heat sink

[number four]

does any one think it would be posible to use the balast as a heat sink

to keep cool in summer or insulated and warm in winter (night storage stile)

any one thought about it and idears on how to??

[Proper Job]

Bottom line is no. If it were feasible, people would be doing it (or maybe it is and they are?)

 

The only thing that I have heard of being done is drawing up cool air from under the floor boards in the summer.

 

How do you propose to 'heat' the ballast in the winter. If you did/could, the heat would be dissipated out through the bottom of the boat in to the water.

[Cosmic]

I've heard of people using the baseplate to act as a fridge, though I don't know how successful that is. It's unlikely to get temperatures down to the same levels as inside a real fridge, but it does save a lot of electricity if you find that it suits your needs.

 

If not, as Proper Job says, you can draw cool air from under the floor. If your fridge is in a cupboard, it will work more efficiently if you cool it by drawing air up using a small PC fan fitted to a piece of 40mm pipe.

[Naughty Cal]

Storing things below waterlevel does keep them cool. We have two storage bins (for want of a better word) that keep food very cool. Wouldnt want to try and heat them though.

[nb Innisfree]

I was told by a Swedish fellah that in Sweden they burn wood at a fast and and therefore efficient rate and heat water in a water jacket that, with the exception of the door, completely surrounds the SF stove and chimney. This water is connected to a large water tank which is sometimes positioned under a bed, this water then acts as a heating source for the remaining 24 hrs + a nice warm bed. Heating water at a rapid rate only req stove to burn for a couple of hours or so.

 

So being able to sink large amounts of heat sounds just the job for a nb stove which quite often is too hot and wasteful.

Edited October 16, 2009 by nb Innisfree

[number four]

ok some points to consider.

 

cooling using the water through the hull is pritty easy.

if you use a fan to suck cold air from under the floor then that air will need replacing with warmer air from above the floor.

 

if you were to insulate the hull below the floor and then balast

 

then throughout the day when the boat is warm the coold air could be drawn out and replaced with the warm in the process heating the balast then when the heat sink was warm turn of the fan and let the heat slowly rise up through the floor.

this would give a much more stable heat pattern.

 

its not been done befor as its never been a econocial propersition for a builder.

20 years ago i dout weather a solar pannel could be found on a NB

 

heat sinks are used in eco homes a lot so why not a boat as the sink is already there we only need to make use of it.

i have seen lots of people ask about under floor heating so this could be another way of looking at the problem.

[RLWP]

ok some points to consider.

 

cooling using the water through the hull is pritty easy.

if you use a fan to suck cold air from under the floor then that air will need replacing with warmer air from above the floor.

 

if you were to insulate the hull below the floor and then balast

 

then throughout the day when the boat is warm the coold air could be drawn out and replaced with the warm in the process heating the balast then when the heat sink was warm turn of the fan and let the heat slowly rise up through the floor.

this would give a much more stable heat pattern.

 

its not been done befor as its never been a econocial propersition for a builder.

20 years ago i dout weather a solar pannel could be found on a NB

 

heat sinks are used in eco homes a lot so why not a boat as the sink is already there we only need to make use of it.

i have seen lots of people ask about under floor heating so this could be another way of looking at the problem.

 

Trouble is, it isn't a very big heatsink and it's a poor shape too. A flat, wide, thin slab of concrete isn't a good way of storing heat so I can't see it staying warm for very long. Plus, there isn't very much concrete compared to what houses use.

 

Richard

[number four]

Trouble is, it isn't a very big heatsink and it's a poor shape too. A flat, wide, thin slab of concrete isn't a good way of storing heat so I can't see it staying warm for very long. Plus, there isn't very much concrete compared to what houses use.

 

Richard

 

well you are heating a much smaller volume of air

and not all boats are the same lots use paving slabs, bricks, scrap iron. all of which would make good heat sinks.

 

it also depends on your expecttations.

in a new build a little extra spray fome in construction and a pc fan or two for a stable over night temprature

think storage heaters in revers not much volume there for a hole house.

[RLWP]

well you are heating a much smaller volume of air

and not all boats are the same lots use paving slabs, bricks, scrap iron. all of which would make good heat sinks.

 

it also depends on your expecttations.

in a new build a little extra spray fome in construction and a pc fan or two for a stable over night temprature

think storage heaters in revers not much volume there for a hole house.

 

No, but storage heaters have a huge power input compared to their heat capacity, so you store your energy as a small quantity of material at a very high temperature. A house does it the other way around, a very large quantity of material but at a much lower temperature. On a boat you have a small quantity of material and only a comparatively low temperature, so you can't store much heat.

