Pershore moorings 30th May.

[Terence]

So here it is - the

 

Enjoy!

You could have showed the Cratch and Mast Head light then I would have been on telly.

Terence

[Dawnie]

Surely if the OP asked the boats to shuffle up and was accommodated then the boat for disabled could have done the same?

Or are you saying here that people should shuffle up anyway, in case another boat comes along?

 

That would work fine if every one was staying but what if you all shuffle up and then the centre boat leaves do you shuffle up again. And so on. Be a bit like playing musical chairs only with boats and without the music!

 

The comment about a small boat mooring in a large gap but still leaving another small gap would more than likely shuffle up if asked. But if positioned next to a boat would not need to.

Or are you saying that a small boat should not moor in a large gap?

 

This all smacks of Narrowboats versus cruisers or is it really the forum versus Phylis? Normal state of affairs on here it seems!

 

(And don't bother saying "if you don't like it then go elsewhere" as has been said on here to others who have dared to comment, I never said I didn't like it, I just made an observation)

 

I agree with Phylis in part (at the risk of being shot down in flames) if you want to moor in a certain place then you have to plan your trip to ensure you reach there in time to allow yourself to do so. Then if you can't get in you still have time to find an alternative!

 

She did not say that she condoned taking up more space than necessary but that if there was a large gap then she would use it, as would I. She also said that she would moor sensibly so as to leave another smaller gap for a smaller boat as would I.

 

Are you saying that small boats should give way to a longer boat and not moor in a space that would fit a longer narrowboat?

 

All this assuming that there is one space left on the mooring. If more than one then yes you use the most suitable gap to the size of your boat or share the one where another boat can still get in!

 

Are you also saying that if the moorings are full and a boat for the disabled turns up then you should leave the mooring so they can get in?

 

It may be more practical for two or so of the cruisers or one narrowbaot to move out, let the narrowboat for the disabled in and then the two cruisers or other narrowboat breast up with the narrowboat for the disabled assuming the water is wide enough! If it not then that only leaves the point just above this one!

Edited June 23, 2009 by Carol Whale

[RLWP]

This all smacks of Narrowboats versus cruisers or is it really the forum versus Phylis? Normal state of affairs on here it seems!

 

Don't think so. The OP has posted a video that supposedly shows "wasteful" mooring of cruisers. I've watched it and it doesn't look any different to moorings anywhere else. The gaps seem to be about 6' between boats which I think is reasonable.

 

I'm not sure the OP's argument is supported by the video.

 

Richard

[saltysplash]

This all smacks of Narrowboats versus cruisers or is it really the forum versus Phylis? Normal state of affairs on here it seems!

 

(

 

 

Its a widespread problem across the board as far I see.

 

Narrowboaters for some reason seem to have a natural aversion to mooring close to each other at busy spots and can often be seen leaving gaps of two rings or more from the next boat. Cruiser forums on the thames all seem to moan about this yet they are also guilty of the same tactics.

 

nb's also seem to fear "rafting up" or "breasting up" except during organised festivals. Im sure it stems from the feeling of getting away from other people and wanting the isolation.

 

AFAIC all it needs at popular spots is a little consideration for each other. If a boat moves off leaving a small gap and you can increase the space by pulling forwards, then that is what i'll do. It matters not if the new space is taken up by two cruisers or 1 narrowboat, what matters is space has been made available.

[Naughty Cal]

AFAIC all it needs at popular spots is a little consideration for each other. If a boat moves off leaving a small gap and you can increase the space by pulling forwards, then that is what i'll do. It matters not if the new space is taken up by two cruisers or 1 narrowboat, what matters is space has been made available.

 

So we should all play "musical boats" every time someone moves?

 

What if you have left your boat to go shopping/to the pub?

[journeyperson]

Narrowboaters for some reason seem to have a natural aversion to mooring close to each other at busy spots and can often be seen leaving gaps of two rings or more from the next boat. Cruiser forums on the thames all seem to moan about this yet they are also guilty of the same tactics.

 

 

If I arrive at a rural mooring and there are only one or two boats there I don't like mooring too close because it feels like I'm invading someone's personal space, then later the mooring can become busy, at which point I am happy to move closer. If the mooring gets busy whilst I'm away from the boat I will probably be cursed by would-be moorers.

[saltysplash]

So we should all play "musical boats" every time someone moves?

 

What if you have left your boat to go shopping/to the pub?

 

 

At busy spots why not. If your not on your boat then you cant move it can you.

