Overtaking

[magpie patrick]

Then we have another challenge on our hands. The weekend of Faries birthday party should suffice. I challenge you Graham (or anyone else who would like to try) to navigate NC at a speed below 3mph whilst maintaining safe steerage and control of the vessel. We may need to borrow a slower boat to simulate the approaching a slower boat scenario.

 

As i have pointed out before Graham, reverse gear is often the only way of losing speed and maintaining control of the vessel. Have you driven an outboard/outdrive propelled boat before?

 

Right, if the Purple Faeries birthday bash is a chance to have a go on Cal...

[Matthew Dowson]

Seems no-one has posted this info:

 

# ONE SHORT BLAST - This means that you "intend to leave you on my port side" if you are meeting or crossing another vessel. In other words, when you pass the other boat, the left side of your boat will be next to the other boat. If you are behind another boat and about to pass it, one short blast means that you "intend to pass on your starboard side".

# TWO SHORT BLASTS -This means that you "intend to leave you on my starboard side in a meeting or crossing situation." In other words, when you pass the other boat, the right side of your boat will be next to the other boat. If you are behind another boat and about to pass it, two short blasts means that you "Intend to overtake on your port side."

 

But of course no-one would know what you were trying to say. I have passed on rivers or if invited to pass on wide canals, but if its a mega-slow driver I am OK to chill generally. Up here on the L&LC its pretty quiet so we don't get this sort of problem much. I did once trail a L&LC Short Boat on tickover as it sucked the bottom all the way to Leeds from Apperley Bridge once a few years ago.

[Tiny]

In near 40 years only two boats have responded to my sound signals - a rower on the Thaes and the trip boat in cassio park. On the other hand a lot (of idiots) have moaned when I give a long burst approaching a blind bridge with idiot moored near that I am making too much noise.

[Naughty Cal]

Right, if the Purple Faeries birthday bash is a chance to have a go on Cal...

 

You are more than welcome to haev a go, although speed limits will have to be adhered to of course (which is a shame because the boring straight isnt far away )

[canaldrifter]

Fulbourne is an ex working boat, although we don't often tow a butty. As a deep-draughted boat we are sometimes slower than other boats, and so if someone comes up behind us I always wave them through when we get to a suitable stretch. Whilst I don't like just sitting behind a slowcoach in front, I also don't like someone sitting on my tail, or equally a boat sitting 2-3 lengths back which will neither drop back nor make clear its wish to pass.

 

David

 

It was a long time ago, Dave, and it wasn't you.

 

Tone

[JohnO]

SNIP... I thanked them and sped up to overtake.

Now, the comparative speeds of overtaker and overtakee can be little different. I have a 2.8 litre engine and was giving it some welly, but it still seemed to take ages to get past each boat. The reason was, I believe, that the well-meaning people had not throttled back to tickover; as they had waved me through, it would have been discourteous for me to tell them to slow right down as I overtook.

So if you are being overtaken, please slow down to tickover - the quicker the manoeuvre is completed, the safer it is for the people on both boats.

Athy have you been ever been overtaken. If you slow down to tickover and they speed up to overtake, chances are you will be across the cut. The effect is not much different to passing a moored boat. My worst experience of this was towing, as I watched the lines come away from the studs and the butty followed the other boat!

"giving it some welly, but it still seemed to take ages to get past each boat"

sounds like a lack of water.

[Chertsey]

If they have to slow down further to let you pass, then surely you didn't need to pass in the first place. I don't mind someone passing me if they're going faster, and I will pull over if I can to give them the space to do so. But I'm blowed if I'm going to let someone past who is going at practically the same speed.

[Ange]

So sorry, thought the thread was general. Should it have been better titled "overtaking on the Lancaster canal"?

 

<sigh>

 

If you were not in a hurry, why didn't you moor up for half an hour and make yourselves a nice cup of tea, instead of getting in a lather about it?

 

My sigh was in response to this:-

 

"If I was in a hurry I would not have bought a boat I would have bought a Ferrari" is my attitude about boating.

 

which you posted shortly after I posted this:-

 

We have all the time in the world to get from A to B and are never in a hurry but it made it hard work for Dave to maintain a polite distance, which is a different issue altogether.

 

The comment about locks on the Lancy was a footnote.

 

As the OP makes clear we aborted our plans for the day and moored up as soon as we could - unfortunately on the Lancy we can't just moor up anywhere - it's a very shallow canal even in official mooring spots, so we had to follow the boat for quite some time.

[Athy]

Chertsey, no I did not need to overtake but I was invited to, so I did.

Johno, yes, I have been overtaken - perhaps the fact that my boat is fairly heavy kept her from being pulled across. But your point about "lack of water" is well made: this was on the Ashby in August and from the marks on the piling it appeared that the water level was lower than usual.

