lock wooden tie drawings

[the grinch]

does anyone know where i can get a drawing which i know exists, but can't remember where i saw it

 

it shows the construction details for a lock with wooden strengthening tie bars in the walls ? i beleive it may be a Rennie lock but not certain .

 

it is in a book of A4 size approx can anyone point me in the right direction or even a copy of the original document?

[Pluto]

does anyone know where i can get a drawing which i know exists, but can't remember where i saw it

 

it shows the construction details for a lock with wooden strengthening tie bars in the walls ? i beleive it may be a Rennie lock but not certain .

 

it is in a book of A4 size approx can anyone point me in the right direction or even a copy of the original document?

I don't know the book, but wood ties were used on the Chesterfield Canal by Brindley, with the wood framing showing amongst the brickwork of the chamber. There are a couple of reasons for wood framing. It could have been a leftover from when they used wood extensively in lock construction. For example, the early locks on the L&LC in Yorkshire had wooden floors and piling, the stonework of the chamber being built on top of the woodwork. This was fairly typical of locks, including those associated with docks, prior to the 1780s. The stone or brick invert replaced the woodwork as it created a much firmer foundation for the lock chamber. The second possibility is that it was used in areas where there was a possibility of subsidence, such as the mining areas surrounding the Chesterfield Canal.

 

Rennie was working after the 1790s, so it is unlikely that he would have used wood framing to his locks unless there was a specific engineering reason.

[Hairy-Neil]

Rennie was working after the 1790s, so it is unlikely that he would have used wood framing to his locks unless there was a specific engineering reason.

 

Cobblers Lock on the Sleaford Navigation has wooden ties in the walls. It was built c.1792 - 1794 under William Jessop's watch.

[Tim Lewis]

Cobblers Lock on the Sleaford Navigation has wooden ties in the walls. It was built c.1792 - 1794 under William Jessop's watch.

 

Have worked on two locks in recent weeks with timber ties these being Eisey Lock on te Thames & Severn and Baylam lock on the River Gipping navigation - will post pictures when I have time.

 

Tim

Edited July 26, 2009 by Tim Lewis

[magnetman]

does anyone know where i can get a drawing which i know exists, but can't remember where i saw it

 

it shows the construction details for a lock with wooden strengthening tie bars in the walls ? i beleive it may be a Rennie lock but not certain .

 

it is in a book of A4 size approx can anyone point me in the right direction or even a copy of the original document?

 

It might be in the waterways archives somewhere:

 

http://www.virtualwaterways.co.uk/home.html

[the grinch]

as i said wasn't sure of the engineer. the reason for wanting the info is that we were discussing,

the fact that wooden ties were used on some locks including the Wey & Arun where we have found possible ties in at least 2 locks

the lock restoration gang are interested in how they stabilise the walls in soft ground.

any pictures would be really useful

thanks all.

 

kev

Edited July 27, 2009 by hamsterfan

[Graham_Robinson]

Edward Paget-Tomlinson's Illustrated History has a line drawing based on Rennies spec. for the K&A

[Tim Lewis]

Have worked on two locks in recent weeks with timber ties these being Eisey Lock on te Thames & Severn and Baylam lock on the River Gipping navigation - will post pictures when I have time.

 

Tim

 

 

Eventually found the time, pictures here.

 

Tim

[the grinch]

thanks sparky2 will check it out as soon as i can

thanks tim your a star

[Pluto]

It would be interesting to know on which canals and navigations timber ties were used. Contemporary engineering drawings do not show them (if anyone knows of any that do, I would be most interestied), with counterforts or buttresses being used to strengthen chamber walls. Were wooden ties just something used by specific local contractors who were not up with the latest developments in construction technology? The site engineers for both the T&SC and the Gipping had links with the Thames where they were not noted for their advanced thinking regarding lock design. The other possibility is the effect of ground conditions on the stability of walls. Were timber ties used where there was the possibility of settlement or where the materials were not good, and not used where there were decent foundations.

[Max Sinclair]

Builders up to the 18th Century were not totally confident about brick, mainly because firing temperatures were low. All Brindleys locks on Staffs and Worcester, Droitwich Barge and Chesterfield have Elm framing and lintels. Canal Bridges stand on abutments created by laying trees horizontally below the canal bed and building up the arch in brick or stone.

The legacy is our 'Black and White' houses all over the country. The brick or clay infill added little to the buildings strength.