 

When you eventually get out to sea and visit some harbours you will certainly be expected to play "musical boats" because you WILL be expected to "raft up" and if your the first to arrive and on the inside and you want an early start the next day and someone arrive on your outside, it is common practice to then reposition yourself to the outside unless your neighbour is happy waking up in good time to allow you to leave

[Naughty Cal]

 

Take the example above.

 

Who is in the wrong?

 

My answer the narrowboat ahead of Cal. We had followed the three NB's behind Cal from the previous lock. They had moored up we moored in front of them leaving a few foot for them to manouvre the following day (and allowing for our stern gear which sticks out a foot or so from the rear of Cal). The NB ahead of Cal arrived that afternoon leaving far too much room in front of Cal.

 

So if we are to follow your argument i should move to a smaller space, giving up the space that i had got there early for knowing it would be busy that evening because a bigger boat cant get in front.

 

At busy spots why not. If your not on your boat then you cant move it can you.

 

When you eventually get out to sea and visit some harbours you will certainly be expected to play "musical boats" because you WILL be expected to "raft up" and if your the first to arrive and on the inside and you want an early start the next day and someone arrive on your outside, it is common practice to then reposition yourself to the outside unless your neighbour is happy waking up in good time to allow you to leave

 

We've often rafted up with other boats. York was a prime example of having to. Im not opposed to doing that.

Edited June 23, 2009 by Phylis

[saltysplash]

If I arrive at a rural mooring and there are only one or two boats there I don't like mooring too close because it feels like I'm invading someone's personal space, then later the mooring can become busy, at which point I am happy to move closer. If the mooring gets busy whilst I'm away from the boat I will probably be cursed by would-be moorers.

 

 

At secluded rural moorings I agree as many times it a matter of finding a deep enough spot anyway.

If im looking for seclusion and see another boat moored then ill keep going till there is no one around

[FadeToScarlet]

 

Take the example above.

 

Who is in the wrong?

 

My answer the narrowboat ahead of Cal. We had followed the three NB's behind Cal from the previous lock. They had moored up we moored in front of them leaving a few foot for them to manouvre the following day. The NB ahead of Cal arrived that afternoon leaving far too much room in front of Cal.

 

So if we are to follow your argument i should move to a smaller space, giving up the space that i had got there early for knowing it would be busy that evening because a bigger boat cant get in front.

 

 

 

We've often rafted up with other boats. York was a prime example of having to. Im not opposed to doing that.

 

No-one is in the "wrong" as such. If another narrowboat comes along and won't fit the space, then they can either breast up with another narrowboat, ask the narrowboat on the other side of the gap to move forward if there is space (which sounds like the best option), or if you were feeling generous, Phylis, you could breast up alongside the narrowboat once it's in the gap, share a few beers, slag off the guy ahead for not moving, and all is sweetness and light. A cruiser would fit in the gap, with no hastle. (Incidentally, looking at the photo, it appears that there's a bigger gap between you and the narrowboat behind you than there is between that boat and the narrowboat behind it... )

 

One of my biggest bug-bears is people not sharing mooring bollards and rings. On the Cam, I'm afraid to say that it's predominantly cruiser owners who won't share. Bearing in mind that the bollards are 10' or so apart, then that's a great deal of wasted space. I've often come down to the visitor moorings to see more than enough space to fit two 50' narrowboats on the moorings, if everyone had moved up and shared rings.

 

Playing "narrowboat Tetris", to fit into a gap that's only about 2' longer than the boat, coming in on a flowing river, is great fun.

 

The next level up on Narrowboat Tetris is to have a 60' boat with a 45' boat being towed, breasted up. Fitting the 45' boat into the 48' gap, at night, by torchlight, was great fun!

[Naughty Cal]

But if playing by the rules of some on here i should bugger off and find another spot. Not really how the world works though is it.

 

As it happens we did get another cruiser in there who then complained about the NB in front.

 

(Incidentally, looking at the photo, it appears that there's a bigger gap between you and the narrowboat behind you than there is between that boat and the narrowboat behind it... )

 

Stern gear sticks out about a foot from the rear of Cal. Dont really want that clanging on the side of a NB all night

[carlt]

Having watched the video I can't see the problem. The cruisers are in spaces, allocated, presumably, by the blue posts and there were very few unreasonable gaps.

 

Should the owner of a Fiat 500 not take a normal car park space, in case an estate car comes along?

 

The OP says that boaters were prepared to shuffle, when asked, so, presumably, the charity boat operator didn't ask.

 

As SS says, rafting up, on Salty moorings is far more common but it is also good manners to ask (and bad manners to refuse) and the shuffling that often ensues, makes inland mooring dances look positively boring.

