Bantock Mk1 butty on eBay

[MtB]

I've just noticed a 70ft converted and motorised Bantock butty on ebBay. Just thought I'd mention it in case anyone here is interested. I've no connection with the sale. Seems a sensible price as it contains a Lister JP3M and Blackstone box in claimed good running condition.

 

Clicky

 

Anyone know any more about this boat?

 

 

Mike

[pete harrison]

I've just noticed a 70ft converted and motorised Bantock butty on ebBay. Just thought I'd mention it in case anyone here is interested. I've no connection with the sale. Seems a sensible price as it contains a Lister JP3M and Blackstone box in claimed good running condition.

 

Clicky

 

Anyone know any more about this boat?

 

 

Mike

 

The name of this boat was ST. TUDNO when I last photographed it at Rickmansworth on 19 May 2007. At that time it was owned by the people who had the tea room / cafe at Cowley Lock.

 

The engine in May 2007 was a 1962 Lister JS3, not that it makes much difference.

[alan_fincher]

I think you have to look at this as a Bantock hull needing work, and an engine, possibly also needing work, but probably not much else......

 

I'm not convinced it's any kind of bargain.

 

What's been done to the back end to motorise it looks "unfortunate", IMO!

 

A very nice looking front end though, that is prettier to me than something modern on a boat maybe 10 times the price!

[greywolf]

It is also on the butty section on Apollo duck. Originally priced at £15000 taken off for a while then put on again at the reduced price.

[Kez]

A bantock? She looks alot like an station boat to me..

Edited August 16, 2011 by Kez

[Timleech]

A bantock? She looks alot like an station boat to me..

 

Definitely a Bantock, not an LMS/Yarwoods station boat.

Not to say it might not have been built for (GWR?) railway use, though, I'm not too well up on the history of these.

 

I suspect that this may be a boat which was at Preston Brook in the late 1960s. There used to be a lay-by almost opposite the end of the Runcorn arm at Preston Brook, before the M56 was built, and two of these were kept there by a father and son. The one on the outside, the father's boat, sank with gunwales well under, it was just an open hull. I had the job of raising it, to allow the inner boat to escape. This involved heavy wooden beams across between the floating boat and the Lapwing on the outside, at each end of the two, and chain hoists etc to physically lift the sunken boat until the gunwales broke surface.

Some years later, converted, it was re-bottomed with timber on the bank at Preston Brook, about the same time as a late model JP?K?S? 3 was fitted.

I think after that it was kept at Walton on the Bridgewater for some years.

 

Interesting point, if it's in Doncaster and in poor condition, getting it to the narrow canals if that's what a prospective buyer wants might be a bit of an adventure

 

Edit to clarify - if it's the boat I think it is, this was the floating one. The one we raised I'm fairly sure was scrapped.

 

Tim

Edited August 16, 2011 by Timleech

[Kez]

Definitely a Bantock, not an LMS/Yarwoods station boat.

Not to say it might not have been built for (GWR?) railway use, though, I'm not too well up on the history of these.

 

 

Think I should have clarified what I meant; I didn't mean an LMS boat, I think she looks more like the boats I've seen in photos that are classed just as "interchangable station boats"

 

I thought the supposed mk1, mk2, mk3 bantocks that people talk about refered to the boats Mr Bantock built for other people, as opposed to his own GWR serving fleet?

[Timleech]

Think I should have clarified what I meant; I didn't mean an LMS boat, I think she looks more like the boats I've seen in photos that are classed just as "interchangable station boats"

 

I thought the supposed mk1, mk2, mk3 bantocks that people talk about refered to the boats Mr Bantock built for other people, as opposed to his own GWR serving fleet?

 

All a bit esoteric for me.The LMS boats are the only ones I've known as 'station boats', but then I'm not a serious boat gricer so what do I know

 

As far as I'm concerned it's 'one-of-those-composite-boats-built-by-Bantocks-with-a-horrible-wooden-bottom-strake', you can call it what you like!

 

Tim

[pete harrison]

 

I suspect that this may be a boat which was at Preston Brook in the late 1960s. There used to be a lay-by almost opposite the end of the Runcorn arm at Preston Brook, before the M56 was built, and two of these were kept there by a father and son. The one on the outside, the father's boat, sank with gunwales well under, it was just an open hull. I had the job of raising it, to allow the inner boat to escape. This involved heavy wooden beams across between the floating boat and the Lapwing on the outside, at each end of the two, and chain hoists etc to physically lift the sunken boat until the gunwales broke surface.

Some years later, converted, it was re-bottomed with timber on the bank at Preston Brook, about the same time as a late model JP?K?S? 3 was fitted.

I think after that it was kept at Walton on the Bridgewater for some years.

 

Edit to clarify - if it's the boat I think it is, this was the floating one. The one we raised I'm fairly sure was scrapped.

