mooring permit

[denboy]

righto folks

Just had my new mooring permit application for my mooring private end of garden and bw have increased it by £125 from £500 to £625 .what right have they to do this?

[mayalld]

righto folks

Just had my new mooring permit application for my mooring private end of garden and bw have increased it by £125 from £500 to £625 .what right have they to do this?

 

EOG Permits are pegged to 50% of the price of the nearest unserviced BW mooring.

 

The base price of that mooring for existing moorers will have been modified taking into account the level of interest shown in the mooring when tendered for.

[denboy]

so the more that some pillock tenders the more i have to pay for nothing?

[Naughty Cal]

so the more that some pillock tenders the more i have to pay for nothing?

 

Pretty much. Lots of rich people where you live?

[bottle]

Maybe worth a phone call, to find out which mooring and the cost of that mooring they are using to fix your price.

[mayalld]

Maybe worth a phone call, to find out which mooring and the cost of that mooring they are using to fix your price.

 

And they do actually publish their reasoning for every price increase.

[denboy]

just found this

https://mooringtenders.waterscape.com/searc...d=722&type=

highest bid £700 so by my reckoning i owe them £350?

[bottle]

If that is the mooring they are using and the 50% 'rule' is correct then they may be using the 'guide price' but would still mean it should be £463.

 

Good luck.

[NB Alnwick]

righto folks

Just had my new mooring permit application for my mooring private end of garden and bw have increased it by £125 from £500 to £625 .what right have they to do this?

 

I think the real problem is that BW management are convinced that they are running a slick commercial business and they will, therefore, charge "what the market will stand" - sadly we are letting them get away with it.

 

An alternative approach would reason that the waterways belong to us all as a national asset and the charges made for direct use of our asset should be fair and reasonable in relation to the cost of providing same.

[denboy]

If that is the mooring they are using and the 50% 'rule' is correct then they may be using the 'guide price' but would still mean it should be £463.

 

Good luck.

 

my thoughts exactly should have gone down not up,

seriously thinking of telling them to go swivel like a lot of the craft around these parts

[Proper Job]

I wouldn't give them anything above the average rate of inflation since the last rise.

 

Ask them to justify as to why you should pay anymore. As they are a virtual monopoly, they should be held accountable to reasonable increases. Not making up the rules based on an unfair auction system where there is always someone prepared to pay well above a reasonable rate because BW keep moorings in short supply/drip feed them on to the market.

 

Sorry..... off the soap box now

[Teakbank12]

just found this

https://mooringtenders.waterscape.com/searc...d=722&type=

highest bid £700 so by my reckoning i owe them £350?

 

SSSHHHHHHHH

 

Sounds about as unfair as the council tax which is controlled by those loonies in London.

 

One consolation is that at least you have a mooring

[dor]

I think the real problem is that BW management are convinced that they are running a slick commercial business and they will, therefore, charge "what the market will stand" - sadly we are letting them get away with it.

 

Following a prompt from my MP, I received a letter from (well, no, signed by) Mr Evans. An indication of the stupidity and contempt so deeply embedded in the BW directors is the line where he says that "just over 50% of the tendered moorings went for over the guide price". His, or at least the spin merchant that writes his letters for him, words. Now even the most rudimentary knowledge of maths would enable you to understand that if just over 50% went for over the guide price, then JUST UNDER 50% went for BELOW the guide price.

 

In other words, despite all the guff BW put out about "market forces", our moorings are not undervalued as half of them didn't even reach their guide price.

 

So, how many of you have made your MP know what BW are up to? Does the canal bring business to your constituency? IF so, your MP ought to be interested in encouraging boaters. Hiking up mooring rates does not encourage boaters in your area and all businesses will suffer. Is your MP aware of what is happening? Are you doing anything to make sure your MP does realise what is happening? BW will suffer as well as more and more people will resort to bridge-hopping. And when I see boats moored for months on 48hr visitor moorings just down the cut from my BW mooring, I start to wonder who is the bigger fool here.

 

Don't be part of the silent majority, use your MP for what he is employed to do, i.e. represent you.

[mayalld]

just found this

https://mooringtenders.waterscape.com/searc...d=722&type=

highest bid £700 so by my reckoning i owe them £350?

 

That is a tender AFTER this years prices were set.

 

However;

 

http://www.britishwaterways.co.uk/media/do...ort_NE-Mids.pdf

 

Suggests that this mooring has not gone up much in price this year.

[denboy]

so trying to get this in me head

someones got a mooring for 700 quid and according to bw guide lines i should pay %50 of that

 

i have a non bw mooring which bw want to charge me almost the same amount ,if i was not here bw would get nowt from this mooring.

in a nut shell if they dont get as much for the tendered moorings that they want they will railroad the price through anyway

[alan_fincher]

Now even the most rudimentary knowledge of maths would enable you to understand that if just over 50% went for over the guide price, then JUST UNDER 50% went for BELOW the guide price.

 

I think it depends exactly what they are saying.....

