water ballast

[afslondon]

I am embarassed to ask such a naive question, but I wonder if colleagues can help me with a puzzle?

I have quite an old boat (of unknown provenance)...made in c.1970. Its ballast seems to consist of a large water tank along much of the length of the vessel. How is that level of water maintained at a proper level?

See; I told you it was naive !!!!

A

[BeckyJC]

I am embarassed to ask such a naive question, but I wonder if colleagues can help me with a puzzle?

I have quite an old boat (of unknown provenance)...made in c.1970. Its ballast seems to consist of a large water tank along much of the length of the vessel. How is that level of water maintained at a proper level?

See; I told you it was naive !!!!

A

Are you sure it's ballast and not water that has leaked into the cabin bilge from somewhere? Has there always been water in that space?

 

Becky

[afslondon]

Are you sure it's ballast and not water that has leaked into the cabin bilge from somewhere? Has there always been water in that space?

 

Becky

Hm....thanks Becky; well I am not wholly sure.But all the time I have had the boat there has been water there, which I took to be ballast...maybe I should get it pumped out and see what happens? I can always fill it back up again!

[BeckyJC]

Hm....thanks Becky; well I am not wholly sure.But all the time I have had the boat there has been water there, which I took to be ballast...maybe I should get it pumped out and see what happens? I can always fill it back up again!

Sure others will correct me if I'm wrong here, but I have not heard of using water as ballast on a narrowboat (I assume it's a narrowboat?) before. How deep is the water in there? Normally, water in the cabin bilge is a sign of something leaking! Is there any other ballast in /under this water?

 

Do you also have water in the engine bilge?

 

Becky

 

 

 

 

 

Hm....thanks Becky; well I am not wholly sure.But all the time I have had the boat there has been water there, which I took to be ballast...maybe I should get it pumped out and see what happens? I can always fill it back up again!

Have you ever had the boat surveyed? Did the surveyor / survey report say anything about this water?

[afslondon]

Sure others will correct me if I'm wrong here, but I have not heard of using water as ballast on a narrowboat (I assume it's a narrowboat?) before. How deep is the water in there? Normally, water in the cabin bilge is a sign of something leaking! Is there any other ballast in /under this water?

 

Do you also have water in the engine bilge?

 

Becky

 

 

 

 

 

 

Have you ever had the boat surveyed? Did the surveyor / survey report say anything about this water?

Hi..yes I had it surveyed and nothing was said about the ballast. I know that Sea Otters (mine is not one) use water ballast and so I thought it might be a common feature. There is a small amount of water in the engine bilge, but nothing to give cause for concern, since I know the source of that. I just dont know if there is anything under the water, which appears to be about 6 or 7 inches deep. I think at the weekend I will pump it out and see what happens..

sorry to read of yr own problems...I am scratching my head to think of something that might have been overlooked!

A

[johnjo]

Hi..yes I had it surveyed and nothing was said about the ballast. I know that Sea Otters (mine is not one) use water ballast and so I thought it might be a common feature. There is a small amount of water in the engine bilge, but nothing to give cause for concern, since I know the source of that. I just dont know if there is anything under the water, which appears to be about 6 or 7 inches deep. I think at the weekend I will pump it out and see what happens..

sorry to read of yr own problems...I am scratching my head to think of something that might have been overlooked!

A

 

What type of craft is yours? if steel I would have thought water was not good for ballast, pump it out, dry it out, and if the craft is now too light, replace with paving slabs [whole or broken] or better still engineering bricks, [less obsorbent].

[steelaway]

Hi..yes I had it surveyed and nothing was said about the ballast. I know that Sea Otters (mine is not one) use water ballast and so I thought it might be a common feature. There is a small amount of water in the engine bilge, but nothing to give cause for concern, since I know the source of that. I just dont know if there is anything under the water, which appears to be about 6 or 7 inches deep. I think at the weekend I will pump it out and see what happens..

 

hi

I have never heared of a water ballasting exept on aluminium boats.

There must be some other ballast in there somewhere.

I would also need to find out where this water is coming from

There has been mention on here of a drain arrangment being under the floor but its not recommended

 

Alex

[Liam]

As already mentioned, you should only have water in your main cabin bilge if you have a leak... unless of course it is a Harborough or other similar boat which uses the wet bilge setup but even then it shouldn't be 6 or 7 inches deep and should all run to the main engine bilge for pumping out.

[Smelly]

Southam had water ballast in two huge plastic tanks, she's a rather tall boat and it was a good way to get her airdraught down, however they needed to be removed to get access to the bottoms.

 

Never heard of another boat where this has been done though.

[Keeping Up]

"Hawkesbury" was fitted with water ballast tanks so she could be lowered to a good depth in deep water, but raised for shallow water. But they were definitely tanks, not just loose water in the bilge.

[Guest]

Water that can slosh about is very ineffective ballast, as the centre of gravity will shift. To be effective ballast, water would have to be in tanks as suggested by others (Sea Otters are a good example). Sounds like you have a plumbing leak or similar.

[saltysplash]

As liam says, you could have a Wet Bilge which was quite common on boats in the 70's

 

Make sure the drain channels leading back to the engine compartment/stern are not clogged with fluff and rust

[afslondon]

Southam had water ballast in two huge plastic tanks, she's a rather tall boat and it was a good way to get her airdraught down, however they needed to be removed to get access to the bottoms.

