mooring fees

[umpire]

is any residential on great heywood marina, need to know how the site is to gauge the way your treated going to secure a mooring i think at tattenhall cheers

[sueb]

im trying to get a mooring before the boat not much time left though due to circumstances

Good for you. I hope you are successful, so many people do it the other way round.

Sue

[Smelly]

HEADS up on this one , someone has recently secured a mooring at the limekilns on the ashby, BW, 18METRE ,LEISURE MOORING, NO FACILITIES, NO PARKING, TERRIBLE ACCESS, by tender for £1880 pounds per year. The guide price was only £900 per year. Watch very closely the guide prices rocket in the future fueled i suspect by non liveaboards ,still in work. With more money than sense. Lots of my friends who were originaly in the waiting list for a vacant mooring on this location, prior to the tendering system have had their noses rubbed in it by BW who will continue to hound them for bridge hopping, because of work and school commitments. Shame!!

 

 

Yes Nabo.org have always worked to help boaters and rboa.org work only for liveaboards. But why don't people read the rules and get a mooring before getting a boat?

Sue

 

It's not the first time I've said this...

 

BW's power to charge mooring fees was confirmed in a House of Lords (poss CA but I doubt it) decision called Dawkins which, having been made in the early 80s isn't (at my last search) available online, although I've got copies of BW literature citing it. It found that the right to charge a fee arose partly under the '68 Transport Act and in part in Common Law; as the riparian owners of the canal system. They're allowed to charge a REASONABLE fee for their moorings which imparts a fetter on how much they can charge which arguably renders the tendering system illegal as there's no fetters.

 

Now under a lesser section of the '95 British Waterways Act challenges under that act are by arbitration, so somebody needs to complain to the BW ombudsman using these grounds. As a person with a mooring I'm on very weak grounds as in arbitration the arbitrator has discretion to disregard my arguments, however an interested party might make some ground, and it doesn't cost anything.

 

I've emailed IWA and RBOA, I've tried joining RBOA but they haven't replied to both postal and email applications (forgot about NABO tho...). All it would take is one person who's willing to make a well founded complaint. I suspect any of the "associations" are no longer minded to do so and would be interested to know of recent action to contradict me... SOW comes to mind.

 

If I'm wrong about the arbitration then a section of the '83 act, imparts High Court functions to the County Court which only costs a couple of hundred quid and for the sake of my train fare and a pint I'll represent anyone who wishes to take action although I don't think it needs CC action, just an ombudsman's complaint.

 

I'm not going to go off searching for links now as my bed's calling (Dave... I'm busy most of tomorrow and I'd imagine you've got them in your fave's ) but it'd be an interesting barrack room debate to establish whether I'm wrong at least (but not 'til next Monday). If I'm not, find me a complainant and I'll draft the letters.

 

Sue "Why don't people read the rules" I suspect is the reason RBOA have ignored 3 membership applications. I'm admittedly disillusioned by the "associations" as I've never seen them actually do anything despite reasoned argument that something could be done.

[bastonjock]

mr smelly if i was on a mooring i would take you up on your offer.My grandfather would have loved you,he was a self taught legal adviser to the poor in Glasgow,he battled the councill and landlords to help people.

 

Your offer is ist class and i hope that someone takes you up on it,its quickly aproaching 2k for a riverside mooring,next there will be parking meters on the tow path.

[Naughty Cal]

Dont go giving them ideas

[Lady Muck]

Yes Nabo.org have always worked to help boaters and rboa.org work only for liveaboards. But why don't people read the rules and get a mooring before getting a boat?

Sue

 

Because they think they will be able to manage without? Because they don't want to listen to those of us who are doing it and know the pitfalls? Because they don't want to pay what it actually costs? Because 'everyone else' is doing it? Because they have no idea how hard it can be to keep a boat without a mooring? Just some thoughts, like.

 

is there no action groups set up by liveaboard chaps and chapesses then, bw are after all there for everyone or so i thought, i dont mind paying my way for the such but then again like the housing market they will price out the lower earners and genuine people who have decided or have traditionally lived on the water

 

Thing is; living afloat is not seen as the same as housing in a bricks n' mortar house by the housing authorities - they don't like liveaboards because they see them as a liability if the boat sinks. Back in the eighties when a friend of mine was liveaboard he could get his boat pumped out by the fire brigade when it sank (every fortnight apparently) and when it finally gave up the ghost he got a council flat!

