think BW have set their minds on a big increase in their income from licenses. I think they'll increase above any index year on year till they hit the 'sweet spot', that is the price where there is no increase in revenue due to people being priced off the system.

 

P.S. I'm still in with a fighting chance, but..................................?

[bottle]

Snip................

 

I admire your perserverance with Fernwood. I know their quality (and pricing) is outstanding but I doubt I'd go for such a lengthy waiting list for my first boat, if it is your first boat that is.

 

regards

Steve

 

Yes it will be our first boat, we chose Fernwood, because of the quality they always have maintained. When we first met Ken and Julia we found that our thoughts etc. were on such a par we could not go anywhere else.

 

As an outsider (wannabe) looking in, I think that costs are set to increase by a large margin, fossil fuels prices are going to go up, and I think BW have set their minds on a big increase in their income from licenses. I think they'll increase above any index year on year till they hit the 'sweet spot', that is the price where there is no increase in revenue due to people being priced off the system.

 

P.S. I'm still in with a fighting chance, but..................................?

 

Amicus

 

Don't hold your breath for that sweet spot

 

Utilitys have just announced 22% increase in charges.

[Surfin]

A big thanks to you all so far with your input re NB cruising costs, when a newbie like myself bumbles along with thoughts of taking a big plunge into a radically new lifestyle like this, the first thing to concider, to my mind is the day to day costs of such a venture. Yes the size, type and fitments of the boat are important but it's very easy to under estimate the running costs.

I think it depends how a person cuts their cloth, so to speak, as to what an individual is likely to spend, the one thing that appears to be certain is that costs are going to dramatically rise due to the appeal of the boating lifestyle.

I've just been down to the marina at Rufford, not too far from where I live and was astounded by the way it had developed, and a new section is being dug out at present to accomodate more craft.

More sums to do me thinks.

 

Neil

[DHutch]

I have no knowledge of the actual costs but heard the cost of approx: £5000 per annum quoted on 'Waterworld'

When compairing that with our student accomation prices you could do a lot worse!!

- When you consider an average self-catered room is well over £2000 for a 32week let, and the cheapest 50week "onsuite" room is £3700.

- Im paying £3850 for my (9*14ft) single room with my "pod-type" onsuite thingy. And then the "kitchen" shared by 12 others.

 

(Little bit OffTopic, but im just trying relate these costs in my head)

 

 

Daniel

[bottle]

A big thanks to you all so far with your input re NB cruising costs, when a newbie like myself bumbles along with thoughts of taking a big plunge into a radically new lifestyle like this, the first thing to concider, to my mind is the day to day costs of such a venture. Yes the size, type and fitments of the boat are important but it's very easy to under estimate the running costs.

I think it depends how a person cuts their cloth, so to speak, as to what an individual is likely to spend, the one thing that appears to be certain is that costs are going to dramatically rise due to the appeal of the boating lifestyle.

I've just been down to the marina at Rufford, not too far from where I live and was astounded by the way it had developed, and a new section is being dug out at present to accomodate more craft.

More sums to do me thinks.

 

Neil

 

Good luck with the sums, hope the figures come out right.

[wrigglefingers]

Good luck with the sums, hope the figures come out right.

 

Hi forum

 

As I'm in the process of buying a boat to liveaboard, I thought I'd add my ha'porth (or more). It's taken quite a while to get to this point so I've sat down and carefully considered the figures to make sure it added up as a viable choice for me and Elly. The figures I've worked on are fairly comparable to those being listed on this site but I've steadily refined them by talking to the present owner of the boat I'm buying and other contacts.

 

I reckon that the costs of buying a twelve year old 58ft boat so far have been around £600 (which has been on the low side, would've been over £1k if I hadn't had a very big favour). I expect to spend a further £1,750 on essential maintenance and blacking this year and further £1500 on 'stuff I'd like to do' if I can afford it later in the summer. My day to day running costs on marina, licence, insurance and assorted fuel will be around £4k per year (assuming 8 eight weeks of cruising and no nasty boat-shaped surprises).

 

Although it's not directly comparable, the totals for living in a rented house taken on this year will come to just under £10k. I'm assuming that all my other outgoings for food and beer (shocking large) will be the same. The difference between the two totals is not that great, although I will own my boat outright as opposed to renting a house, and I could go continuously cruising in a similar way to many at this end of the K & A (ducks to avoid incoming) to reduce costs. If I were to take on a mortgage to buy a house in Wiltshire I would be increasing my yearly totals to well over 12k.