 

Quite a few tendered moorings do not seem to reach the (unstated and unpublished) reserve, so remain unlet after the tendering process, (first time around, at least....)

 

It is possible that just over 50% of advertised moorings go for over the reserve price, but the number of those advertised actually granted at less than the reserve price is significantly less than 50%.

 

The difference would be those that were advertised, but not let, because BW weren't prepared to accept someone getting them at a "bargain" price.

[denboy]

So is there anywhere i can find out if the mooring i linked to earlier went for the £700?

[alan_fincher]

So is there anywhere i can find out if the mooring i linked to earlier went for the £700?

I'm no expert, but if it doesn't say "Reserve price not met " I believe they let it at the highest bid shown.

 

My point was only that quite a few ended tendered moorings do show "Reserve price not met " in the bid history, so count as moorings that were put into the process, but not as ones with a successful bidder.

[Big Steve]

My EOG went down by about 20% this year.

[alan_fincher]

just found this

https://mooringtenders.waterscape.com/searc...d=722&type=

highest bid £700 so by my reckoning i owe them £350?

Denis,

 

I maybe missing something here, but the tender you have listed is only for an 11 metre boat, (about 36 foot in "real money").

 

I distinctly get the impression that your boat, (so presumably your mooring!), is a lot more than 36 feet, (could be wrong, I guess).

 

Don't you need to do the comparison on a "per foot" basis, not on the total cost of each mooring, or have I missed something ?

[denboy]

Denis,

 

I maybe missing something here, but the tender you have listed is only for an 11 metre boat, (about 36 foot in "real money").

 

I distinctly get the impression that your boat, (so presumably your mooring!), is a lot more than 36 feet, (could be wrong, I guess).

 

Don't you need to do the comparison on a "per foot" basis, not on the total cost of each mooring, or have I missed something ?

 

will check again but it was a 19mtr mooring

Leisure mooring

 

Guide price £1,600 inc VAT per year

 

19 metre berth

 

Maximum width: 2.5 metres

Edited August 19, 2009 by denboy

[alan_fincher]

will check again but it was a 19mtr mooring

No, not at that price, I think....

 

Several ended the same day at that site.....

 

Here's the detail for the 19 metre one.......

 

Highest tender submitted: £1,800

 

Lowest tender submitted: £1,250

 

Number of tenders received: 2

 

Leisure mooring available, Nottingham & Beeston Canal

19 metre berth at Beeston Lock Offside Moorings

Guide price £1,600 inc VAT per year

Closing date for tenders: 26/03/2009 at 1pm

 

So at £1,800 it actually went at £200 over guide.

 

If they based an EOG fee on half that, you should be paying £900, so if they have asked for £625, I'd think twice before stirring it up too much!

[denboy]

No, not at that price, I think....

 

Several ended the same day at that site.....

 

Here's the detail for the 19 metre one.......

 

 

 

So at £1,800 it actually went at £200 over guide.

 

If they based an EOG fee on half that, you should be paying £900, so if they have asked for £625, I'd think twice before stirring it up too much!

So whats the deal with the tender history when it states £ 700 ?

[mayalld]

so trying to get this in me head

someones got a mooring for 700 quid and according to bw guide lines i should pay %50 of that

 

i have a non bw mooring which bw want to charge me almost the same amount ,if i was not here bw would get nowt from this mooring.

in a nut shell if they dont get as much for the tendered moorings that they want they will railroad the price through anyway

 

No, that isn't how it works!

 

When somebody tenders for a mooring, they get it for the price that they tendered.

 

Quite apart from the price paid by those who tendered, each mooring has a price that is paid by the existing moorers. This price is varied up or down according to what price the tenders make (or if tenders fail to make the reserve). It is NOT automatically set at the tender price.

 

There is also the question of the window used to set prices. Mooring prices are changed each year from 1st April, but are actually set in February. The tender data used is November 2007-October 2008. Tender data from November 2008 to October 2009 will be used in setting the April 2010 prices.

 

So, assume that the mooring that is used to set a particular EOG price was £50 per metre in 2008. From Nov 2007 to Oct 2008 four vacancies were tendered, all received multiple tenders, and they were let for £60,£70,£70 and £100, with 2,3,3 and 4 unsucessful tenders in excess of £50 for the respective vacancies.

 

From this data, BW will conclude that the market price for the mooring is more than £50. They aren't going to conclude that it is £100, but they may conclude that it is somewhere between £60 and £70. They usually limit the increase to 15%, so they would re-price the mooring for existing moorers at £57.50.

 

For those with and EOG mooring permit, their price will increase from £25/m/yr to £28.75/m/yr

[alan_fincher]

So whats the deal with the tender history when it states £ 700 ?

From what I can see the £700 was for an 11 metre mooring at that site, the £1800 was for a 19 metre mooring t that site.

 

The 11 metre one went under the guide price, wheras the 19 metre went over it, (presumably less people are prepared to pay over guide for a small boat than are to secure a mooring for a bigger boat).