Faulty Calor gas bottles

[Guest wanted]

Back to the original post, it seems to be an ongoing problem, perhaps its the POL connection (the male bit) on the regulator that is at fault?

 

On changing a bottle I always remove the plastic plug then just crack open the bottle valve to blow any grit and muck out of the thread before making the connection. There is absolutely no need to hit the spanner with anything to amke a sound connection.

on the bank, before putting it in the locker of course

 

wiping your finger around the seal faces has a similar effect. I was told that Propane is really corrosive and that bottles have a shelf life. I imagine that bits of crap from the inside bottle walls can work there way into the connections thus obstructing the seal.

 

I agree that you 'shouldn't' have to hit the spanner to seal them and on nice shiny connectors it's usually fine but when they get a bit worn then I find it seems to work. If I had to do it every time on my boat then I would either change the rg or talk to the supplier but when we change over the big bottls for events we dont always have that option.

 

 

Eddited to add a couple of E E's !

Edited March 18, 2011 by wanted

[John C]

on the bank, before putting it in the locker of course

 

No, when the bottle is secure in the gas locker, one hand working the valve and the other ready to fit the regulator. The point is to get rid of any muck immediately before connection.

 

Best not do it while having a fag though.

[Guest]

on the bank, before putting it in the locker of course

 

ETA to say I think I agree with John C on this - as our (???all) gas locker has two drain bottom corners holes which I guess are to allow any escaped gas to 'flow' out - would this not be enough to dissipate any such small amount of gas in order that you can do this 'blast out' at the very last minute after you heaved and lowered the bottle into the locker and remove the 'bung...'

Edited March 18, 2011 by MJG

[Guest]

We used to crack the valves on the 47Kg bottles on the back of the wagon, often to blow out grit, and get rid of "overfilling." I once made a fog across the East Lancs Rd doing this trick.

[TandC]

Thanks for the guidance - the hoses/connectors are only a year old so are not worn, although i guess there is the potential for some dirt to get on them/in the thread of the bottle when changing. I'd feel marginally guilty if it hadnt been included in the BSC gas inspection in the summer that one of the bottles was faulty, so it does happen. Hey ho - i'll get my free replacement bottle tonight and take extra care in future, that way i will know for sure that it is the bottle, not user error...!

[shugie]

My bet is that there is some crap on either sealing surface, or a slight nic in the brass. Worth blowing out the bottle 'ole and cleaning the male reg end as well each time you change. We run a pyro show using a ton of propane over three days at glasto and over the years I have noticed what seems to be a slight variation in the thread size. Nowt that a good spanner and wack with rawhide mallet wont sort.

 

 

 

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You one of the bonkers fire people in Arcadia then? Watched that from the hill up to the campervan field on more than one occasion, looks very spectacular from above. Always wondered how much gas you got through, well worth it mind, one of the best non-stage things there.

[Mike Jordan]

Ive had calor propane cylinders on two occasions that leaked at the point where the valve was tightened into the neck of the cylinder.I was fortunate to get away with one of them, it was in use on an oxy propane cutting set and filled the workshop with gas overnight.On taking the offending items back with "leaking" writen on they were replaced with new and then popped in the empties cage presumably to leak until they were exhausted.

Mike.

[Radiomariner]

Ive had calor propane cylinders on two occasions that leaked at the point where the valve was tightened into the neck of the cylinder.I was fortunate to get away with one of them, it was in use on an oxy propane cutting set and filled the workshop with gas overnight.On taking the offending items back with "leaking" writen on they were replaced with new and then popped in the empties cage presumably to leak until they were exhausted.

Mike.

 

 

Well, they would not wish to knowingly transport a leaking cylinder. How did you transport it by the way?

Edited March 27, 2011 by Radiomariner

[XAlan W]

When I ran my Hotel boat the gas connectors to the propane cylinders had a dome shaped replaceable rubber washer on the male connector similar to the dome tap washers. Held in place by a small ridge on the end, +it had a hand wheel as well as spanner flats. Over the time period of hoteling they were changed many times & Cannot recall having a leak problem & can only recall changing the washer on one occasion. Is this type of fitting no longer available?

[Radiomariner]

edited to highlight that the gas was not leaking past the valve but at the neck of the bottle

[Mike Jordan]

I should make it clear that neither of these leaks was of a size which would have been likely to be spotted had the cylinders been stored in a properly vented gas locker on a boat, rather than a confined space overnight.

They were both transported back to the suppliers in the purpose made cradle in a tool transporting trailer being used to carry all the gear for a boat building job.

[Guest wanted]

You one of the bonkers fire people in Arcadia then? Watched that from the hill up to the campervan field on more than one occasion, looks very spectacular from above. Always wondered how much gas you got through, well worth it mind, one of the best non-stage things there.

Coolio, wait till this year, new field, more room and bigger box of tricks!

[stewart&jenny]

 

 

 

And just while we are talking gas, members of the RBOA get a discount off Flogas prices, and they deliver. But you have to be a member to get this discount.

 

 

Start of ........

 

That is interesting. We were given a 47Kg flogas bottle (full) by a neighbour just in time for the cold spell! It's now empty and I was pondering the possibility of carrying a full bottle strapped to the front end ready for use as a stand-by next winter ......... upon discussion with Jenny, it appears the space has been / will be taken up by a container full of spuds

 

Am now looking at what the RBOA offers

 

End of

[stewart&jenny]

When I ran my Hotel boat the gas connectors to the propane cylinders had a dome shaped replaceable rubber washer on the male connector similar to the dome tap washers. Held in place by a small ridge on the end, +it had a hand wheel as well as spanner flats. Over the time period of hoteling they were changed many times & Cannot recall having a leak problem & can only recall changing the washer on one occasion. Is this type of fitting no longer available?