 

Over what time scale are you trying to work? You could probably heat the boat at night after a hot day, but that's not a common thing to want to do. But heating a boat in the winter from heat stored in the summer?

 

Richard

[number four]

No, but storage heaters have a huge power input compared to their heat capacity, so you store your energy as a small quantity of material at a very high temperature. A house does it the other way around, a very large quantity of material but at a much lower temperature. On a boat you have a small quantity of material and only a comparatively low temperature, so you can't store much heat.

 

Over what time scale are you trying to work? You could probably heat the boat at night after a hot day, but that's not a common thing to want to do. But heating a boat in the winter from heat stored in the summer?

 

Richard

 

im thinking it will be nice to take the chill of the boat at night in spring and autum and to even out the heat from a stove in the winter.

at all times it will give a heat sorce from the floor up stoping you getting cold feet.

 

i am not expecting miricals but as its there why not make use of it?

[PaddingtonBear]

I know that Brighton's education system is rubbish so you have an excuse for your spelling and punctuation or are you Spacecactus in disguise?

Edited October 17, 2009 by PaddingtonBear

[RLWP]

im thinking it will be nice to take the chill of the boat at night in spring and autum and to even out the heat from a stove in the winter.

at all times it will give a heat sorce from the floor up stoping you getting cold feet.

 

i am not expecting miricals but as its there why not make use of it?

 

OK. Well, give it a go and let us know how you get on. A bit of time doing some sums on thermal capacity and heat transfer rates may save you a load of effort.

 

But, I could be wrong, so do keep us informed.

 

Richard

[KevThePipe]

I've just completed the rather novel installation of underfloor heating in a Dutch barge replica called 'Jour De Fete', built by Will Trickett Boats...

 

Will came up with the idea and spent a lot of time with a concrete 'engineer' and it took a couple of tries to get that right....

 

.... the underfloor loops are heated by a Kubola diesel boiler and we're experimenting with timings/temp settings at the moment, but generally, the principle works.

 

I think you'd have trouble retro fitting any heat sink into the underfloor of a nb... though the idea of a solar heated volume of water used as a reverse calorifier is something to think about.... it's used in Scandinavia already with wood pellet burners and othe rheat sources though I forget the technical term for it now!

[number four]

I've just completed the rather novel installation of underfloor heating in a Dutch barge replica called 'Jour De Fete', built by Will Trickett Boats...

 

Will came up with the idea and spent a lot of time with a concrete 'engineer' and it took a couple of tries to get that right....

 

.... the underfloor loops are heated by a Kubola diesel boiler and we're experimenting with timings/temp settings at the moment, but generally, the principle works.

 

I think you'd have trouble retro fitting any heat sink into the underfloor of a nb... though the idea of a solar heated volume of water used as a reverse calorifier is something to think about.... it's used in Scandinavia already with wood pellet burners and othe rheat sources though I forget the technical term for it now!

 

could you plese give some more detail about how the sink is insulated from the hull any picturs?

[KevThePipe]

80mm of 'Kingspan' style insulation laid on an 18mm ply sub-floor as I recall... I wasn't involved in this end of the project!

 

for more info, contact Will Trickett via his website (Google 'Will Trickett Boats')

[ditchcrawler]

80mm of 'Kingspan' style insulation laid on an 18mm ply sub-floor as I recall... I wasn't involved in this end of the project!

 

for more info, contact Will Trickett via his website (Google 'Will Trickett Boats')

http://www.trickettboats.com/Welcome.html

[colin stone]

does any one think it would be posible to use the balast as a heat sink

to keep cool in summer or insulated and warm in winter (night storage stile)

any one thought about it and idears on how to??

 

You are really talking about a heat accumulator - a bit more here

There are stoves surrounded by brick/stone which retain and release the heat over a long period, but too big for a DB/NB.

 

The Will Trickett concrete floor is interesting, although getting down to the bilges is going to be more interesting!! Underfloor heating is a way to go, and another consideration is to use a ground source heat pump and take in the heat from the canal water. Requires 1kw to recover 3 - 4 kw of heat. Ideal for UFH as UFH temps are 40C instead of the normal 80C for CH.

[RLWP]

<snip>

and another consideration is to use a ground source heat pump and take in the heat from the canal water. Requires 1kw to recover 3 - 4 kw of heat. Ideal for UFH as UFH temps are 40C instead of the normal 80C for CH.

 

This is a really interesting idea. After all there is often a flow along a canal so you have an enormous volume of low energy water at a fairly constant temperature. In addition, the heat transfer from water to the heat pump should be easier to arrange than those enormous loops that people bury under lawns.

 

Richard