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Advice on ceiling timber wanted

starman

By starman
in Boat Building & Maintenance

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starman Experienced

starman

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We want to line our ceiling with T&G and then paint it rather than varnish finish. The 'standard' pine T&G you get is generally rather knotty which always causes problems when painting I find even if you treat the knots. The timber merchant suggested a knot free hardwood alternative (sorry can't remember the name) but at a cost of £500-£600 for a 20ft length of ceiling as it has to be specially machined. That rather took my breath away! Can anyone recommend a more reasonable alternative? I've even contemplated the dreaded vee-grooved MDF but I suspect its lack of rigidity might be a problem even if its damp resistance was ok.

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Mike Jordan Community Regular

Mike Jordan

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That sounds like a rather expensive hardwood! You could try asking about a better grade of softwood, for example unsorted grade pine, this can be almost totaly knot free in the thinner sections (25mm before planing) douglas fir is also knot free but costs a little more than the pine. Tell the supplier what you are trying to achieve and they will usually be able to fix you up. It sometimes pays to adjust the width of the boarding you order to reflect the size in stock at the merchants, that can save you a lot of cash since you wont be paying for material wasted as the merchant rips the boards to width. Ive had Brooks Bros of Nottingham machine a batch at reasonable cost in the past.I think they have branches near you.

Mike

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WotEver Veteran II

WotEverDonate to Canal World

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Posted

You probably wont like this, but I used sheets of waterproof MDF routed down and painted white.

No such thing :P

 

Hey, I'm just finishing off some new steps made out of veneered MDF... it'll be interesting to see how they stand up to the environment.

 

Tony

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soldthehouse Influencer

soldthehouse

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That sounds like a rather expensive hardwood! You could try asking about a better grade of softwood, for example unsorted grade pine, this can be almost totaly knot free in the thinner sections (25mm before planing) douglas fir is also knot free but costs a little more than the pine. Tell the supplier what you are trying to achieve and they will usually be able to fix you up. It sometimes pays to adjust the width of the boarding you order to reflect the size in stock at the merchants, that can save you a lot of cash since you wont be paying for material wasted as the merchant rips the boards to width. Ive had Brooks Bros of Nottingham machine a batch at reasonable cost in the past.I think they have branches near you.

Mike

Agree with this,unassorted softwood is classified as virtually free of knots and defects and should be in the order of about 25% more than your "standard" softwood machinings. Swedish 5ths are also very "clear with regards knot and defect. Any decent timber machine shop will be happy to run the quantity your after. There is also the modern pitch pine which we get locally for 11.95 cu ft plus machining, Its not in the same league as the older reclaimed suff but for painting will be fine

Edited by soldthehouse
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WotEver Veteran II

WotEverDonate to Canal World

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Tony where can you get veneered M.D.F in the local area.Do Brockwells do it?

Hi,

 

I've not found a supplier local to me, but I work in Birmingham, and there are plenty of suppliers there. The last time I bought a few 4x8 Ash veneered I got them from BGN boards: http://www.bgn.co.uk/index.htm. I had them deliver to work, but they'd probably deliver out to Atherstone. In Birmingham there's also Arnold Laver: http://www.laver.co.uk/birmingham.asp

 

And there are also many others in Brum that I've not used (but who might be better for all I know).

 

Cheers,

Tony

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Albion Influencer

Albion

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No such thing :P

 

Hey, I'm just finishing off some new steps made out of veneered MDF... it'll be interesting to see how they stand up to the environment.

 

Tony

 

OK oh wise one :P an explanation required please. To my knowledge there are 3 types of MDF.

1. Plain brown, normal, not water resistant at all.

2. Light green, water resistant.

3. Light blue, water-proof. (Never used this one but have been told about it).

 

I'm using some water resistant at the moment that I had to buy in specially but, I'm told there is the water-proof version around also. I do know someone who did a deliberate experiment by putting some water resistant (green) stuff in a tank of water for months and he told me that there was no deterioration visible.

 

So, my question is, is there a water proof proof version around or have I been given duff info. The info came from a very reliable source BTW who use MDF (water resistant) a lot.

Roger

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WotEver Veteran II

WotEverDonate to Canal World

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So, my question is, is there a water proof proof version around or have I been given duff info.

