lining out info

[panji]

Am just about to start lining out my new shell , am looking for any info regarding what type of batterns ie, treated or not treated. size of battern, different types of fixing and methods of fixing. and also what thickness might be considered for the hull, cabin and roof. i intend to use t&g softwood wood on the hull sides , panels on cabin sides and t&g on the roof .is it neccessary or advised to ply behind the t&g panels only or all panels if so what would be a good thickness of ply in the different areas. any general info regarding lining out would be very helpful. many thanks

Edited January 24, 2010 by panji

[casper ghost]

Hello. I use roofing lathes. I cut small steel lugs which I bolt to these lathes and then weld the lugs to the side. Not sure what others do.

[sueb]

Where are you building your boat? We did ours at a boatyard and copied the paid workers which was very helpful.

Sue

[panji]

Thanks for you replies..we are building the boat on our mooring & am interested in different ideas regarding lining out. Ta....

[koukouvagia]

Am just about to start lining out my new shell , am looking for any info regarding what type of batterns ie, treated or not treated. size of battern, different types of fixing and methods of fixing. and also what thickness might be considered for the hull, cabin and roof. i intend to use t&g softwood wood on the hull sides , panels on cabin sides and t&g on the roof .is it neccessary or advised to ply behind the t&g panels only or all panels if so what would be a good thickness of ply in the different areas. any general info regarding lining out would be very helpful. many thanks

 

I used 2”x1” softwood battens attached to the hull by welded lugs. I was careful to space the battens so that the rockwool I used for insulation was a tight fit between the battens and held in place by friction. I didn't treat the wood in any way because a boat I'd done like this ten years before showed absolutely no sign of condensation or moisture.

The wiring and plumbing has to be planned at this stage so that the channels can run through holes in the battens.

There are two vital things to make this sort of insulation work: no gaps in the rockwall and a vapour barrier that covers every inch of the hull and roof. I stapled the building plastic onto the battens.

Also I would advise using the thicker floorboard type of T&G, not the thinner stuff sold as cladding. In this way you won't need backing ply as you suggest.

Above the gunwales I used 12mm MDF. Don't listen to all the Jeremiahs who warn against using this. It's perfect providing the underlying insulation is good. All the vertical and horizontal battens above the gunwales are at 3' intervals so that there's plenty of support for the MDF panels.

 

Edited January 24, 2010 by koukouvagia

[panji]

I used 2”x1” softwood battens attached to the hull by welded lugs. I was careful to space the battens so that the rockwool I used for insulation was a tight fit between the battens and held in place by friction. I didn't treat the wood in any way because a boat I'd done like this ten years before showed absolutely no sign of condensation or moisture.

The wiring and plumbing has to be planned at this stage so that the channels can run through holes in the battens.

There are two vital things to make this sort of insulation work: no gaps in the rockwall and a vapour barrier that covers every inch of the hull and roof. I stapled the building plastic onto the battens.

Also I would advise using the thicker floorboard type of T&G, not the thinner stuff sold as cladding. In this way you won't need backing ply as you suggest.

Above the gunwales I used 12mm MDF. Don't listen to all the Jeremiahs who warn against using this. It's perfect providing the underlying insulation is good. All the vertical and horizontal battens above the gunwales are at 3' intervals so that there's plenty of support for the MDF panels.

 

thanks very much for the info was most helpful, just trying to get as many different opinions on varies methods of lining and battening out as possible. had planned to use 2x1 softwood battens fixed to the steel cross members using tex screws with spray foam insulation. mdf seems a good material for cabin sides as i will be having a painted finish on it, my local builders merchants sells it in a moisture resistent form although it is more expensive. anyway thanks for the info and pictures , any more views on the above topic would be welcome.

[steelaway]

Am just about to start lining out my new shell , am looking for any info regarding what type of batterns ie, treated or not treated. size of battern, different types of fixing and methods of fixing. and also what thickness might be considered for the hull, cabin and roof. i intend to use t&g softwood wood on the hull sides , panels on cabin sides and t&g on the roof .is it neccessary or advised to ply behind the t&g panels only or all panels if so what would be a good thickness of ply in the different areas. any general info regarding lining out would be very helpful. many thanks

 

Hi

 

I used 1"x1" tanalised slate lath on the roof and above the gunwales. I used 2"x2" soft wood below.

Cut to size, the 2x2 can be hammered tightly into the steel angles. The same with the 1x1 but I used a good quality glue where nessesary.

