Breasting Up

[alan_fincher]

That isnt always an option. You are just proving how little of the UK waterways you actually get out and see. Quite comical really

Trouble is you too are falling into the trap of relying on your expoerience that has made relatively little use of what most of us think of as "canals".

 

Only at the very most popular locations, at the very most popular times are you unlikely to be able to moor against a bank at all.#

 

Generally press on for another half hour (max) and you will have found somewhere perfectly adequate.

 

Fine if you must be within 100 yards of that particular pub. But generally, rather than be hemmed in in a crowd, I'd rather give a pub a miss that night, or perhaps just walk a bit further.

 

Where do you imagine the canal locations are where you really, really have no choice ? I can't think of many!

[Guest]

Trouble is you too are falling into the trap of relying on your expoerience that has made relatively little use of what most of us think of as "canals".

 

Only at the very most popular locations, at the very most popular times are you unlikely to be able to moor against a bank at all.#

 

Generally press on for another half hour (max) and you will have found somewhere perfectly adequate.

 

Fine if you must be within 100 yards of that particular pub. But generally, rather than be hemmed in in a crowd, I'd rather give a pub a miss that night, or perhaps just walk a bit further.

 

Where do you imagine the canal locations are where you really, really have no choice ? I can't think of many!

 

But the principal is the same surely?

 

It either is or isn't trespass irrespective of whether it's the canals or rivers...

[mayalld]

And what if you HAVE to let another boat raft up or you HAVE to raft up to another boat. I really hope one day David that you find yourself in the situation where you have no choice but to raft up, yet no one will allow you too. You may then see that your silly stance is nothing but being pig headed.

 

You may have had a bad experience in the past but that doesnt mean that everyone should be tarred with the same brush. We have met some very nice and interesting people through having to raft upto them. It isnt a matetr of choice you HAVE to raft up in some locations.

 

 

 

That isnt always an option. You are just proving how little of the UK waterways you actually get out and see. Quite comical really

 

Yes, there are cases where there is a genuine NEED, and in such cases, necessity overrides the rights of the boat breasted up to.

 

It must, however be a genuine need, rather than a disinclination to press on to use an alternative (and I do appreciate that the extent to which this happens is different on different waterways)

 

I haven't had A bad experience, I have had several bad experiences, despite having had good experiences with people moored along the towpath. This leads me to conclude that (so far as the canals, where breating up is seldom necessary, are concerned) those who seek to breast up are are unlikely to be considerate.

[carlt]

Of course not that would be tresspass

Dave is confusing trespass of land with trespass of property.

 

It is reasonable to assume that boats are designed to be able to be breasted up.

 

It is also reasonable to assume that boat decks can be walked across, without causing damage.

 

It is also reasonable to assume that the owner of the boat you have breasted up against, will move your boat, using reasonable care not to cause damage, if necessary.

 

Because of these reasonable assumptions no intent can be proven therefore no trespass has been committed.

 

Just stepping on somebody's land, without permission, can be deemed trespass.

 

This, despite Dave claiming otherwise, is not the case with chattels.

[Naughty Cal]

Trouble is you too are falling into the trap of relying on your expoerience that has made relatively little use of what most of us think of as "canals".

 

Only at the very most popular locations, at the very most popular times are you unlikely to be able to moor against a bank at all.#

 

Generally press on for another half hour (max) and you will have found somewhere perfectly adequate.

 

Fine if you must be within 100 yards of that particular pub. But generally, rather than be hemmed in in a crowd, I'd rather give a pub a miss that night, or perhaps just walk a bit further.

 

Where do you imagine the canal locations are where you really, really have no choice ? I can't think of many!

 

We have already established that on canals it doesnt tend to be an issue, you can move on and moor up to the towpath where ever you like (so long as you dont cause a navigational hazard.) The issue really arises on rivers because the banks are in private ownership so you cant just tie up where ever you fancy. Designated mooring spots are often your only choice, unless you fancy dropping anchor for the evening (maybe a better option for David then he can avoid human contact).

 

Saying you should have arrived earlier isnt really good enough. There are only a certain amount of mooring spaces avaliable on any given river navigation, if there are more boats out than spaces avaliable then a degree of give and take is necessary.

[sociable_hermit]

IIRC Dave's stance is that anybody who is idiot enough not to plan far enough ahead, and to allow enough time to find an alternate mooring, if their originally hoped for choice is full, deserves all they get.

Isn't that another way of saying, "I will make a practice of mooring up in the premium spots by 3pm every day, even though there's 5 hours boating left, thereby getting in the way of those needing a temporary berth (to go shopping, for example, or to the pub). I will effectively hog all the best moorings and attempt to force everyone else into only boating for half a day on the basis that boating is solely about "I was here first""??

