Service injectors or Diesel Additive.

[Richard10002]

Hi,

 

Steve Hands, surveyor, did a pre purchase inspection for us last Friday and said that, as the engine, (Vetus 4.14), was blowing black smoke, ( unburnt fuel), and had probably been little used for 2 years or so, it might be worth having the injectors serviced/reconditioned. Said it should cost around £30 per injector.

 

However, he also said that he didn't think it was urgent, and it would be worth trying an additive like Forte or BG244, and see if it sorts things out.

 

Broker/yard, (Simon at Simtech Marine, Barton Turns Marina), quotes £45 per injector for removal, sending off, and refitting, but also says that these engines tend to work or not, and the additive route may be worth trying. Apparently Simon's background is in diesel engines.

 

I'm torn between the two. On the one hand, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" suggests that something could go wrong/be disturbed in the process, so leave well alone. On the other hand, "don't spoil the ship for a ha'pporth of tar", suggests that I don't skimp, just get it done.

 

Money isn't an issue in the scheme of things - the boat was a good deal, so £180 is well within the budget if it's money well spent.

 

Any thoughts and suggestions welcomed - appreciate its my decision in the end

 

Many Thanks,

 

Richard

[GSer]

Personally i'd add some injector cleaner type addative then run it for a while, if the black smoke gets annoying or shows no sighns of improving then service the injectors (simple to get done and unlikely to go wrong or cause issues) then use a diesel treatment for a few tankfulls.

[Tony Brooks]

Hi,

 

Steve Hands, surveyor, did a pre purchase inspection for us last Friday and said that, as the engine, (Vetus 4.14), was blowing black smoke, ( unburnt fuel), and had probably been little used for 2 years or so, it might be worth having the injectors serviced/reconditioned. Said it should cost around £30 per injector.

 

However, he also said that he didn't think it was urgent, and it would be worth trying an additive like Forte or BG244, and see if it sorts things out.

 

Broker/yard, (Simon at Simtech Marine, Barton Turns Marina), quotes £45 per injector for removal, sending off, and refitting, but also says that these engines tend to work or not, and the additive route may be worth trying. Apparently Simon's background is in diesel engines.

 

I'm torn between the two. On the one hand, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" suggests that something could go wrong/be disturbed in the process, so leave well alone. On the other hand, "don't spoil the ship for a ha'pporth of tar", suggests that I don't skimp, just get it done.

 

Money isn't an issue in the scheme of things - the boat was a good deal, so £180 is well within the budget if it's money well spent.

 

Any thoughts and suggestions welcomed - appreciate its my decision in the end

 

Many Thanks,

 

Richard

 

 

First of all surveyors are well known for covering their backs. Secondly black smoke is not necessarily indicative of injector problems.

 

Before trying to give sensible advice we need to know:

 

How easily does it stars from cold (injectors that are not atomising the fuel are likely to cause poorer cold starting).

 

When is the black smoke produced (if only during acceleration it would not worry me much, if only whilst travelling at higher speeds it is just as likely to be and over-sized prop).

 

How well vented is the engine room and has the air cleaner/intake been checked for blockages (lack of air will cause black smoke more readily than faulty injectors).

 

 

Additives will cost less than £20 and are very unlikely to do any harm (if they will do much good is open to question) so must be worth a try but if it really has been done very little real work my initial thought would be to get it on a river and give it a good thrashing - either with or without additive. A partially blocked exhaust causing back pressure will do the same as a restricted air intake. You may well find that you start laying down a smoke screen as carbon in the exhaust burns off.

 

Only after that and using an additive would I send the injectors away BUT please check the things I have listed above.

[n.b.Goldie]

IIRC forum member Bizzard has in the past suggested filling the fuel filter half full of injector cleaner and half with diesel and then running the engine as a method of cleaning the injectors.

 

If I have this wrong I hope Mr.Bizzard will be along to correct me before too long!

 

Regards

Ditchdabbler

[Richard10002]

That little combination of replies makes up my mind i'll bide my time and see how it goes.

 

Tony - starts after a couple of turns with the starter, and runs fine alongside, both idling,, and with about 1500 revs in gear, forward and reverse. I haven't actually seen any black smoke yet.

 

Yard has either serviced the engine, or will be doing so early next week.

 

To be fair to the surveyor, he said we wouldn't come to any trouble if we did our trip from Barton to Stretford and seeing how it goes.

 

Thanks to each for the help. Our first trip will be in an hour or so - from the visitors berths at Barton to berth No. 71..... A total of about 100 yards

 

Cheers

 

Richard

[Neil2]

Surely white smoke is the indicator of injector problems? My BMC starts quite easily but puts out a lot of white smoke until you put her in gear when the smoke disappears. I put this down to more diesel being forced through the injectors when under load. I'm trying the additive route without much hope but I'll report back in due course.

Can't help thinking might as well replace the injectors as have them serviced there can't be much difference in price. I think ASAP do them but can't get hold of AMC/Thorneycroft as they are on holiday at pres.

[Mat B]

Can't help thinking might as well replace the injectors as have them serviced there can't be much difference in price. I think ASAP do them but can't get hold of AMC/Thorneycroft as they are on holiday at pres.

