Single fuel -V- Multi fuels

[Guest]

 

Not possible to edit on a handheld if the message extends beyond the screen as there is no scroll facility.

 

 

Are you using an iPhone??

 

If so hold your finger on the message you want to edit untill a 'bubble' appears, you can then scroll down....took me a monthe to find that one.

[Dominic M]

 

Are you using an iPhone??

 

If so hold your finger on the message you want to edit untill a 'bubble' appears, you can then scroll down....took me a monthe to find that one.

Ahhh! It was only by accident I found the Caps Lock trick. Thanks.

[Guest]

Ahhh! It was only by accident I found the Caps Lock trick. Thanks.

 

Still

 

go on then - I've not cracked that one yet....

 

 

oh hang on forget it - a double tap - sneaky

Edited November 16, 2010 by MJG

[blackrose]

The jury's out on the cost of running it at the moment because I need a whole winter to assess it. With coal at its current price I reckon in a cold spell that'll be £30 a week to run the stove though, and I doubt I'll be spending more than that on diesel for an object that supplies heating throughout, all the cooking, and hot water. But people don't do everything just because it's cheap, otherwise everybody would be driving around in a Kia Picanto wearing nothing but clothes from Matalan and drinking only water.

 

I agree, it's your hard-earned money and you should spend it as you wish, but I'd be very surprised if it's not a lot more than £30/week to run that Aga in winter. Personally I have other things to spend my money on rather than fuel.

 

By the way, how do you cook in summer? Do you have gas as well?

Edited November 16, 2010 by blackrose

[jenlyn]

No way you can heat your boat cheaper with deisel than coal, i spent months researching it when i fitted my boat, oh, and after xmas, deisel will up price significantly. Be prepared

[Pretty Funked Up]

Maintenance on my stove, ... a new chimney for about £35 every year.

 

That seems extreme! the flu I got is 5mm rolled steel (£12/metre), I expect it will outlast the stove time will tell.

 

PS. I do enjoy reading your informative replies keep up the good work

[Dominic M]

I agree, it's your hard-earned money and you should spend it as you wish, but I'd be very surprised if it's not a lot more than £30/week to run that Aga in winter. Personally I have other things to spend my money on rather than fuel.

 

By the way, how do you cook in summer? Do you have gas as well?

No, we cook on it all year round. I was very sceptical when we bought the boat in May about using it to cook in hot weather but the previous owner came with a good write up from a mutual friend (the boat builder as it happens) and he swore that it was fine. He was right. This is where one needs to pick and choose. Some diesel fired boat ranges only have a single burner, so they do everything or nothing. This (a Sandyford) is designed for houses rather than boats, is the same as a full size Aga, and has two burners. One for cooking, one for heating. When we picked the boat up in May, it was sweltering weather, which lasted right through June, so I certainly found out quickly. I'm very partial to roasting both meat and veg on a regular basis, and it was brilliant. The galley certainly got warm, as it would whatever you were roasting something in, but with the side hatches open it was fine. Since May I have put 400 litres into the tank so, at 70p/litre, that's £280 in 6 months. I don't run the heating side 24/7 - any more than I would with c/h in a house. The 12 tog duvet at night is fine for me. It comes on in the morning, goes off around 8:30, on again in the evening. I find Roger Gunkel's £2,500 p.a. gobsmacking. I'd be horrified if I was spending that heating a 3 bedroom house.

 

Edited to add: Actually less than that cost, because I've not taken into account about 80 hours of cruising.

Edited November 16, 2010 by Dominic M

[Dominic M]

No way you can heat your boat cheaper with deisel than coal, i spent months researching it when i fitted my boat, oh, and after xmas, deisel will up price significantly. Be prepared

Hi. I'm not convinced that coal is significantly cheaper, if cheaper at all. It depends on what type of diesel heating you have. I suspect that if you rely on diesel central heating from an Eberspacher/Mikuni/Webasto it would work out quite expensive (I don't have first hand experience of using one, but I talk to enough people who do have them). But the diesel drip feed stoves are different beasts altogether. Oil prices may well continue to rise - they have gone up significantly in the last 3 months, but, as I said earlier, coal will increase in price with it, as much of the cost of coal is the transportation, which relies on oil for the ship, lorry and even canal boat that transports it. People who have woodburners in their homes will tell you that unless you have your own woodland, wood as a fuel is a very expensive luxury nowadays.