 

That's one of the reasons marinas struggle to get planning permission, there are plenty of others. Boaters are not as loathed as travellers but they are sometimes blamed for similar problems. The only genuine people who have traditionally lived on the water are the working boatmen. I don't think any marina owners give a toss about pricing out the lower earners, to them boating is an expensive leisure activity, not a social service.

 

I do see BW applying for residential mooring planning permission quite often in London but it always seems to get turned down by the LA involved.

Edited April 3, 2009 by Lady Muck

[Smelly]

mr smelly if i was on a mooring i would take you up on your offer.My grandfather would have loved you,he was a self taught legal adviser to the poor in Glasgow,he battled the councill and landlords to help people.

 

Admittedly it was CABx CPAG and a good number of Judges that taught me but I'm sure we'd've got on... I find most advisers, in common with boaters don't mind a tipple or two as well...

 

I do see BW applying for residential mooring planning permission quite often in London but it always seems to get turned down by the LA involved.

 

And don't forget the lack of CTax liability and the paucity of people being registered to vote... I was at a "Community Policing" meeting last year with a local councillor who had a few afterwards in my local, she was overheard telling a crony something akin to "no-one's interested in helping Gas St, there's only two of them registered to vote"

[Dekazer]

I do see BW applying for residential mooring planning permission quite often in London but it always seems to get turned down by the LA involved.

 

Apparently when they built the new marina at the old Taylor Woodrow site near Greenford the developers applied for 50% residential use. Ealing council's response? 'Why don't you want 100% - you can have it if you want it'. The marina's now 100% residential, council tax band A.

 

Having said that, that would have been before the Tories took control from Labour last year. Although they have frozen the council tax for the new financial year...

[canalchris]

Yes Nabo.org have always worked to help boaters and rboa.org work only for liveaboards. But why don't people read the rules and get a mooring before getting a boat?

Sue

 

WHAT rules are there that say "you must have a mooring before getting a boat". We all know that it is pure folly to buy a boat as a newbie if you have no secure mooring for it. But the friends Iam talking about are almost to a man, ex marina boaters who got thoruoghly cheesed off living in a floating housing estate, so they under no circumstances could be accused of not reading the "rules"???

[sueb]

WHAT rules are there that say "you must have a mooring before getting a boat". We all know that it is pure folly to buy a boat as a newbie if you have no secure mooring for it. But the friends Iam talking about are almost to a man, ex marina boaters who got thoruoghly cheesed off living in a floating housing estate, so they under no circumstances could be accused of not reading the "rules"???

There are no rules saying you must have a mooring but there are rules about continuous cruising. I don't blame the marina boaters leaving it is my idea of hell, but then we are retired so moving doesn't bother us. It is very difficult to CC and try and stay in one area, just collecting water and emptying the loo can be very time consuming, apart from the lack of privacy moored on the towpath.

Sue

[umpire]

well guys going today to see about my mooring see what happens

[umpire]

got my mooring onward and forwards

[sueb]

got my mooring onward and forwards

congratulation

Sue

[umpire]

congratulation

Sue

thanks

[Orca]

Apparently when they built the new marina at the old Taylor Woodrow site near Greenford the developers applied for 50% residential use. Ealing council's response? 'Why don't you want 100% - you can have it if you want it'. The marina's now 100% residential, council tax band A.

 

Having said that, that would have been before the Tories took control from Labour last year. Although they have frozen the council tax for the new financial year...

 

Yep, and I suspect that this happens quite a bit more than 'they' would lead us to believe.......that is, in some respects it is NOT the councils that hinder the development of resi mooring, but equally it is the Marina's/Boatyards refusal to spend money on improving their amenities so as to facilitate residential permission. This was a notable cause recently at a site in the Midlands where the cost of improving the toilets and fresh water facilities, precluded the potential for residential development, even though many 'unofficial' liveaboards were prepared to pay more for 'official' status..

Edited April 11, 2009 by Orca

[umpire]

a

[ditchcrawler]

got my mooring onward and forwards

Well gone, enjoy.