 

How childish can you get?

[Naughty Cal]

Yes, there are cases where there is a genuine NEED, and in such cases, necessity overrides the rights of the boat breasted up to.

 

It must, however be a genuine need, rather than a disinclination to press on to use an alternative (and I do appreciate that the extent to which this happens is different on different waterways)

 

I haven't had A bad experience, I have had several bad experiences, despite having had good experiences with people moored along the towpath. This leads me to conclude that (so far as the canals, where breating up is seldom necessary, are concerned) those who seek to breast up are are unlikely to be considerate.

 

You have changed your tune.

 

So "several" bad experiences is enough to write off the whole boating population?

 

You dont have bad experiences with people moored in front of your boat, yet move the same person onto the side of your boat and they will cause a problem. I think the problem may well lie with you, not the other people

[alan_fincher]

We have already established that on canals it doesnt tend to be an issue,

 

Oh good, we have sorted that out, then!

 

So saying to Dave....

 

You are just proving how little of the UK waterways you actually get out and see. Quite comical really

 

you are really only saying

 

"Dave you may do a great deal of boating - but it appears that not a lot of it is on the rivers where mooring can be a real problem"

 

Not quite the same, is it ?

 

Quite comical, really!

[mayalld]

Dave,

 

What's your stance on crossing another boat in a lock or others crossing yours?

 

Is it more reasonable? - do you 'allow' it.

 

Yes, I usually do, although I seldom find anybody who believes that they have a right to do so.

 

I allow it on the basis that the reasons for not wanting people breasting up are largely concerned with the way that people will behave over a period of time, and that those considerations don't often apply when crossing a boat.

 

I can only recall one instance where I have had to take issue with somebody concerning crossing the boat, and that was a case when we were coming up Bosley, just started up the lock (so still very low in the chamber), and a crew member from the boat coming down jumped down onto our roof, landing with quite a thud.

 

You have changed your tune.

 

So "several" bad experiences is enough to write off the whole boating population?

 

 

Several bad experiences, amounting to almost every occasion when I have let somebody breast up.

[Naughty Cal]

 

 

 

 

you are really only saying

 

"Dave you may do a great deal of boating - but it appears that not a lot of it is on the rivers where mooring can be a real problem"

 

Not quite the same, is it ?

 

Quite comical, really!

 

Thats not what im saying at all no.

[mayalld]

Isn't that another way of saying, "I will make a practice of mooring up in the premium spots by 3pm every day, even though there's 5 hours boating left, thereby getting in the way of those needing a temporary berth (to go shopping, for example, or to the pub). I will effectively hog all the best moorings and attempt to force everyone else into only boating for half a day on the basis that boating is solely about "I was here first""??

 

How childish can you get?

 

No it is saying that "on the odd occasion when I want to moor at a premium spot, I appreciate that I must moor early"

[carlt]

No it is saying that "on the odd occasion when I want to moor at a premium spot, I appreciate that I must moor early"

...and, on that odd occasion, you may be required to tolerate somebody breasting up.

[mayalld]

...and, on that odd occasion, you may be required to tolerate somebody breasting up.

 

No.

 

Assuming that we are talking BW waters, then unless BW have used their s43 powers to mandate breasing up, I cannot be REQUIRED to tolerate it.

[Naughty Cal]

Several bad experiences, amounting to almost every occasion when I have let somebody breast up.

 

So, by your own admission, not everyone who rafts up is a person

 

" who wanted to breast up and have done so because they hadn't planned around finding a mooring, believed that they had a right to do so, and showed absolutely no consideration for others in terms of arriving back from the pub quietly, or in getting the brats NOT to keep running back and forth over our stern, upsetting the dogs."

 

Yet you still choose to alienate by far the vast majority of the boating population. I strongly suspect that you are not as antisocial as you like to make out because i find it hard to believe that you would uphold this stance in "real life"

 

No.

 

Assuming that we are talking BW waters, then unless BW have used their s43 powers to mandate breasing up, I cannot be REQUIRED to tolerate it.

 

So why moor in a premium spot on a popular mooring that you know is going to be busy of you dont want contact with the outside world?

[alan_fincher]

Thats not what im saying at all no.

 

OK, so what are you saying....

 

You said to Dave....

 

That isnt always an option. You are just proving how little of the UK waterways you actually get out and see. Quite comical really

 

I consider (assuming we have not had a pig of a year like we did last year!) we get out and see a great deal of the UK waterways in a year.

 

But I don't end up places I need to breast up with other boats overnight, except possibly central London.

 

By saying that, have I also just proved "how little of the UK waterways I actually get out and see", in your view, or not, then ?