[nb Innisfree]

Taking into account fluctuating differences between fuel prices over time, I think they probably all work out the same per £ per kwh whatever type of heater is used, this doesn't include extra cost of fuel to replace electricity consumed by Eber/Webasto/Mikuni etc.

[Sunset Rising]

<snip. I think they probably all work out the same per £ per kwh whatever type of heater is used,

 

I believe you are probably right.

 

Which brings me back to my original question. Convenience of single fuel -V- safety of multifuel ( in the sence of lose one, lose all )

[Morat]

Would it be possible to have a backup in the form of an engine run calorifier "in the circuit" somewhere so that you can at least use the engine to heat the boat? That way, if you're on a shoreline you can use electric radiators as a temporary measure and if you're not on a shoreline then I assume you're out and about and will be using the engine to charge the batteries....or motor as fast as you can to somewhere to fix the thing

[John R]

We have a multifuel stove. The main reason was flexibility and reduced dependance on diesel /gas but the clincher was meeting 2 people who had suffered small diesel leaks from there systems. They could not get rid if the smell of diesel once traces had got in the underfloor cavity.

[PhilR]

My personal lottery win boat would be be all diesel with a range cooker/boiler supplemented by solar panels and a wind generator.

Of course, in that particular world there would be plenty of sunshine, very little rain and just balmy breezes for the windmill!

 

 

A diesel range would be great in winter, but make the boat unbearably hot on those really hot summer days. But you could have a microwave and gas hob too?

[Dominic M]

I believe you are probably right.

 

Which brings me back to my original question. Convenience of single fuel -V- safety of multifuel ( in the sence of lose one, lose all )

It has to be true that two separate fuel sources help insure against failure, but they don't have to be different fuels. If you have a diesel room stove such as the Kabola, it is advisable to have a separate diesel tank at the front. This is sometimes in the form of a converted cockpit locker, or built crossways at the front of the cockpit. Make it as big as possible - having to constantly refill it is a pain.

 

Don't get me wrong, solid/multi fuel stoves are great. But they do create a lot of dust, you have to store the fuel somewhere, and however good you are at keeping it going, sooner or later you will have to go through the process of making paper balls, finding bits of kindling and then sitting there with your teeth chattering waiting for it to catch alight properly. Many people like that whole process - I think it appeals to some deep rooted primordial instinct.

 

Anyway, must dash. I've got some rabbits to skin.

 

 

A diesel range would be great in winter, but make the boat unbearably hot on those really hot summer days. But you could have a microwave and gas hob too?

Not true at all, Phil. As I said in a post above, it depends on what type of range you install.

Edited November 17, 2010 by Dominic M

[blackrose]

Hi. I'm not convinced that coal is significantly cheaper, if cheaper at all. It depends on what type of diesel heating you have. I suspect that if you rely on diesel central heating from an Eberspacher/Mikuni/Webasto it would work out quite expensive (I don't have first hand experience of using one, but I talk to enough people who do have them). But the diesel drip feed stoves are different beasts altogether. Oil prices may well continue to rise - they have gone up significantly in the last 3 months, but, as I said earlier, coal will increase in price with it, as much of the cost of coal is the transportation, which relies on oil for the ship, lorry and even canal boat that transports it. People who have woodburners in their homes will tell you that unless you have your own woodland, wood as a fuel is a very expensive luxury nowadays.

 

There's plenty of free wood around.

 

The drip-fed diesel stoves are the only ones to have, but I know a few owners and they're undoubtedly more expensive to run. Coal will increase in price for sure, but since transportation is only a proportion of its total cost, it is unlikely to increase in price in line with diesel.

 

Don't get me wrong, solid/multi fuel stoves are great. But they do create a lot of dust, you have to store the fuel somewhere, and however good you are at keeping it going, sooner or later you will have to go through the process of making paper balls, finding bits of kindling and then sitting there with your teeth chattering waiting for it to catch alight properly. Many people like that whole process - I think it appeals to some deep rooted primordial instinct.

 

Likewise, at some point your Aga WILL malfunction to the point at which you can't easily fix it yourself. Let's just hope it doesn't happen in winter.