No idea. If your source was reliable then I'd believe him before me ;)

 

I can see that the resins used could be waterproof, but the wood fibres (hmm... paper) that form the substrate are still going to be absorbent, unless maybe the resin so completely surrounds them that they're impervious to moisture? My steps are finished with hard wax oil with special attention given to cut edges (which soaked it up like a good 'un).

 

So, I've not heard of totally waterproof MDF, but that doesn't necessarily mean anything - I'm an amateur woodworker. Perhaps one of the professionals knows?

 

Tony

 

Oh, I left some green stuff outside as an experiment one winter - it was destroyed by the spring.

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starman Experienced

starman

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OK oh wise one :P an explanation required please. To my knowledge there are 3 types of MDF.

1. Plain brown, normal, not water resistant at all.

2. Light green, water resistant.

3. Light blue, water-proof. (Never used this one but have been told about it).

 

I'm using some water resistant at the moment that I had to buy in specially but, I'm told there is the water-proof version around also. I do know someone who did a deliberate experiment by putting some water resistant (green) stuff in a tank of water for months and he told me that there was no deterioration visible.

 

So, my question is, is there a water proof proof version around or have I been given duff info. The info came from a very reliable source BTW who use MDF (water resistant) a lot.

Roger

 

There's certainly an 'exterior grade' MDF which is different to the green moisture resistant type. Quote from data about it:

 

"Medite Exterior(EN 622-H2) is used as a substitute for softwood, hardwood, plywood, plastic and metal in non-stressed applications. It can be used for a wide range of external applications including: External signs, shop fronts and external woodwork including fascias, exterior mouldings, door parts - raised and fielded panels, garden furniture components, exterior display stands, marine craft interiors and sports score boards."

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Albion Influencer

Albion

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There's certainly an 'exterior grade' MDF which is different to the green moisture resistant type. Quote from data about it:

 

"Medite Exterior(EN 622-H2) is used as a substitute for softwood, hardwood, plywood, plastic and metal in non-stressed applications. It can be used for a wide range of external applications including: External signs, shop fronts and external woodwork including fascias, exterior mouldings, door parts - raised and fielded panels, garden furniture components, exterior display stands, marine craft interiors and sports score boards."

 

Ah, thanks, that sounds like the stuff. Sounds as if it is quite useful but, like all MDF, not particularly good for load bearing applications.

Roger

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GSer Experienced

GSer

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We want to line our ceiling with T&G and then paint it rather than varnish finish. The 'standard' pine T&G you get is generally rather knotty which always causes problems when painting I find even if you treat the knots. The timber merchant suggested a knot free hardwood alternative (sorry can't remember the name) but at a cost of £500-£600 for a 20ft length of ceiling as it has to be specially machined. That rather took my breath away! Can anyone recommend a more reasonable alternative? I've even contemplated the dreaded vee-grooved MDF but I suspect its lack of rigidity might be a problem even if its damp resistance was ok.

 

 

I'm guessing thats about £6 per linear meter? Seems a bit steep to me, i've just ordered some more specially machined American white ash T&G (only 50lm though) and that costed out to £4.30plm

 

For my cabin ceiling lining I used standard T&G in ash and that cost £3.70plm as it was to be painted I chose standard T&G as I thought any repaints would be easier without the 'bead' of reed and bead styles trapping old paint.

 

A lot of the cabin ceilings I studied before choosing to go with hardwood left me with the conclusion that MDF/ply sheets whilst cheap, needed a joint every 8' that was something I didn't want it seemed to compartmentalise (?) the rooms with little or no benifit, alot of the soft wood T&G lining I studied had faults and evidence of distortion and splits especially on some of the more modern boats. Some of the pine cladded boats were great but these were quality boats and I could see the wood was thick and solid.

 

I initially decided to go with pine but an order I placed for 10LM of pine T&G had almost 30% faults on the boards (splits shakes and distortions) so I decided to bite the bullit and go with ash and so far the quality has been fautless (well, one or two faulty meter lengths max in 1000+LM of wood)

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romarni123 Rising Star

romarni123

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Hi,

 

I've not found a supplier local to me, but I work in Birmingham, and there are plenty of suppliers there. The last time I bought a few 4x8 Ash veneered I got them from BGN boards: http://www.bgn.co.uk/index.htm. I had them deliver to work, but they'd probably deliver out to Atherstone. In Birmingham there's also Arnold Laver: http://www.laver.co.uk/birmingham.asp

 

And there are also many others in Brum that I've not used (but who might be better for all I know).

 

Cheers,

Tony

Thanks Tony

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