 

The point is this, I'm making a choice in which the cost benefits are arguably marginal. There are far more cost variables on the water because boats need to be maintained in good time in order to work well as opposed to houses. I expect to pay more in the way of maintenance for a while because I'm learning how these things work and there will a monetary cost in that. Moreover, a house is, in principle, an investment whereas a boat will gently depreciate over time (although some don't). Nonetheless, living on a boat is far more than a marginal cost-cutting exercise; for me it's about leaving a smaller ecological dent and a less pressured lifestyle.

 

I'm running an Excel worksheet on costs as I go through the buying and first year of ownership and I can email a copy if would help anybody thinking of doing the same. In fact, if I knew how to do it I'd run a blog and then you could all laugh at the mistakes ........

 

Jill

Edited February 20, 2006 by wrigglefingers

[Surfin]

Hi forum

 

As I'm in the process of buying a boat to liveaboard, I thought I'd add my ha'porth (or more). It's taken quite a while to get to this point so I've sat down and carefully considered the figures to make sure it added up as a viable choice for me and Elly. The figures I've worked on are fairly comparable to those being listed on this site but I've steadily refined them by talking to the present owner of the boat I'm buying and other contacts.

 

I reckon that the costs of buying a twelve year old 58ft boat so far have been around £600 (which has been on the low side, would've been over £1k if I hadn't had a very big favour). I expect to spend a further £1,750 on essential maintenance and blacking this year and further £1500 on 'stuff I'd like to do' if I can afford it later in the summer. My day to day running costs on marina, licence, insurance and assorted fuel will be around £4k per year (assuming 8 eight weeks of cruising and no nasty boat-shaped surprises).

 

Although it's not directly comparable, the totals for living in a rented house taken on this year will come to just under £10k. I'm assuming that all my other outgoings for food and beer (shocking large) will be the same. The difference between the two totals is not that great, although I will own my boat outright as opposed to renting a house, and I could go continuously cruising in a similar way to many at this end of the K & A (ducks to avoid incoming) to reduce costs. If I were to take on a mortgage to buy a house in Wiltshire I would be increasing my yearly totals to well over 12k.

 

The point is this, I'm making a choice in which the cost benefits are arguably marginal. There are far more cost variables on the water because boats need to be maintained in good time in order to work well as opposed to houses. I expect to pay more in the way of maintenance for a while because I'm learning how these things work and there will a monetary cost in that. Moreover, a house is, in principle, an investment whereas a boat will gently depreciate over time (although some don't). Nonetheless, living on a boat is far more than a marginal cost-cutting exercise; for me it's about leaving a smaller ecological dent and a less pressured lifestyle.

 

I'm running an Excel worksheet on costs as I go through the buying and first year of ownership and I can email a copy if would help anybody thinking of doing the same. In fact, if I knew how to do it I'd run a blog and then you could all laugh at the mistakes ........

 

Jill

 

 

Please keep your input coming, I’m sure these figures will help many would be boaters they are certainly helping me.

I must add at this point that I’m not really a tight a**e, (well I probably am) it’s a case of getting into what would probably be a great lifestyle, then at some future point in time have the bank manager pull the rug out. After buying a boat I will have limited funds to play with, one of the big benefits is that I could retire nine years early, after all you only get one crack at life (unless you know something I don’t)

Here are my figures so far; I’ve detailed them so that if anyone wants to pick the bones out of them they are welcome.

 

Costing are on a weekly basis

 

Mooring 46

Gas 2

Diesel 15

Waste 2

Licence 12

Maintenance 12

Safety cert 2

TV 2

Insurance 6

Coal 4

Total 103

 

I’ve calculated my figures on averages of other NB cruisers offerings as closely as possible, allowances made for two people excluding mobile phone, food etc.

 

Neil

[anhar]

Please keep your input coming, I’m sure these figures will help many would be boaters they are certainly helping me.

I must add at this point that I’m not really a tight a**e, (well I probably am) it’s a case of getting into what would probably be a great lifestyle, then at some future point in time have the bank manager pull the rug out. After buying a boat I will have limited funds to play with, one of the big benefits is that I could retire nine years early, after all you only get one crack at life (unless you know something I don’t)

Here are my figures so far; I’ve detailed them so that if anyone wants to pick the bones out of them they are welcome.

 

Costing are on a weekly basis

 

Mooring 46

Gas 2

Diesel 15

Waste 2

Licence 12

Maintenance 12

Safety cert 2

TV 2

Insurance 6

Coal 4

Total 103

 

I’ve calculated my figures on averages of other NB cruisers offerings as closely as possible, allowances made for two people excluding mobile phone, food etc.