 

Tim

 

This pretty much matches up with the history I have for this boat. I believe this boat may well have previously been one of the two ash boats operated by Henry Seddon & Sons Ltd.. Unfortunately the history I have starts for certain in 1979 by which time it was fully converted and motorised, named NORTON. I then have a bit of a gap from 1984 to 2003 !

[pete harrison]

Think I should have clarified what I meant; I didn't mean an LMS boat, I think she looks more like the boats I've seen in photos that are classed just as "interchangable station boats"

 

I thought the supposed mk1, mk2, mk3 bantocks that people talk about refered to the boats Mr Bantock built for other people, as opposed to his own GWR serving fleet?

 

I think you mean 'Interchange boats' that were in fact of no particular style and operated between factories and railway interchange basins where the loads would be 'interchanged' from boat to railway wagon. This type of operation was most prolific on the B.C.N..

 

Between September 1928 and January 1939 W.J. Yarwood & Sons Ltd., Northwich built several batches (and a few individual) riveted iron narrow boats for the L.M.S. Railway Co., a few having cabins and full running gear but all having fine lines - something fairly unusual for boats built to trade on the B.C.N.. It is these very attractive narrow boats that are usually referred to by enthusiasts as "Station Boats", and they were so good that 'British Waterways' converted several into long distance buttys in the 1950's. There is still a strong market for these boats today.

 

Many of the boats built by Thomas Bantock were for his own use, or at least in his capacity as an agent for the G.W.R. Co.. These are generally what enthusiasts now call "Mk 2 Bantocks". The "Mk 1 Bantocks" (enthusiast term) have a similar but finer shape - with many being traced back to the mid 1800's. St TUDNO is one of these boats. I can not see where the "Mk 3 Bantock" fits in, or even identify one !

[Laurence Hogg]

Think I should have clarified what I meant; I didn't mean an LMS boat, I think she looks more like the boats I've seen in photos that are classed just as "interchangable station boats"

 

I thought the supposed mk1, mk2, mk3 bantocks that people talk about refered to the boats Mr Bantock built for other people, as opposed to his own GWR serving fleet?

 

Where are you getting these terms from? There is no such thing as a "Interchanganble station boats". There were interchange basins which were owned by railway companies. The LMS and GWR had a number of boats which operated from these places, the boats in some cases were inhereted from pre grouping companies ie LNWR and the MR. There is no such thing as a Mk1, 2 or 3 Bantock, these are enthusiast terms of modern times, theres also no "Station" boats as such, this was a term invented in the late 1950's for LMS boats converted to proper cabin buttys, these boats were built by Yarwoods and their design was influenced by the former Shropshire Union boats many of which in their latter days were used as day boats by the railway companies.

Bantocks built mainly for themselves a fleet shared with the GWR and having a fleet number system which encompassed both concerns. they did build a few boats for private buyers and they certainly built some fully fitted long distance horse boats.

The original Bantock built boat had a wooden lower strake and bottom, hence the dog leg knees evident in some boats, the next generation boats had iron sides and bottoms and were not so fine lined having knee iron instead of proper guards. The last boats they built had a few very subtle differences to the bow and stern.

Edited August 16, 2011 by Laurence Hogg

[Derek R.]

(snipped)

The original Bantock built boat had a wooden lower strake and bottom, hence the dog leg knees evident in some boats, the next generation boats had iron sides and bottoms and were not so fine lined having knee iron instead of proper guards. The last boats they built had a few very subtle differences to the bow and stern.

 

There are seldom Mk1 anythings, it's not until an 'improved' version comes out that an 'original' becomes known as a Mk1. Certainly true of several motor vehicles. Nowadays we speak of Moto-Guzzi Le-Mans Mk1, and as there were at least three that followed with the same name, when the second version came out, the original was coined Mk1', though never carried any identification as such. It was just the Le-Mans.

 

The Generation Game. Perhaps as problems entailed made changes necessary - a second came along, but enthusiasts are quick to adapt some sort of title, hence Mk. It may at times help define things when greater details are not known or understood - until they are.

[Timleech]

There are seldom Mk1 anythings, it's not until an 'improved' version comes out that an 'original' becomes known as a Mk1. Certainly true of several motor vehicles. Nowadays we speak of Moto-Guzzi Le-Mans Mk1, and as there were at least three that followed with the same name, when the second version came out, the original was coined Mk1', though never carried any identification as such. It was just the Le-Mans.

 

The Generation Game. Perhaps as problems entailed made changes necessary - a second came along, but enthusiasts are quick to adapt some sort of title, hence Mk. It may at times help define things when greater details are not known or understood - until they are.

 

I don't see the boats which now seem to be known as the 'MkII' as a development of the supposed 'MkI', they are generally much cruder in their construction. I've never delved deeply into their history but I imagine they were built for different purposes?

 

Tim

[Derek R.]

I suppose 'development' can go both ways - lack of time/money/incentive!! - Or as suggested - different use. Certainly the purists of the Guzzi Marque will declare the original the best! (though it had its faults).