 

Just had a look at ASAP - they do injector nozzle only for about £12

 

Are these easy to fit to an injector? would they need any sort of calibration or setting up?

 

m@

[bizzard]

IIRC forum member Bizzard has in the past suggested filling the fuel filter half full of injector cleaner and half with diesel and then running the engine as a method of cleaning the injectors.

 

If I have this wrong I hope Mr.Bizzard will be along to correct me before too long!

 

Regards

Ditchdabbler

Quite right, we did it often to get diesel vehicles through the MOT emission check. Will clean injector nozzles fast and should stop dribble ''incombustible''cause of missfire bad starting and grey black smoke, and so restore correct nozzle spray pattern.

[nbfiresprite]

Redex is on offer in Tesco £2 at the moment. Worth chucking some in the tank.

 

Firesprite

 

Back in the Fens

[Tony Brooks]

Surely white smoke is the indicator of injector problems? My BMC starts quite easily but puts out a lot of white smoke until you put her in gear when the smoke disappears. I put this down to more diesel being forced through the injectors when under load. I'm trying the additive route without much hope but I'll report back in due course.

Can't help thinking might as well replace the injectors as have them serviced there can't be much difference in price. I think ASAP do them but can't get hold of AMC/Thorneycroft as they are on holiday at pres.

 

 

Your white "smoke" is probably unburnt fuel being vaporised in the exhaust track. This is common on BMCs for a short while after starting and I would not worry about it as long as it clears. This is why we really need to know more about the OPs black smoke. I suspect it is a symptom of back covering, especially after the OPs second post.

 

Just had a look at ASAP - they do injector nozzle only for about £12

 

Are these easy to fit to an injector? would they need any sort of calibration or setting up?

 

m@

 

 

If you are fitting new nozzles then you can probably do it with a simple diesel pop-tester. You will need to use this to set up the opening pressure. I very much doubt it would be worth a boater getting one unless you happened to be between a workshop and their scrap metal bin.

 

If you wish to TEST BMC 1.5 and 1.8 nozzles you should also use a special adaptor with the pop-tester to assess the spray pattern from the auxiliary spray hole.

[Guest]

My vetus has black smoked a little from new when under full load. I have always put this down to being slightly overpropped. I once flled up with some diesel that caused more black smoke than usual, and Fortron tamed it a bit. It went back to normal after refilling again.

[Chalky]

I'm very wary of injector cleaners that are added to the fuel. There were stories in the trade a few years ago about people adding cleaner to the fuel tanks in their cars to clean the injectors. The additive worked really well and freed up all of the fuel varnish in the pipe work and proceeded to deposit it into the injectors. These were then blocked and had to be removed for cleaning. These were solenoid operated petrol injectors, so I'm not sure if the problem exists with diesel.

[nbfiresprite]

I'm very wary of injector cleaners that are added to the fuel. There were stories in the trade a few years ago about people adding cleaner to the fuel tanks in their cars to clean the injectors. The additive worked really well and freed up all of the fuel varnish in the pipe work and proceeded to deposit it into the injectors. These were then blocked and had to be removed for cleaning. These were solenoid operated petrol injectors, so I'm not sure if the problem exists with diesel.

 

Never had this problem in over 20 years of use.

 

Firesprite

 

In the office

[Timleech]

I'm very wary of injector cleaners that are added to the fuel. There were stories in the trade a few years ago about people adding cleaner to the fuel tanks in their cars to clean the injectors. The additive worked really well and freed up all of the fuel varnish in the pipe work and proceeded to deposit it into the injectors. These were then blocked and had to be removed for cleaning. These were solenoid operated petrol injectors, so I'm not sure if the problem exists with diesel.

 

Petrol does tend to leave varnish deposits, seems to be worse with 'modern' petrol, not aware of it ever being an issue with diesel fuel.

 

Tim

[Tony Brooks]

I'm very wary of injector cleaners that are added to the fuel. There were stories in the trade a few years ago about people adding cleaner to the fuel tanks in their cars to clean the injectors. The additive worked really well and freed up all of the fuel varnish in the pipe work and proceeded to deposit it into the injectors. These were then blocked and had to be removed for cleaning. These were solenoid operated petrol injectors, so I'm not sure if the problem exists with diesel.

 

 

I would be very wary of using an additive in modern high pressure car injectors but our type of boat injector is extremely robust and I can see no way in which they would be harmed. Even if the deposits in the fuel lines and tank were loosened most should be caught in the fuel filter(s).

 

I'm very wary of injector cleaners that are added to the fuel. There were stories in the trade a few years ago about people adding cleaner to the fuel tanks in their cars to clean the injectors. The additive worked really well and freed up all of the fuel varnish in the pipe work and proceeded to deposit it into the injectors. These were then blocked and had to be removed for cleaning. These were solenoid operated petrol injectors, so I'm not sure if the problem exists with diesel.

[boaterphil]

My BMC1.8 when new smoked Iwas told new injectors were needed another engineer said check the tappets from cold which he did, it never smoked again. My neighbour a great person engine has smoked for years I told him the same he has checked and his tappets are ok. but he has chnaged the cam belt which was out by 1 tooth? and he feels that was his problem, the smoke was terrible, I will keep you updated.