Around the windows and loose uprights I used the corrugated strip nails to make surface joints at the corners.

Dont forget that in each corner you need to put in a bearer for both directions.

It was all firm before the spray foam but it still firms everything up again.

I feel too many people build a load bearing structure inside the load bearing structure.

Basicaly you are only providing some where to nail/screw the wall covering too.

If you are using thin ply then you would need more battens but when using 9mm- 13mm ply, its self supporting and extra batten steals space out of an already slim boat.

 

 

 

 

 

Alex

[RobinJ]

I used 1"x1" tanalised slate lath on the roof and above the gunwales. I used 2"x2" soft wood below.

Cut to size, the 2x2 can be hammered tightly into the steel angles. The same with the 1x1 but I used a good quality glue where nessesary.

Interesting question - how are the battens fastened to the metal?

On ours I have had to alter many of the battens when refitting, since orginally they had been secured by self tapping screws into the metal and over time these had snapped. When refitting I screwed through the metal into the wood and it made a tremendous difference tovibration too.

[bag 'o' bones]

Having fitted out a lined sailaway, if I were to start from scratch I would make sure that evey piece of lining I fitted could remeoved again without wreaking everything in the process.

 

Trouble is these days it customery to hide fixings so nail guns and glue seems to be the prefered method. Unfourtunatly it also the most destructive method at take apart time.

 

So, I would use a a low modulas silicone type of glue smilar to the stuff they stick car vapour barrier to car doors for example - you can remove it easily - and half decent posi screws rather than those poxy automatic screw driver jobbies that always seem to waste at the head and snap off.

 

For the decorative battening I would use semi dome head brass screws which have an air of quality when spaced out.

[steelaway]

Interesting question - how are the battens fastened to the metal?

On ours I have had to alter many of the battens when refitting, since orginally they had been secured by self tapping screws into the metal and over time these had snapped. When refitting I screwed through the metal into the wood and it made a tremendous difference tovibration too.

 

 

Hi

There are no fastenings to the metal, only by glue (Evode - Sticks like sh*t)

Each piece was cut and jammed into the steel bearers except for the length running down the bottom of the tumbleome(?) which is screwed through the 2" overhang. This was to give me a firm bottom run to jam the upright onto and ten corrugated fasteners at the joints.

I dont have any vibrations in my boat, maybe because of the engine type and mountings.

 

 

Alex

[steelaway]

Having fitted out a lined sailaway, if I were to start from scratch I would make sure that evey piece of lining I fitted could remeoved again without wreaking everything in the process.

 

Trouble is these days it customery to hide fixings so nail guns and glue seems to be the prefered method. Unfourtunatly it also the most destructive method at take apart time.

 

So, I would use a a low modulas silicone type of glue smilar to the stuff they stick car vapour barrier to car doors for example - you can remove it easily - and half decent posi screws rather than those poxy automatic screw driver jobbies that always seem to waste at the head and snap off.

 

For the decorative battening I would use semi dome head brass screws which have an air of quality when spaced out.

 

 

 

Hi

 

I understand your logic but I will be dead before this boat has to have a refit, either that or I will have sold it.

All services are easily exposed so I have no reason to believe I will ever have to remove any wall panels.

Sorry there is one piece of 240V artic blue cable running behind the wall panels and ceiling, left side to right side.

I will feel very unfortunate if that cable fails.

 

Alex

Edited January 25, 2010 by steelaway

[bag 'o' bones]

Hi

 

I understand your logic but I will be dead before this boat has to have a refit, either that or I will have sold it.

All services are easily exposed so I have no reason to believe I will ever have to remove any wall panels.

Sorry there is one piece of 240V artic blue cable running behind the wall panels and ceiling, left side to right side.

I will feel very unfortunate if that cabe fails.

 

Alex

 

Never say never!

 

Its probably more of an issue if your fitting out yourself. Even the best laid plans get revised somewhere along the way so making things removable without damage just makes life that little bit easier if something has to come apart.

 

Having said that whilst your boat was presumably a complete turn key when you bought it, what happens if say there is a leak that requires the boarding to be removed or the windows have to come out for a re-paint?

 

The reason whey I mention it is that is exactly what we have had to contend with in the first two years of owning a new fully lined sailaway.

 

There is not much you can do about accesability once a boat has been built but if your doing it youreself you might as well incorporate improved access as you go a long.