[mayalld]

So, by your own admission, not everyone who rafts up is a person

 

" who wanted to breast up and have done so because they hadn't planned around finding a mooring, believed that they had a right to do so, and showed absolutely no consideration for others in terms of arriving back from the pub quietly, or in getting the brats NOT to keep running back and forth over our stern, upsetting the dogs."

 

Yet you still choose to alienate by far the vast majority of the boating population. I strongly suspect that you are not as antisocial as you like to make out because i find it hard to believe that you would uphold this stance in "real life"

 

Indeed not ALL have been antisocial, but the proportion who have been antisocial is frighteningly high.

[canaldrifter]

What is so interesting about watching a topic contributed to by a poster on an ignore list, is that you only get to see their posts when someone else has already pointed out how poorly thought out they are.

 

Back on topic if ever I see Dave's boat moored anywhere I am going to breast up against it, just to see what happens.

 

For my part I'll put the kettle on, get the beer out, and even put the dog on her lead, but I would love to talk, and to know what kind of 'Business Analyst' he is, when he so often comes up with such.... shall we say.... politely.... alternative arguments.

 

Tone

[Chris Pink]

No.

 

Assuming that we are talking BW waters, then unless BW have used their s43 powers to mandate breasing up, I cannot be REQUIRED to tolerate it.

 

So watcha gonna do then Dave?

 

Scenario; boat turns up, says "alright to breast up" you say 'no" they give you a slightly quizzical look and carry on anyway, because the asking was solely a courtesy.

 

So what are you going to do then?

[Naughty Cal]

What is so interesting about watching a topic contributed to by a poster on an ignore list, is that you only get to see their posts when someone else has already pointed out how poorly thought out they are.

 

Back on topic if ever I see Dave's boat moored anywhere I am going to breast up against it, just to see what happens.

 

For my part I'll put the kettle on, get the beer out, and even put the dog on her lead, but I would love to talk, and to know what kind of 'Business Analyst' he is, when he so often comes up with such.... shall we say.... politely.... alternative arguments.

 

Tone

 

And i shall raft on the side of you. That should be interesting

 

So watcha gonna do then Dave?

 

Scenario; boat turns up, says "alright to breast up" you say 'no" they give you a slightly quizzical look and carry on anyway, because the asking was solely a courtesy.

 

So what are you going to do then?

 

Stand there, red faced, mouth boboing up and down like a goldfish with steam coming from his ears, probably.

[mayalld]

 

So why moor in a premium spot on a popular mooring that you know is going to be busy of you dont want contact with the outside world?

 

Who said that I don't want contact with the outside world?

 

I'm quite happy to have contact with the outside world, but we equally like to decide what we are doing for ourselves. We enjoy early starts, and like to turn in early too, so if somebody else wants to return to their boat at midnight, and have a lie in, this isn't going to work.

 

As to mooring in a premium spot, are premium spots only for those who want to socialise continuously with others? I may want to moore there, because it is convenient for a favourite pub or restaurant.

[carlt]

No.

 

Assuming that we are talking BW waters, then unless BW have used their s43 powers to mandate breasing up, I cannot be REQUIRED to tolerate it.

...and yet you have no power, under the law, to prevent it.

 

I assume, because you have stopped debating the point, that you have privately acknowledged, to yourself, that you are wrong, regarding your belief that a trespass has occurred.

[mayalld]

So watcha gonna do then Dave?

 

Scenario; boat turns up, says "alright to breast up" you say 'no" they give you a slightly quizzical look and carry on anyway, because the asking was solely a courtesy.

 

So what are you going to do then?

 

Behave just as inconsiderately as you have done.

[Chertsey]

Whilst I might not agree with Dave's somewhat hard line position on breasting up, it is undeniable that he is one of the relatively small proportion of people on this forum (and in this thread) who is interested in actually making an argument and supporting it with evidence rather than just indulging in games playing and name calling. Far from what I understood a troll to be.

[canaldrifter]

And i shall raft on the side of you. That should be interesting

 

 

 

Betta bring plenty of beer then......

 

..... that could be the basis of one hell of a banter!

 

Tone

[Naughty Cal]

Who said that I don't want contact with the outside world?

 

I'm quite happy to have contact with the outside world, but we equally like to decide what we are doing for ourselves. We enjoy early starts, and like to turn in early too, so if somebody else wants to return to their boat at midnight, and have a lie in, this isn't going to work.

 

As to mooring in a premium spot, are premium spots only for those who want to socialise continuously with others? I may want to moore there, because it is convenient for a favourite pub or restaurant.

 

Having a boat rafted onto the side of yours doesnt mean you have to live in each others pockets. You are allowed to ignore them if you wish. You can also talk to them and dicuss your plans, maybe even suggest you go on the outside if you plan an early start. Its a great think talking to people, you find out a lot of interesting information.