 

Having a big sea boat means that, if I arrive last, everyone has to move, so that my boat becomes the pontoon.

 

It's also notable, from the video, that the only boats who bothered rafting up were cruisers.

[saltysplash]

 

Take the example above.

 

Who is in the wrong?

 

My answer the narrowboat ahead of Cal. We had followed the three NB's behind Cal from the previous lock. They had moored up we moored in front of them leaving a few foot for them to manouvre the following day (and allowing for our stern gear which sticks out a foot or so from the rear of Cal). The NB ahead of Cal arrived that afternoon leaving far too much room in front of Cal.

 

So if we are to follow your argument i should move to a smaller space, giving up the space that i had got there early for knowing it would be busy that evening because a bigger boat cant get in front.

 

 

 

We've often rafted up with other boats. York was a prime example of having to. Im not opposed to doing that.

 

 

My argument is nothing of the sort. In your example, the Narrowboat is in the wrong and shouldve moored closer to you.

It is you Phylis that is not reading the posts properly

 

But if playing by the rules of some on here i should bugger off and find another spot. Not really how the world works though is it.

 

 

read the posts again. You would not be expected to bugger off at all.

[Naughty Cal]

"Most people with normally developed senses of fair play and courtesy would know instinctively that mooring in such a way as to reduce the opportunity for others to moor is bad manners."

 

 

Salty whats the post above imply.

 

To the boater sailing past, how do they know that i have moored first. They dont, as far as they are concerned i have taken up more space than needed.

 

 

read the posts again. You would not be expected to bugger off at all.

 

No just keep shuffling all day. Could soon get pretty tiresome.

[carlt]

In your example, the Narrowboat is in the wrong and shouldve moored closer to you.

Should he, though?

 

The front boat appears to have left a reasonable space, for an average sized narrowboat to fit in (the bollards are, presumably at 60' gaps, which appear to be the norm, these days).

 

It's not his fault the space was filled by a cruiser and it's not Phylis' fault the spaces are designed for bigger boats.

 

I don't see how anybody is at fault, in this instance.

Edited June 23, 2009 by carlt

[Naughty Cal]

In this instance there are rings in the wall at closer spacings. The bollards are designed for much bigger boats than use the river today. Think they are at about 35/40 ft spacings (the rings that is)

[saltysplash]

"Most people with normally developed senses of fair play and courtesy would know instinctively that mooring in such a way as to reduce the opportunity for others to moor is bad manners."

 

 

Salty whats the post above imply.

 

To the boater sailing past, how do they know that i have moored first. They dont, as far as they are concerned i have taken up more space than needed.

 

 

 

 

just keep shuffling all day. Could soon get pretty tiresome.

 

 

The boater going past will hopefully see a small gap, also see that other boats are moored nose to tail and will sail on or will ask to raft up to another boat. You would not be expected to move just because a bigger boat wants to come alongside.

 

If everyone moored nose to tail and used the same mooring rings then there wouldn't be any need for shuffling.

 

Its all hypothetical anyway coz folks will just carry on doing as they do now

[Naughty Cal]

Thats true. In an ideal world we would all moor where we want when we want. However we dont live in an ideal world and there is no way of making sure that you can always moor where you want to. If there is room moor sensibly, if there isnt raft up (where possible) and failing that find somewhere else. Some of the best mooring spots are the ones you find by accident.

[saltysplash]

Should he, though?

 

The front boat appears to have left a reasonable space, for an average sized narrowboat to fit in (the bollards are, presumably at 60' gaps, which appear to be the norm, these days).

 

It's not his fault the space was filled by a cruiser and it's not Phylis' fault the spaces are designed for bigger boats.

 

I don't see how anybody is at fault, in this instance.

 

 

I think in the example given Phylis said the front nb arrived after Cal had moored, and if that was the case then he should really've pulled back upto Cal.

If Cal moored in the Gap behind the nb then I agree and there is no problem at all.

[carlt]

I think in the example given Phylis said the front nb arrived after Cal had moored, and if that was the case then he should really've pulled back upto Cal.

I agree (or gone further up, leaving a 72' gap).

[Naughty Cal]

I agree (or gone further up, leaving a 72' gap).

 

Would have prefered him to pull back. Dont like watching NB's attempting to moor in close quarters. As it happens a little cruiser got in so all was fine.

[mayalld]

Surely if the OP asked the boats to shuffle up and was accommodated then the boat for disabled could have done the same?

Or are you saying here that people should shuffle up anyway, in case another boat comes along?