 

Inany case the only reason why most boat builders don't bother making things come apart is because nail guns and glue is the cheapest method of construction!

Edited January 25, 2010 by bag 'o' bones

[Rick-n-Jo]

If you have L shaped framing on the hull side, fixing the batten to the side rather that the inner face will increase cabin width. Drilling holes (3-4mm) through the steel frames and screwing through them into the wood is then fairly quick and easy. Have the batten projecting 5-10mm above the steel to prevent cold bridges to the linings. I covered the exposed face of the metal with closed cell foam - laminate floor underlay actually. Treated battening is available in various sizes from the likes of Travis Perkins. (I think their softwood is much better quality than some builders merchants, as well)

 

 

The hull lining in 12mm T&G

 

 

To be painted or stained, rather than varnished.

[nb Innisfree]

Having fitted out a lined sailaway, if I were to start from scratch I would make sure that evey piece of lining I fitted could remeoved again without wreaking everything in the process.

 

Trouble is these days it customery to hide fixings so nail guns and glue seems to be the prefered method. Unfourtunatly it also the most destructive method at take apart time.

 

So, I would use a a low modulas silicone type of glue smilar to the stuff they stick car vapour barrier to car doors for example - you can remove it easily - and half decent posi screws rather than those poxy automatic screw driver jobbies that always seem to waste at the head and snap off.

 

For the decorative battening I would use semi dome head brass screws which have an air of quality when spaced out.

 

When doing our boat I clamped ply lining between strips of ply fastened at roof, gunnel and floor which enables us to remove all our linings if needed, these strips incorporate ply channels for electric and plumbing. Also internal walls sit between floor ply to enable floor to be lifted separately in each room.

 

Edited to add:

Having removable panels does entail visible fastenings which is why normal fitouts don't have removable panels, makes for a posher finish for the customer!

Edited January 25, 2010 by nb Innisfree

[bag 'o' bones]

Edited to add:

Having removable panels does entail visible fastenings which is why normal fitouts don't have removable panels, makes for a posher finish for the customer!

 

Hmm debatable. I think it more of a quickness issue rather than being more 'posh'

 

Good quality brass semi dome head screws via a counter sunk insert ooze quality I don't care what anyone says! Problem is I think folk get them confused with brass surface cups with a cross head screw which looks a bit cheap to be honest.

[soldthehouse]

Hmm debatable. I think it more of a quickness issue rather than being more 'posh'

 

Good quality brass semi dome head screws via a counter sunk insert ooze quality I don't care what anyone says! Problem is I think folk get them confused with brass surface cups with a cross head screw which looks a bit cheap to be honest.

Used tens of thousands of those if its the solid brass ones with a knurled outer profile and when tapped in place are flush with the surface. We used them on wooden products that we manufactured that needed screwing to the wall like towel rails. I agree the pressed brass plated surface mounted ones look naff.

[Grace and Favour]

Used tens of thousands of those if its the solid brass ones with a knurled outer profile and when tapped in place are flush with the surface. We used them on wooden products that we manufactured that needed screwing to the wall like towel rails. I agree the pressed brass plated surface mounted ones look naff.

 

You could always deep countersink the screws, and then fill the countersink (after the panel's fitted) with a matching wooden plug, finish flush with panel/capping and polished - -

Looks wonderful!

 

 

(and you can always remove IF the need to alter / rewire / replumb etc.)

[soldthehouse]

You could always deep countersink the screws, and then fill the countersink (after the panel's fitted) with a matching wooden plug, finish flush with panel/capping and polished - -

Looks wonderful!

 

 

(and you can always remove IF the need to alter / rewire / replumb etc.)

Yes built a furniture business up using whats called a counterbore either 3/8 or 5/8 with parallel sided plugs, if you run the grain the same way as the main piece they are virtually invisible if dills and plug cutter are sharp.

[koukouvagia]

Yes built a furniture business up using whats called a counterbore either 3/8 or 5/8 with parallel sided plugs, if you run the grain the same way as the main piece they are virtually invisible if dills and plug cutter are sharp.

 

I agree - that's exactly what I've done. BTW it's much easier to cut lots of plugs if you've got a pillar drill.

[soldthehouse]

I agree - that's exactly what I've done. BTW it's much easier to cut lots of plugs if you've got a pillar drill.

In reality its the only way and you need to use them quickly or they alter in size by absorbing moisture...