Cratch restoration

[Evo]

Had great day yesterday...I feel so much happier now the boat is back. Anyroad I disappeared upto the mooring to do some work on the boat after her 3 weeks out. Everything was fine general maintenance and clean up wise, so I started a job I definately need to do before winter. The Front cratch board. Trouble is I wandered off down the mooring to have a chat with a new buddy and of course the sun was out and we chatted away guzzling bottles of beer watching the boats go by for a couple of hours. Fatal.

Eventually I'm back on the job. A brief explanation of the problem - front frame work is powder coated angle iron. Ply wood has then been inlaid, 2 triangles at the sides and a tallish rectangle up the middle. Phil Speight came and did some Art work in the boat about 10 years ago and on the vertical panel he painted a couple of trees to represent what the boat had been fitted out with, Oak and Ash. The otherside (outside) was primed in some silver paint and was going to have the Diamonds painted on by ourselves. We never did it. So whats happened is the Ply wood has got 'weathered' and the top laminate is peeling off. Sunday I dismantled the cratch entirely and shoved all the bits in my van and took it all home. I need to rescue the trees, does anyone have any ideas on how I might repair and stabilise one side of water damaged Plywood.

I also want to do something to the paintings to protect them whats the best stuff for that....a laquor maybe..???

Edited August 23, 2010 by Evo

[Ray]

Roughly what size is the main piece that you want to rescue? Is it narrow enough to pass through a thicknesser so that you can remove the duff side> Failing that, could you carefully peel away a couple of layers on the duff side with a chisel or similar and then level it off with a belt sander?

 

If you can rescue it I'd be inclined to apply some protection e.g. varnish on the back (duff) side and then possibly put a face frame around the whole piece so that you can refit it to a replacement vertical panel.

[Evo]

Good Idea.. it would pass through a big thicknesser. Its only 250mm wide.

Frame it, Yes, another good idea, I could thicknes it right down...its currently 18mm ply in the middle with 9mm for the triangles. I could then use a new 18mm piece with a routed out pocket for the Trees. The Trees would then be removeable should the outside go again. Well I've got clean up the existing anyway so a thicknesser has to be the way to go with that....cheers Ray

[stuart]

Could you get a piece of glass or perspex on the front to cover it up afterwards?

[Ray]

The plywood won't do your thicknesser blades any good so try and remove as much of the "back" as you can by other means.

[owen]

The plywood won't do your thicknesser blades any good so try and remove as much of the "back" as you can by other means.

hi i wouldnt put ply through thicknesser as the way ply is made the thicknesser will pick up any softer or damper wood and tear the face also if the thickneser has any imperfection on running face it will scratch the painting i would make a basic frame fastening it to any old board make the frame the thickness you wish to take the ply down to make a skid with two pieces of 2x1 use a flat cutter in router fasten router to 2x1 and slide the skid and router round the frame until all ply is removed then seal the ply exposed back with waterproof pva glue you could then if required buy some veneer and stick this to the bare ply keep plenty of wheight on until dry then paint or varnish which ever you chose .if you dont own router then you can still use skid with belt sander with coarse grit sand paper it takes a little longer but does just the same job

[Evo]

Thats a better Idea Owen - Sorry Ray - I was forgetting the paintings. I also have a big router.

 

STuart - I thought about that myself but its out in the cratch and I'm not sure how much condensation I would get underneath the glass or perspex. I would rather put a sort of clear glaze direct onto it to help seal the painting side of the ply. This should of all been done years ago, but we'd had enough of building the boat and wanted to go playing. They have survived very well considering.

 

The whole lots in the airing cupboard at home at the moment - drying out.

[smileypete]

Thats a better Idea Owen - Sorry Ray - I was forgetting the paintings. I also have a big router.

 

STuart - I thought about that myself but its out in the cratch and I'm not sure how much condensation I would get underneath the glass or perspex. I would rather put a sort of clear glaze direct onto it to help seal the painting side of the ply. This should of all been done years ago, but we'd had enough of building the boat and wanted to go playing. They have survived very well considering.

 

The whole lots in the airing cupboard at home at the moment - drying out.

Might be best to get Phil's advice on what to use over the decorated inside.

 

For the outside I'd use a 'microporous' (ie breathable) wood stain like Sikkens Cetol HLS or Sadolin Ultra, and give the top cratchboard some extra coats.

 

cheers,

Pete.

[Chertsey]

I've just sealed Chertsey's rear hatch paintings with Craftmaster varnish. I'd certainly use that in preference to any other varnish or lacquer. Once the whole thing is dry I'd be inclined to do that first, to give the paintings some protection while you're dealing with the back.

 

ed. to add link to blog post on the topic

Edited August 24, 2010 by Chertsey

[Evo]

Thanks for replies guys...any tips are welcome.

 

The pics below show what I am trying to preserve...well worth it I think. The colours are richer in real life.

 

 

Water Damage at the bottom - I'll probably cut the bottom off and add a new bit.

 

The outside face - now cleaned up with a large sharp flat chisel in the end. The whole outer skin removed. Has left a sort of gluey bity feel.

[WotEver]

The outside face - now cleaned up with a large sharp flat chisel in the end. The whole outer skin removed. Has left a sort of gluey bity feel.

If it's now bone dry I'd coat that outside face with a couple of coats of well-thinned PVA before re-veneering.

 

Tony

[Evo]

I was just going to rough sand then prime it, flat back, prime it again, flat, then base coat for the Diamond pattern. I didn't think it would be necessary to re-veneer it as its having alot of paint on ?

[WotEver]

I was just going to rough sand then prime it, flat back, prime it again, flat, then base coat for the Diamond pattern. I didn't think it would be necessary to re-veneer it as its having alot of paint on ?

