run your boat on water "are you mad"

[Yellowback]

In answer to the above question, this is what we have instructed examiners.

 

There is a current potential risk from oxyhydrogen (HHO), generators to examiners as well as people using or working on the waterways. In this regard, examiners are not to issue a BSS Certificate should one be found during a BSS examination, unless the installation is supported by relevant standards.

 

The action to take if you find one connected:

 

In view of the risks outlined below, as a minimum such devices can only be deemed acceptable if installed in accordance with an accepted manufacturing or installation standard. [N.B. we have not as yet identified any industry standard esp. marine transport, in the world]

 

BSS Examiner actions - If an examiner finds a HHO generator installed in a boat being examined then he/she should seek to ensure the device is not operated during the examination and inform the boat owner that the installation must be supported by standards relevant to boat installations in order to meet BSS General Requirement 1*.

 

In the event the owner claims the installation is supported by relevant standards the details must be reported to the BSS Office for verification. If necessary the owner should be referred to the BSS Office for clarification of the BSS policy concerning HHO generators.

 

If the installation isn't supported by relevant standards the device must be removed by the owner or his representative in order to allow the examination to be completed and BSS Certificate issued, as appropriate.

 

The examiner must report the finding and owner actions to the BSS Office.

 

Examiners must be mindful of the possibility that any aqueous solutions may include potassium hydroxide. Contact with potassium hydroxide must be avoided**.

 

BSS Office actions - In the event an examiner informs the BSS Office of a HHO generator installed in a boat, support will be provided to the examiner concerned and including any direct dealings with the boat owner. The BSS Office will determine on any standard referred to by the owner.

 

The discovery will be reported to the relevant navigation authority together with advice about the nature of the risk and the number of findings will be reported to BSSTC and BSSAC [BSS advising committees]to assess any need for further action.

 

* BSS General Requirement 1 - All permanently installed fuel systems and fixed engines must be designed, installed and maintained in a way that minimises the risks of explosion, or of fire starting or spreading.

 

** In the event of contact with potassium hydroxide - Contact with eyes, immediately flush the eye with plenty of water and continue for at least ten minutes and call for immediate medical help. Skin contact; wash off with plenty of water, remove any contaminated clothing. If the skin reddens or appears damaged, call for medical aid. If swallowed, drink plenty of water and call for immediate medical help. [drawn from web-based chemical safety data sheets]

 

 

 

Thus HHO generators should not be used or installed on boats on inland waterways. Whether they create more energy than they use, or make more efficient use of pre-existing calorific values, or are the source of perpetual motion, is not a topic for the BSS. However without a proven safe standard for production and delivery equipment in a marine enviromment, HHO generators should not be considered as an acceptably safe option to have on a boat.

 

Kind regards

Rob

 

 

Thanks for clarifying that for me Rob.

 

So it would appear that even if the gas was easily produced and stored, it would not be viable for use on a vessel on inland waterways until, or if, an industrial standard for use was set out.

 

Bang goes my using my hydrogen storage balloon to raise my TV and phone aerials up in the air to improve my signal strength.

[Guest]

Thanks for clarifying that for me Rob.

 

So it would appear that even if the gas was easily produced and stored, it would not be viable for use on a vessel on inland waterways until, or if, an industrial standard for use was set out.

 

Bang goes my using my hydrogen storage balloon to raise my TV and phone aerials up in the air to improve my signal strength.

Quite literally I suspect

[Pretty Funked Up]

my using my hydrogen storage balloon to raise my TV and phone aerials up in the air to improve my signal strength.

 

someone else had the same idea

[Nige123]

In answer to the above question, this is what we have instructed examiners.

 

There is a current potential risk from oxyhydrogen (HHO), generators to examiners as well as people using or working on the waterways. In this regard, examiners are not to issue a BSS Certificate should one be found during a BSS examination, unless the installation is supported by relevant standards.

 

The action to take if you find one connected:

 

In view of the risks outlined below, as a minimum such devices can only be deemed acceptable if installed in accordance with an accepted manufacturing or installation standard. [N.B. we have not as yet identified any industry standard esp. marine transport, in the world]

 

BSS Examiner actions - If an examiner finds a HHO generator installed in a boat being examined then he/she should seek to ensure the device is not operated during the examination and inform the boat owner that the installation must be supported by standards relevant to boat installations in order to meet BSS General Requirement 1*.

 

In the event the owner claims the installation is supported by relevant standards the details must be reported to the BSS Office for verification. If necessary the owner should be referred to the BSS Office for clarification of the BSS policy concerning HHO generators.

 

If the installation isn't supported by relevant standards the device must be removed by the owner or his representative in order to allow the examination to be completed and BSS Certificate issued, as appropriate.

 

The examiner must report the finding and owner actions to the BSS Office.

 

Examiners must be mindful of the possibility that any aqueous solutions may include potassium hydroxide. Contact with potassium hydroxide must be avoided**.

 

BSS Office actions - In the event an examiner informs the BSS Office of a HHO generator installed in a boat, support will be provided to the examiner concerned and including any direct dealings with the boat owner. The BSS Office will determine on any standard referred to by the owner.

 

The discovery will be reported to the relevant navigation authority together with advice about the nature of the risk and the number of findings will be reported to BSSTC and BSSAC [BSS advising committees]to assess any need for further action.