[journeyperson]

Soon after entering Grub Street Cutting heading South last month I came upon a boat which at first I thought was trying to moor, being close in to the bank. But the steerer was putting his partner ashore who then walked along the towpath on a photography expedition whilst the boat proceeded slowly at her pace.

 

I was feeling a bit peeved but was prepared to follow because that section of canal is narrow and shallow. But the steerer motioned me to pass (on the wrong side for some reason) and he slowed right down as I passed and was apologetic about the slow progress.

 

I struggled to pass, stirring up the bottom and once ahead of him I found that I couldn't get back up to my previous speed of 2 - 3 mph, I think because of the soup around my prop. Now I was holding him up and the photographer even overtook me and then came back to tell me that there was a boat coming the other way at the bridge I was approaching. I was wishing I'd declined the invitation to pass. Once out of the cutting and into deeper, wider water I was able to clear the prop with a blast of reverse and continue to Norbury at a reasonable speed.

[carpetbloke]

I will agree that 3mph is probably about the optimum speed for steering for my yoghurt pot too.

With no wind slower is possible but why make life difficult.

Just goes to prove some NB owners don`t realise the difficulty caused to us by going too slowly.

[sociable_hermit]

I'd say it's best to throttle back a little while another boat is overtaking, just because the two boats will be side by side for less time, so less risk of either boat getting stuck (or prop fouled) in a shallow section or still being two abreast when a boat appears coming the other way. Even with lots of room it can take a long time to overtake. However I wouldn't slow down so much that I lost control of my boat - that doesn't help anyone.

 

We've been quite unlucky with overtaking moves. We followed a very slow boat on the Leicester Arm 3 years ago which was all over the place in bridge holes and seemed to be labouring and producing lots of wash all of the time. Eventually he moved over to the left on a straight as if stopping to moor up. Jolly good. But when we started to pass he throttled back up and wouldn't let us get any further past him. We eventually reached the next corner, fortunately a wide one, with my boat 3/4 of the way past his, at which point he attempted to ram into the side of us. He protested that being two abreast was dangerous if someone came the other way and that it was all our fault. Yes, it was dangerous, but only because his pride and quite frankly bizarre boat-handling had made it so. As I pointed out at the time, his was the boat on the wrong side of the cut, so who was in the wrong?

 

We've also been 'stern-gated' by a chap who was intent on getting past on a narrow curvy stretch, rather than waiting for a suitable passing place. A lady friend of mine was on the tiller and I think he was trying to intimidate her. She wisely pulled over on a straight section and he then charged past so quickly that we were bounced into the bank and then ran aground. He made some pithy comment about "women drivers". However the next locks were a pair of single locks and I ended up in the middle 'island' with his wife asking me to shut their other gate so she could get back across. "Not sure whether I should" I said, and told her what had been said. I suspect his dinner went to the dog and games nights were cancelled for quite some time...

[davel]

Wow five pages, my topics usually die a death very quickly after only a couple of replies if any!

 

Thank you everyone who has contributed.

 

I started the topic to find out if there was anything I should have done to get the boat in front to let us by being as we are still fairly new to this narrowboating lark.

 

So in future I'll catch right up to them and Ange will ask if we can overtake them (at an appropriate place) and hope she doesn't get a mouthful of abuse!

 

But it does seem that when in the situation of being a slower boat in front of a faster boat a lot of people on here (including ourselves) would wave them past at the first opportunity without being asked.

 

I have in the past been in situation were I have been slightly faster than the boat in front and have kept well back because the difference in speed was too small to bother with overtaking.

 

As we went through Galgate this morning we passed the boat in question which had turned round and was filling up with water. The photographer was still taking photos and took a couple of us coming through the bridgehole. As we passed we exchanged greetings and commented on the weather (as is the British way). We're fairly sure now that he was just a keen photographer and we were getting slightly paranoid and that if we had asked to overtake he would have let us.

[JohnO]

Johno, yes, I have been overtaken - perhaps the fact that my boat is fairly heavy kept her from being pulled across. But your point about "lack of water" is well made: this was on the Ashby in August and from the marks on the piling it appeared that the water level was lower than usual.

Good point the butty was empty. I think that's just the way the Ashby is, seeing as it is part of a 38 mile pound.

HACK...

I was feeling a bit peeved but was prepared to follow because that section of canal is narrow and shallow. But the steerer motioned me to pass (on the wrong side for some reason)

SNIP...

If he had any idea what he was doing, I bet the wrong side was the offside and he stayed on the towpath side.