 

I found so much gas leaking from the standard 13Kg propane cylinders that I went off to:

 

http://www.bes.co.uk/

 

and bought 2 new leads with rubber washers. Now I can happily tighten up the leads hand tight and be reasonably content they not leaking.

 

One more point. Previously I would have left the cylinder unconnected until needed. The last pair of cylinders just bought, I connected up both. The second cylinder, as soon as I unscrewed the black insert, it nearly gave me frostbite because the cylinder had been turned on !!!! I cannot believe this had been done on purpose but it does make you think! Certainly, an awful lot of gas would have escaped by the time I came to connect up, and no I wouldn't be able to smell it because I have lost my sense of smell

[Sir Nibble]

When we went for training to the gas suppliers, we were told to NEVER strike the spanner!!

Metal striking metal/spark/gas leak/bang! At least use a rubber mallet

Sounds like good advice, or is it paranoia? Anyone ever struck a spark from a blow steel to steel?

Honest question.

[Guest]

Honest answer - paranoia.

 

When you are attaching or removing the regulator the bottle should have the tap turned off surely - thus even if a spark was generated there would simply not be enough (or any) concentration of gas to ignite....

 

For years I have often used a tap of the mallet on the spanner to undo a regulator (never to tighten though) - I'm still here.

[canaldrifter]

Sounds like good advice, or is it paranoia? Anyone ever struck a spark from a blow steel to steel?

Honest question.

 

I've done it steel to stone (Clog Morris)!

 

You would need a hell of a big gas leak and one hell of a blow to cause an explosion through tightening a gas bottle connection with a spanner and a steel-headed club hammer.

 

Leak testing around a gas bottle connection is always a good idea, as is only turning on one bottle at a time. And no matter what the trade says, for the amount of leakage we are looking for, a washing up liquid solution works just fine. Rinse it off afterwards.

 

Tone

[churchward]

Calor fix the price so it should be the same wherever you buy it from...

Today we paid £23.49 for a 13Kg bottle. There is no such thing as a fixed price on such goods. Calor will be able to set a Recommended Retail Price but it is only a guide.

[Guest]

Today we paid £23.49 for a 13Kg bottle. There is no such thing as a fixed price on such goods. Calor will be able to set a Recommended Retail Price but it is only a guide.

 

So it seems cheers -

Edited April 10, 2011 by MJG

[W+T]

Hello all, i have been reading through most of thisn thread and find it interesting, i work for a Calor agent and have done for 9 years now, very cushy job i have to say

 

A few points from me from what i have learned, well i say learned maybe experianced.

 

To check for leaks you are best to use a manufactured one for the job, of course but if not a VERY diluted washing up liquid solution.

 

DO NOT add oils/grease to the thread infact anywhere around the regulator, LPG and oils/grease dont get on, sorry cant remeber the clever name for it.

 

LPG will only ignite with the correct air to gas ratio with the correct tempreture to ignite it, i would give an example to try but i dont want sewing if you blow yourself up

 

I fit cylinders every day and when i do i always make sure the valve is closed before the bung is removed, the bung will hold in the gas if the valve is open slightly. I never use a hammer or tool to tighten it, if you do you need to get a replacment regulator soon....ish, the tighter you do it up the more damage you will do to it, long term, even more so if it has muck in it.

 

We have a few cylinders returned to us a month, either damaged thread, leaking, over filled etc etc, all we do is give the customer a replacement and we send it back to Calor, any decent outlet should do the same, it doesnt cost them a penny.

 

Some of our customers more recently (H&S sticking there nose in) can only stock a certain amount of cylinders in there cages/pound, eother full or empty, as in returned, as they dont know how much gas is in the cylinder, thats the only reason i can think why a supplier wouldnt take the extra cylinders.

 

OOoooo what a load of drivel i just wrote

[muddywaters]

Some of the explanations regards grit muck preventing a proper seal may explain what happened to us on a hire boat last year then.

We where given 4 gas bottles for the week (a little excessive I thought as usually we only use one and a half bottles) anyway we had been shown what order to ue them in but when the first ran out we switched over to the second and it was empty.

There again maybe we had just been given an empty bottle in error lol

[W+T]

Some of the explanations regards grit muck preventing a proper seal may explain what happened to us on a hire boat last year then.

We where given 4 gas bottles for the week (a little excessive I thought as usually we only use one and a half bottles) anyway we had been shown what order to ue them in but when the first ran out we switched over to the second and it was empty.

There again maybe we had just been given an empty bottle in error lol

 

 

We get that a lot, we get customers saying we have delivered an empty cylinder, its always by .........mmm need to be politicaly correct now.....pikeys, they love to try it on.

[Nose Miner]

I quite often find calor bottles that leak at the valve. Usually this is just let by leaking (valve failing to cut off properly) so doesn't escape to the environment. But if the bottle is left unconnected and has the little black plug removed, you can end up loosing a fair bit of gas. The lesson is, always leave the plug in until you want to connect the bottle.

[dontpanic]

I bought Calor gas from Fred Tarry's nr Weedon at £25.49 this month.

 

After buying the bottle my gas went out, so I changed the gas bottle as you do, but no gas! I checked the connections but everything looked fine, it did occur to me that I might have been sold a dud though I never like to think this sort of thing of people, so when I pulled in at Willy Watts on the Nene for a replacement bottle I was still open to the idea that it might not be the bottles fault but my systems. I am so glad that I did pull in there with an open mind, and so glad that I had a chat with the guys working there because they were wonderful. They suggested seeing if there was still some liquid in the bottles which there was, in both of them!! Next step we undid the connections and put them back on again and hey presto it worked. They thought it might have been an airlock.

 

So I drove away with a smile, two working gas bottles all free of charge but I hope this post is a good word of mouth plug for them

 

Dontpanic