 

That would work fine if every one was staying but what if you all shuffle up and then the centre boat leaves do you shuffle up again. And so on. Be a bit like playing musical chairs only with boats and without the music!

 

The comment about a small boat mooring in a large gap but still leaving another small gap would more than likely shuffle up if asked. But if positioned next to a boat would not need to.

Or are you saying that a small boat should not moor in a large gap?

 

This all smacks of Narrowboats versus cruisers or is it really the forum versus Phylis? Normal state of affairs on here it seems!

 

(And don't bother saying "if you don't like it then go elsewhere" as has been said on here to others who have dared to comment, I never said I didn't like it, I just made an observation)

 

I agree with Phylis in part (at the risk of being shot down in flames) if you want to moor in a certain place then you have to plan your trip to ensure you reach there in time to allow yourself to do so. Then if you can't get in you still have time to find an alternative!

 

She did not say that she condoned taking up more space than necessary but that if there was a large gap then she would use it, as would I. She also said that she would moor sensibly so as to leave another smaller gap for a smaller boat as would I.

 

Are you saying that small boats should give way to a longer boat and not moor in a space that would fit a longer narrowboat?

 

All this assuming that there is one space left on the mooring. If more than one then yes you use the most suitable gap to the size of your boat or share the one where another boat can still get in!

 

Are you also saying that if the moorings are full and a boat for the disabled turns up then you should leave the mooring so they can get in?

 

It may be more practical for two or so of the cruisers or one narrowbaot to move out, let the narrowboat for the disabled in and then the two cruisers or other narrowboat breast up with the narrowboat for the disabled assuming the water is wide enough! If it not then that only leaves the point just above this one!

 

As somebody who is strongly in the "don't use excess space" camp, let me set out my views a little more clearly!

 

• On busy moorings (and I would suggest that by default most moorings where rings are provided should probably be assumed to be busy moorings), boats should try to moor so as to maximise the chances that a space will be available to another boat that comes along wishing to moor.
  
• When arriving at a mooring, you should normally go for the smallest spot that will accomodate your boat, unless mooring in a larger gap will maximise the opportunity for others to moor (for example, if your boat is 30', and there is a 60' and a 100' gap, you should moor at one end of the 100' gap, leaving a 60' and a 70' remaining)
  
• Share mooring rings. Your rope and the rope of the next boat along should go through the same ring. Mooring to the next ring up wastes space on the mooring.
  
• Clearly, even if you do moor with consideration, it is likely that as boats come and go from the mooring, wasted space will creep in, as not all boats are the same size. It isn't necessary to shuffle boats every time somebody leaves or arrives, but you should watch how things go over the course of the time that you are moored, and if it progresses to the point where there are lots of 15' gaps and no spaces that boats can use, you should pro-actively make more space.
  
• In particular, if you moored up early, you should take a look at how things look at (say) 4pm when many people will be starting to think of mooring for the night.
  
• I'm not a fan of the "I'll move up if somebody asks" argument. It always strikes me as being rather grudging, and sends out the unspoken message of "I'll let you moor here if you really must, but I am setting my stall out to discourage you." Rather like the guy on the train yesterday with his bag on the seat next to him. Every time the train came into a station, he looked intently at his laptop, so that the people getting on wouldn't be able to make eye contact, and he could pretend not to notice that people were looking for seats. Of course he would make space if asked, but he was trying to stack things in order to ensure that he was less likely to be asked.
  

[Hairy-Neil]

This problem is down to human nature, similar situation in this as I see it...... (starts around 1.50)

 

[Dawnie]

"Rather like the guy on the train yesterday with his bag on the seat next to him. Every time the train came into a station, he looked intently at his laptop, so that the people getting on wouldn't be able to make eye contact, and he could pretend not to notice that people were looking for seats. Of course he would make space if asked, but he was trying to stack things in order to ensure that he was less likely to be asked".

 

Not like my commute then, most people wouldn't ask they would just take the bag off the seat if they were ignored. 1 1/2 hours standing is no fun when you have paid £4000.00 for the privilege!

 

I agree we should not use excess space and should monitor the situation in busy spots if there early but we will never please all the people all the time!

[PaulG]

That his big boat wouldnt fit where he wanted to moor

 

Please don't put words into my mouth, Phylis. I never said that, or anything near to it, or anything that could possibly even imply it. I don't mind you disagreeing with me, and you are perfectly entitled to your opinion.

 

That's just a typical "Strawman" tactic that some people use when they're hopelessly losing an argument...

 

P