[Chertsey]

I don't see you you could wave through a boat that is two boat lengths behind you. Yes, the answer is to get closer, and I would also offset myself too where possible rather than following in a line directly behind,* If they still don't take the hint, then if you have someone to go to the front and call out, they're very unlikely to get abuse for it. Bear in mind though that the person steering the boat in front will be contending with engine noise and may not be able to hear clearly and communication of necessity may be brief and brusque.

 

*Since owning Chertsey I have never had occasion to overtake another boat, but I have waved a good few by. With Warrior it was always the other way round.

[journeyperson]

If he had any idea what he was doing, I bet the wrong side was the offside and he stayed on the towpath side.

 

 

The towpath was on the right and he moved to the off-side for me to pass. I think he had gone aground whilst dropping the crew off and was only just getting free when I first saw him, so he decided to keep clear of that side.

[JohnO]

The towpath was on the right and he moved to the off-side for me to pass. I think he had gone aground whilst dropping the crew off and was only just getting free when I first saw him, so he decided to keep clear of that side.

I have had a few boats wave me by and watched them end up in difficulty on the offside, so I'm happy to wave you by but unless in good circumstances I am staying on the towpath side. Hmmm...thinking about it, depends on your knowledge of the stretch because some area's I would not touch the towpath side with a barge pole.

[WJM]

"I started the topic to find out if there was anything I should have done "

 

 

 

I use a simple approach. If I catch up on a slower boat at bends or bridges then I sit about a boat length off their stern. Then as soon as a straight suitable for overtaking comes into view I move right up onto their stern. It is very obvious what my intentions are then. Only the most utterly ignorant boater will ignore you then - though I have encountered a few!

 

You need to start the overtaking manoeuvre from directly behind anyway so that you push out over their stern wave and then the hole behind their bow wave will draw you back parallel. If you start anywhere else, the bow wave just pulls you in uncontrollably and you will collide.

[NB Alnwick]

"I started the topic to find out if there was anything I should have done "

 

 

 

I use a simple approach. If I catch up on a slower boat at bends or bridges then I sit about a boat length off their stern. Then as soon as a straight suitable for overtaking comes into view I move right up onto their stern. It is very obvious what my intentions are then. Only the most utterly ignorant boater will ignore you then - though I have encountered a few!

 

You need to start the overtaking manoeuvre from directly behind anyway so that you push out over their stern wave and then the hole behind their bow wave will draw you back parallel. If you start anywhere else, the bow wave just pulls you in uncontrollably and you will collide.

 

Surely, if a boat is making the waves that you mention, with sufficient force to draw you into them when trying to pass, they must already be travelling quite fast - so why is there any need to overtake?

[Naughty Cal]

Surely, if a boat is making the waves that you mention, with sufficient force to draw you into them when trying to pass, they must already be travelling quite fast - so why is there any need to overtake?

 

Because you are going faster then they are?

[canaldrifter]

There is also the point that many steerers rarely, if ever, look behind them.

 

Tone

[WJM]

Thank you Phylis for stating the blindingly obvious! I cant think of any better reason to overtake!

 

And by bringing your bow up level with their stern even the biggest a**ehole steerer cannot claim to be unaware of you. But as already mentioned, if they persist in ignoring you then a good hard bump will get their attention!

[n.b.Goldie]

There is also the point that many steerers rarely, if ever, look behind them.

 

Tone

 

 

This is very true which is why a 'hooter' or a SWMBO is an essential bit of ship's equipment.

 

Ditchdabbler

[David Mack]

I will agree that 3mph is probably about the optimum speed for steering for my yoghurt pot too.

With no wind slower is possible but why make life difficult.

Just goes to prove some NB owners don`t realise the difficulty caused to us by going too slowly.

40 years ago my father had an outboard-powered 20 ft 'yoghurt pot'. After being blown around in circles in the rather exposed pounds between the locks at Knowle on one trip, he fitted a pair of wooden bilge keels, which made all the difference to the boat's handling. I suspect a few others might benefit similarly.

 

David

Edited October 7, 2010 by David Mack

[NB Alnwick]

Thank you Phylis for stating the blindingly obvious! I cant think of any better reason to overtake!

 

And by bringing your bow up level with their stern even the biggest a**ehole steerer cannot claim to be unaware of you. But as already mentioned, if they persist in ignoring you then a good hard bump will get their attention!

 

If a boat is making waves it is already travelling at a speed that is damaging the canal infrastructure - another boat travelling faster and trying to overtake will only compound the issue. In these uncertain times we all need to do whatever we can to preserve our waterways because there will be precious little funding available for carrying out expensive bank repairs.

 

As for bumping into boats in front - well that is nothing more than another example of ignorant and oafish behaviour. I feel it is a great pity that some canal users feel unable to conduct themselves in a civilised and polite manner. Practising good manners, will usually produce a much more productive and satisfying result for all concerned.