That'd be fine too

 

Tony

[owen]

I was just going to rough sand then prime it, flat back, prime it again, flat, then base coat for the Diamond pattern. I didn't think it would be necessary to re-veneer it as its having alot of paint on ?

it could do with veneering really to stop it cupping the old rule of veneer is always do same on both sides which means in your case have the grain of both veneers running same direction if it does then your ok to put the paint on seems a bit picky maybe but with such a lovely piece of painting then i suggest belt and braces are in order make sure pva is waterproof version and plenty of wheight on top with some news paper on top of veneer slightly dampened

[Evo]

Veneering is something I've not done before so would be interesting to have a pop at it.

If I got a sheet of Oak veneer would I be creating what is known as 'Oak faced ply' - is that what oak faced ply is.

Edited August 26, 2010 by Evo

[WotEver]

If I got a sheet of Oak veneer would I be creating what is known as 'Oak faced ply' - is that what oak faced ply is.

Yes

[Evo]

This could be good then because I have a mountain of 8x4 18mm ply (lining from a stable block). Its all in as new condition and I have a few things I want to make for the boat like a new cratch table. Also finish off the built in furniture in the lounge area. Is it feasable to shape all the necessary parts - like the table - in ordinary ply and then veneer the finished shape at the end.

 

You get what I mean, I want to build it all in ordinary ply and then veneeer and edge trim it at the end.

[WotEver]

I want to build it all in ordinary ply and then veneeer and edge trim it at the end.

Absolutely a good plan. Veneering a structurally completed project is a very common practice among fine furniture makers, even if it's to veneer say solid oak with walnut.

 

The one aspect of veneering that shows up a poor job against a good one is the meeting of the edges. Shoot all straight edges with a finely set very sharp plane. Have a knife with the grind on only one side for any edges that have to be cut and can't be shot, so as to leave a sharp arris.

 

Buy yourself some glue film to stick the veneer down with - it's much easier than Cascamite or anything else you'll find, because it's guaranteed to be flat and smooth. One supplier- others may be cheaper.

 

Tony

 

Oh, and has already been said - you should ideally veneer both sides to 'stabilise' the ply.

[Evo]

Hey Walnut, I love walnut. You can get some right fancy veneers I believe. Whirr whirrr.

 

Whilst you cabinet makers are on form I also want to inlay a full length mirror in one of my bog doors. The doors are oak faced blockboard. Is this a good Idea or would I be better off surface mounting it. Its just I wanted to keep it flush to prevent coats and things catching it, as the mirror would face out into the corridor.

[WotEver]

Whilst you cabinet makers are on form I also want to inlay a full length mirror in one of my bog doors. The doors are oak faced blockboard. Is this a good Idea or would I be better off surface mounting it. Its just I wanted to keep it flush to prevent coats and things catching it, as the mirror would face out into the corridor.

Hey, I'm no cabinet-maker, just a reasonably competent DIYer. If you fancy making a quality job out of it then I'd say recess the mirror and surround the recess with a hockey-stick moulding which you could dye a darker colour for contrast (like Walnut!). To create the recess accurately, make a skid for the router, fit a large guide bush, and arrange battens around the outer edge of the skid support to guide the bush. If that doesn't make sense I'll try to describe it more fully.

 

Tony

[Evo]

Thanks Tony

Same here as regards DIYer. I understand about the frames, skids and bush/bearing for routing the recess, I've done similar kinds of pockets etc before. I was wondering what you thought about removing a great chunk of the facing material and digging into the blockboard heart of the door in terms of stability/flatness of the door.

[owen]

Thanks Tony

Same here as regards DIYer. I understand about the frames, skids and bush/bearing for routing the recess, I've done similar kinds of pockets etc before. I was wondering what you thought about removing a great chunk of the facing material and digging into the blockboard heart of the door in terms of stability/flatness of the door.

you will be fine to do that into blockboard as its construction lends itself to this type of application better than ply if you have a router you could buy yourself a edging bit with a guide bearing for doing your veneer work they do cheap ones in a small size and this are perfectly good enough if you just turn the speed on router down and allow it to cut rather than pushing it through the veneer you will find that dampening the oak before applying it will help let it stand for an hour before you offer it up to your ply

[koukouvagia]

I'm surprised that on one has suggested using fibreglass to sheath the damaged cratch. I had the same problem was slides. No matter what method I used, including several of the ones in previous posts, the only way I've managed to preserve the wood is to use fibre glass mat and resin.

 

[Evo]

KouKou..I'm going to be blunt here, I hope you dont mind. Its only my opinion remember. I used to mend cars on the side when I was a kid, weld new sills and wings on old Marinas and Escorts to fund my bike racing. Some of the most horrific rot I ever saw was always the result of the owner attempting to cover up a rusty bit with some "plastic padding" (glass fibre). I hate Glass fibre and would rather make a whole new lid and go to art school to learn to paint trees than cover it in GRP. Dont get me wrong as a product in its own right its fantastic stuff, but used to hide diorders in other materails its a disaster.

 

So as you can guess...I dont think much of your lid. Thats just me though (1 person).Anyway if you have the skill to do a good job with glass fibre you could of made a whole new lid.

Edited August 26, 2010 by Evo

[Evo]

I'm onto painting now. The pattern below is what I will be attempting to paint onto the front face of the board. The board has been sanded, sealed, undercoated, and had 2 coats of cream gloss.

 

Now I need to mark it out and do the pattern, How have others done this..?

My plan is to mask up and apply all marroon, then same again for green. The Cream is allready there. When I say mask I have proper 6mm lining tape that I normally use, then I masking tape to that. When all done I was then going to clear Yatch varnish over the whole lot - including the trees the other side.