 

* BSS General Requirement 1 - All permanently installed fuel systems and fixed engines must be designed, installed and maintained in a way that minimises the risks of explosion, or of fire starting or spreading.

 

** In the event of contact with potassium hydroxide - Contact with eyes, immediately flush the eye with plenty of water and continue for at least ten minutes and call for immediate medical help. Skin contact; wash off with plenty of water, remove any contaminated clothing. If the skin reddens or appears damaged, call for medical aid. If swallowed, drink plenty of water and call for immediate medical help. [drawn from web-based chemical safety data sheets]

 

 

 

Thus HHO generators should not be used or installed on boats on inland waterways. Whether they create more energy than they use, or make more efficient use of pre-existing calorific values, or are the source of perpetual motion, is not a topic for the BSS. However without a proven safe standard for production and delivery equipment in a marine enviromment, HHO generators should not be considered as an acceptably safe option to have on a boat.

 

Kind regards

Rob

 

many many thanks Rob....

At last some real feedback of some real use...

this I was told by the guy that did my inspection after I started this thread, I see that you have come across this in the past so I am not the first to come across up with the thought of using Browns gas or HHO for boat use...

 

This kind of help is good for anyone else that comes here looking for advice as you have pointed out the fact that if anything went wrong you may be in trouble & a fire damaged boat would not be covered by your insurance I would expect....

 

Again many many thanks this is the kind of post I was hoping for...

[Nige123]

Nature certainly provides us with free energy; our planet is sustained by free heat from the sun. However there is a cost for harnessing that energy. The free energy you discuss such as hydro plants and solar installations cost money to build and maintain. Fossil fuels are also used to manufacture the hardware. So free it aint.

 

As a young kid I used to imagine a motor driving a generator which in turn powered the motor. Obvious isn't it,give it a start and there you have it; perpetual motion. As an adult I realise that frictional and electrical losses might make my schoolkid theory somewhat flawed.

 

I think you have just proved the energy is free it just costs to in your words "Harness" it.....

or by your way of thinking just by seeing a perpetual motion machine would make it not a PM machine as it took energy to open ones eyes!

 

& one other point I would like to add is when I used to drag race cars some were using Oxygen enriched fuels with good results...

this was a small additive of gas that made engines run better! & remember the first post I never said anything about using HHO as a sole fuel but as an additive to a Petrol engine or diesel engine to make it run better.....

 

 

The next question is can you fart on board without getting a BSSABC 123 certificate???? but I'm done now....

Edited October 13, 2011 by Nige123

[WotEver]

... I'm done now....

I bet you're not

[carlt]

& one other point I would like to add is when I used to drag race cars some were using Oxygen enriched fuels with good results...

this was a small additive of gas that made engines run better! & remember the first post I never said anything about using HHO as a sole fuel but as an additive to a Petrol engine or diesel engine to make it run better.....

 

But, with Nitrous, O2 enrichment or any fuel additive, you are not using the engine's energy to manufacture it, you are providing it in a tank, bottle or other container, just like the petrol or diesel in your tank.

 

Do you not see the simple difference between those additives and your jam jars and egg whisks?

[AJLintern]

Also nitrous being a compressed gas you have a lot more available instantly (or as much as your bottle will provide). How much of a boost do you get if flowing nitrous into an engine at atmospheric pressure with a flow rate of 1 litre per minute...?

[mayalld]

many many thanks Rob....

At last some real feedback of some real use...

this I was told by the guy that did my inspection after I started this thread, I see that you have come across this in the past so I am not the first to come across up with the thought of using Browns gas or HHO for boat use...

 

This kind of help is good for anyone else that comes here looking for advice as you have pointed out the fact that if anything went wrong you may be in trouble & a fire damaged boat would not be covered by your insurance I would expect....

 

Again many many thanks this is the kind of post I was hoping for...

 

Indeed.

 

So, the position is that even if it did work (which it doesn't), such an installation breaches BSS requirements, and installing one would cause a boat to fail its BSC.

 

So, that pretty much consigns it to the bin doesn't it.

 

It doesn't work, and it is hazardous. End of story

[Sir Nibble]

Just as an aside, HHO is not actually a representation of any sort of the gas itself, it's an acronym for "Homogenised Hydrogen/Oxygen". Another part of the disguise.

[Pretty Funked Up]

I often wonder why at every lock on the rivers, why we just let water pour away & not fit hydro units that would run day & night for free!

 

This is the only viable/sensible idea in the whole thread. Been saying it for ages!!!

Why arent BW harnessing the power from every lock? why BW? surely they have power bills they want to eliminate?

[AJLintern]

Would probably only be viable on a river or where there is definite constant flow down hill. I don't think it'd be worth fitting a turbine to individual canal locks, only generating a small amount of energy from a passing boat.

What would be handy is having your own turbine that you lower into the lock adjacent to the paddles, spinning as the lock empties and charging you own batteries!

[Pretty Funked Up]

Would probably only be viable on a river or where there is definite constant flow down hill. I don't think it'd be worth fitting a turbine to individual canal locks, only generating a small amount of energy from a passing boat.

What would be handy is having your own turbine that you lower into the lock adjacent to the paddles, spinning as the lock empties and charging you own batteries!

 

Handy indeed. Like one of those things sail boats drag behind em to charge.

 

I think its viable on any lock with a 4ft or more drop/head.

Edited October 13, 2011 by Pretty Funked Up