 

Neil

Hello Neil

 

Yes I'd say your figures are about right, equating to £5,356pa. I made it more like £6,000, others have claimed £5,000 so you are probably in the right parish with your calculations.

 

Don't forget to allow for inflation as I mention above, at very likely a much higher than the prevailing general rate. I have suggested 10%pa. Thus if you can only just afford it now I would express serious doubts over whether you should proceed at all.

 

To allow for the inflation aspect I suggest you need to consider the following situations:

 

1 You need to be sure that your income will rise at a similar rate to boat costs inflation.

 

2 Your income needs to be so much in excess of current and likely future boat costs that inflation of the latter is unimportant.

 

3 You have a large amount of capital available which you can use to supplement your income to a sufficient level to cover boat expenses for as long as it takes without it running out.

 

Any one of these, or a mixture of them, is required in my view to ensure a financial problem free boating retirement. Finally, note that if you are selling up all land property in order to finance your boating dreams, it may be close to impossible to repurchase a property in several years if prices rise dramatically so unless you will maintain a seriously large dollop of cash in the bank, you could be in real trouble there should you decide to give up the canal for whatever reason.

 

regards

Steve

Edited February 20, 2006 by anhar

[Spen]

I'll introduce myself first My name is Spencer and my wife Linda and I have been seriously considering taking to life on the canals for over 18 months. In that time we have read loads of magazines, visited marinas and shows, spoken to everyone who was foolish enough to make eye contact and really thought hard about a potential change of lifestyle.

 

I am hoping to make my money from my cartooning and maybe a bit of temping as required.

 

The house has been on the market for a few months and in five weeks time my job comes to an end at the same time as we spend our first week on the canals, we have already completed the Helmsman course and are really looking forward to trying the lifestyle out for more than a day. We are really excited about living a different life, but it is a tremendous risk as we are having to sell the house to buy the boat. Living costs are obviously a worry too, but if £5 - 6K a year holds true then it is cheaper than running this house, and the thought of getting out of the rat race brings tears of joy to my eyes!

 

I'm glad I found this forum, it is already proving invaluable and no doubt I will be searching the board for answers to my many questions.

 

 

Look forward to getting more involved!

[DHutch]

Welcome aboard Spencer!

 

I hope you like it here

 

 

 

Daniel

[Blue Cat]

I'd like to be new to boating.

My main question is can middle aged cats grow sea legs?

[John Orentas]

I'd like to be new to boating.

My main question is can middle aged cats grow sea legs?

 

 

We have two cats, never risked taking them boating though, I so often pass boats that have some nice furry feline lounging about inside.

 

I think our two would take off after a mouse and expect us to wait around for a couple of days until they condescend to honour us with their company again.

[junior_7178]

Hi

 

Ive been using the forum for reference for a few weeks now and posted a few times,so i thought i should introduce myself formaly.

 

My name is Martin,but everyone calls me junior.Im 25 and i come from Brighton.Im in the Armed Forces and am currently based in Northern Ireland.Im going out to Iraq in may for 6 months and when i come back im going to be based in Peterborough for 3 years and am planning to purchase a narrowboat and liveaboard.

 

Im very serious about it and im doing a lot of the reasearch now before i go so i know what im getting myself intrested in.

 

Hopefuly im welcome even though i dont own a boat yet,and when it comes around i'll hopefully know a few people and can get advice etc.

[bottle]

junior

 

You are welcome, the ownership of a boat is not necessary, you will find us a friendly lot and there is a wealth of knowledge.

 

We even have a 'pedantic old fart' his words

[wrigglefingers]

I'd like to be new to boating.

My main question is can middle aged cats grow sea legs?

 

We're planning on taking Astro and Thea onboard with us in April as we'll be residential. They should be able to come and go when they're settled. Mike Stevens takes his cats with him when cruising. Mike's home page. You'd probably need to be patient with leaving times though I'd guess.

 

Good luck and welcome!

 

Jill

Edited March 5, 2006 by wrigglefingers

[Blue Cat]

We're planning on taking Astro and Thea onboard with us in April as we'll be residential. They should be able to come and go when they're settled. Mike Stevens takes his cats with him when cruising. Mike's home page. You'd probably need to be patient with leaving times though I'd guess.

 

Good luck and welcome!

 

Jill

 

Thanks Jill. Mike's page was great reading. My two cats Mollie, exotic Blue & Milner, long-haired tortoiseshell are both rescue cats and have moved house with me more times than I can remember. They seem to cope just fine. After initially searching every inch of their new surroundings they are desperate to be outside so it would only be the water they'd have to get used to really.

Now, apart from saving up some more money, I could do with convincing my other half who is probably busy making some cat size life jackets just in case.