Edited August 12, 2009 by Max Sinclair

[antarmike]

Though not totally related, but I was on the stoppage at Marsworth Top Lock when its wooden cill was taken out. It was reputed to be the last wooden cill on the original G.J.C. line The Cill was made of elm planks about six inches thick and 18 inches wide. The Cill covered the bootom of the lock from about three feet from the Hinge/ Coin post to about three feet into the chamber, past the recess for the gates to open into.

 

The elm planks went about two feet under the masonasry walls of the lock. Each plank was grooved along its length on both long sides, and into this groove, between each plank was a wrought Iron strip, about 3/4" thick . Drilled through all the planks were several tie bar hole 1 1/2" to 1 3/4" diameter through whicl long wrought iron rods passed. The ends of the rods had nuts to pull all the planks tight together.

 

To get the cill out we had to chisel through the wood with pneumatic road drill with asphalt point, to expose the wrought iron bars. These were cut out in sections with Oxy-Acetylene. Next we had to completely take two feet of plank out the middle of one plank and jack, and pull the remainder of the plank from under the masonary wall.

 

When we could see the end, we chiselled away all the wood to expose the wrought iron flat strips, let into the grooves in the planks. The strips were cut into lengths, and removed. We could then pull the other half of the plank out from under the other wall. We moved to the next plank and repeated the process. Work would stop while the wall was underpinned were we had taken out the wood, then we moved onto another section. Eventually after about two weeks we had all the wood out and a new concrete bottom was cast, incorpoarting ailway lines and rag bolts to form the closing face of the new cill.

 

The cill had been in place probably for 180 years whenwe took it out.

 

I saw not the slightest sign of rot, and remeber each piece was a complete and utter bustard to get out.

 

We took quite a lot of the Elm away to burn on the fire at the Cowroast lockhouse, but it never dried out enough to even start to burn.

[Rick-n-Jo]

The cill had been in place probably for 180 years whenwe took it out.

 

I saw not the slightest sign of rot, and remeber each piece was a complete and utter bustard to get out.

 

Not having a go really, just curious, but if there was nowt wrong with it, why take it out? The process sounds, on the face of it, like heritage vandalism!

 

BW wouldn't demolish a brick bridge just to replace it in concrete, merely 'cos concrete is better/stronger/cheaper etc. In fact they make a big fuss about things like using the correct type of lime mortar. Is a cill treated differently because it's out of sight?

 

Rick

Edited February 7, 2010 by Rick-n-Jo

[antarmike]

Maybe they suspected a leak. Tring Summit is water critical. There could have been leaks between the boards, or between the masonary walls, and the planks. We were dropping in new gates also, so maybe the pivot cups were suspect. Just Dunno...

Edited February 7, 2010 by antarmike

[Derek R.]

Looking elsewhere for something different, I came across an image entitled 'Amateur photographers' in the Mary Evans collection, which depicts two such gents beside a lock with supporting wooden structure above the gates. I have no idea whereabouts this may have been taken, perhaps someone can identify the spot, though it will surely have changed greatly over the years - assuming it was in the UK of course! Using the search window enter amateur photographers, and you will get a selection of five. You will see which one I mean. Search here.

 

Derek Reynolds.

[Pluto]

Looking elsewhere for something different, I came across an image entitled 'Amateur photographers' in the Mary Evans collection, which depicts two such gents beside a lock with supporting wooden structure above the gates. I have no idea whereabouts this may have been taken, perhaps someone can identify the spot, though it will surely have changed greatly over the years - assuming it was in the UK of course! Using the search window enter amateur photographers, and you will get a selection of five. You will see which one I mean. Search here.

 

Derek Reynolds.

It could be one of the East Anglian waterways which had similar locks with wooden framework. You find such locks where there are poor foundations, the framework forming a stable tube through which boats sail. The tube being fairly strong allows the gate mitres to seal properly and stops the chamber walls from moving. I found a preserved one at Bleiswyck a few miles north of Rotterdam.

 

Edited to say that I recently came across photos I took c1975 when the locks at Runcorn were cleared so that a rainwater sewer could be put in for the new road connection to the bridge over the Mersey. There were vertical wooden pieces inserted into the stonework of the chamber walls, though from the photos it was difficult to decide whether they were part of a framework or just rubbing pieces.

Edited February 8, 2010 by Pluto