Edited November 17, 2010 by blackrose

[Dominic M]

There's plenty of free wood around.

 

The drip-fed diesel stoves are the only ones to have, but I know a few owners and they're undoubtedly more expensive to run. Coal will increase in price for sure, but since transportation is only a proportion of its total cost, it is unlikely to increase in price as much as diesel.

 

That's a speculative guess. Maybe coal won't rise as much as oil, maybe it will. Maybe it will rise at a higher rate.

 

Likewise, at some point your Aga WILL malfunction to the point at which you can't easily fix it yourself. Let's just hope it doesn't happen in winter.

I'll be lighting the Epping range in the boatman's cabin and waiting for the service engineer.

[blackrose]

That's a speculative guess.

A educated guess based (in part) on your your own repeated conjecture.

 

I'll be lighting the Epping range in the boatman's cabin and waiting for the service engineer.

Quite.

Edited November 17, 2010 by blackrose

[Dominic M]

A educated guess based (in part) on your your own repeated conjecture.

Almost touche, but the word "guess" probably tells the story

 

BTW whilst I'm waiting for the service engineer, how long will you have to wait for the replacement glass or burnt through grate, or cracked firebrick to arrive?

[jenlyn]

Almost touche, but the word "guess" probably tells the story

 

BTW whilst I'm waiting for the service engineer, how long will you have to wait for the replacement glass or burnt through grate, or cracked firebrick to arrive?

 

Chandlery near me has glass and grates in stock no matter how much you wish to argue for deisel, it will never be as cheap as running a fire and gas. I know this, i have a webasto for heating and hot water, running it 24/7 equates to £18 a day, Bag of coal £9 for two days (i have a big fire). Gas for cooking, £21 a bottle (13kg), lasts 8 weeks.

[Dominic M]

I'm not arguing for one fuel over another. I'm just recording my experiences in response to the OP. I can't comment on a Webasto as I've never had a a boat of my own with one fitted, or an Eberspacher or Mikuni. There is absolutely no way my diesel range, which cooks, supplies the heating and HW, costs £18 per day. About £25 per week since Oct 10th, when I last topped up. It is off during the day and when I sleep. It is on a timer. Unlike a solid fuel stove it does not have to be relit. It comes on at the flick of a switch. If it goes wrong, which it hasn't, then a service engineer is available within 24 hours, as it is a popular domestic appliance used widely in houses.

Edited November 17, 2010 by Dominic M

[Pretty Funked Up]

There is absolutely no way my diesel range, which cooks, supplies the heating and HW, costs £18 per day. About £25 per week since Oct 10th,

 

£25 per week!! OMG big oooouchhhh from my pocket where i keep my wallet

[Dominic M]

£25 per week!! OMG big oooouchhhh from my pocket where i keep my wallet

What? For all your cooking, heating and hot water. For two people? It will cost you at least that in just coal to to run a room stove, with your cooking and hot water on top.

[ymu]

What? For all your cooking, heating and hot water. For two people? It will cost you at least that in just coal to to run a room stove, with your cooking and hot water on top.

Hardly! A couple of bags of coal a week @ £9 each, for stove and backboiler. Gas for cooking is a couple of quid at most.

[blackrose]

Almost touche, but the word "guess" probably tells the story

My point was that you were guessing as well when you said that the price of coal would rise in line with diesel. You don't know that for sure. Thus we were both making educated guesses, just that my guess was better educated than yours because I factored in that transportation was only a proportion of the final cost of coal.

 

BTW whilst I'm waiting for the service engineer, how long will you have to wait for the replacement glass or burnt through grate, or cracked firebrick to arrive?

I can get them all those parts from my chandlers very easily and I replace them all myself. My firebricks have been cracked for about 4 years and that doesn't stop the stove being used as long as the parts are assembled in the correct place. I'm not bothering to buy new ones. Similarly I have used my stove with cracked glass for several weeks before replacing it.

Edited November 18, 2010 by blackrose

[Pretty Funked Up]

What? For all your cooking, heating and hot water. For two people? It will cost you at least that in just coal to to run a room stove, with your cooking and hot water on top.

 

edited out costs because if a marina saw it or a tax man prices will go up buts its no where near £25/week

Edited November 18, 2010 by Pretty Funked Up