 

Never heard of another boat where this has been done though.

 

 

Well what can I say? I told you I was naive....I really do appreciate your comments, and come Saturday I will be be acting on them...thank you!!! (of course if it all goes badly wrong...the writ is in the post!)

A

[Painter Type]

Water for ballast is fine, I spent some time designing ballast control systems for semi-submersible oil rigs.

 

However, as someone else has pointed out, ballast would be housed and pumped in and out of sealed tanks designed for the job. Tanks running the length of the boat sounds good to alter your draught - but you would need some seperation (fwd, aft) to alter trim.

 

Interesting.

[Yoda]

I suspect it's blocked drains causing a water build up. No one would have untanked water as ballast. A dye test would prove the case.

[afslondon]

I suspect it's blocked drains causing a water build up. No one would have untanked water as ballast. A dye test would prove the case.

 

 

 

Thank you; I really appreciate everyone's observations, which suggest that I have a problem ..and have had it for at least 18 months, which is about when I first observed the water. I will drain it at the weekend; try to fid the source of it and report back next week. Again, many thanks

A

[bespin]

thank god ive found this thread, having had our boat some months now i have been unable to find the acsess hole to the cabin bilge, when i have today i have found it full of water, eek. turns out that there is a leak somewhere probalby in the bathroom, that only occurs when we are aboad which is not to often as we turn the pump off so no or little water being leaked out. i have noticed the pump coming on in the night but just thought it was a boat thing. turns out not thanks to another thread on here. anyway now i have pumped out the bilge and im drying the floor in the bathroom, will have to find the leak at the weekend. what i want to know is how do you dry the bilge out fully and also will the wood that as been wet start to rot, is there any long term damage to the bilge having water in it for a number of months. now i have found the hole this will not be happening again for months at a time.

[Guest]

thank god ive found this thread, having had our boat some months now i have been unable to find the acsess hole to the cabin bilge, when i have today i have found it full of water, eek. turns out that there is a leak somewhere probalby in the bathroom, that only occurs when we are aboad which is not to often as we turn the pump off so no or little water being leaked out. i have noticed the pump coming on in the night but just thought it was a boat thing. turns out not thanks to another thread on here. anyway now i have pumped out the bilge and im drying the floor in the bathroom, will have to find the leak at the weekend. what i want to know is how do you dry the bilge out fully and also will the wood that as been wet start to rot, is there any long term damage to the bilge having water in it for a number of months. now i have found the hole this will not be happening again for months at a time.

Exactly the same problem with ours last summer. It was the tiniest leak under the kitchen sink from the cold tap piping, but over the three months we were aboard it managed to fill the bilges. I took all the bricks out that I could and vented the bilges for days with a twelve volt cold air fan and a duct fashioned from a cardboard box. Worked a treat. Ithink it would take a long time to start rot down there.

[bespin]

thanks catweasel, will checking all the pipe along the boat but quite sure its the bathroom which is a pain to get to, then will be building somesort of fan type thing to try and dry it out hoping it will work

[BeckyJC]

thanks catweasel, will checking all the pipe along the boat but quite sure its the bathroom which is a pain to get to, then will be building somesort of fan type thing to try and dry it out hoping it will work

If you have the means to power it, a wet and dry Vax type vacuum cleaner is good for sucking the water out, especially if it's hard to get to.

 

Hope this helps,

Becky

[bespin]

thanks becky, we got a drill pump that pumped the water out really well though i now need to get the last little bits. we had a little 12v thingy but it could not take it and packed in

[afslondon]

thanks becky, we got a drill pump that pumped the water out really well though i now need to get the last little bits. we had a little 12v thingy but it could not take it and packed in

 

 

 

 

Well I have pumped out most of my water too...hopefully will complete the job tomorrow. There was about 7 inches there, and it took several hours to get it down to about 1.5. What slowed it up was that at one stage it was refilling almost as fast as it was pumping out! But that, foruitously led me to the source of the problem; the water pump. Clearly on the last occasion when I checked the filter I had not screwed it back on 100% securely and whenever the pump was on "on" mode it was spewing water around. There is going to be a fair amount of damp to deal with but its in areas which are reasonly open and accessible, but hopefully it will not cause a major problem

Again, many thanks to all correspondents

Alan

[Laurence Hogg]

I am embarassed to ask such a naive question, but I wonder if colleagues can help me with a puzzle?

I have quite an old boat (of unknown provenance)...made in c.1970. Its ballast seems to consist of a large water tank along much of the length of the vessel. How is that level of water maintained at a proper level?

See; I told you it was naive !!!!

A

 

Hi,

Ernest Thomas at his base at Calf Heath had several trip boats which were trimmed by water ballast tanks, they were sold on after the fold up, also it was common practice on Grand Union Canal carrying Co boats to ballast the stern down with water when unladen, then use the bilge pump to re trim. The sea cocks fitted had a three way action which allowed water to be drawn from the outside, the bilge or directed into the bilge. My old motor "Neptune" had one fitted which I used during ownership.

[Tam & Di]

Hi,

Ernest Thomas at his base at Calf Heath had several trip boats which were trimmed by water ballast tanks, they were sold on after the fold up, also it was common practice on Grand Union Canal carrying Co boats to ballast the stern down with water when unladen, then use the bilge pump to re trim. The sea cocks fitted had a three way action which allowed water to be drawn from the outside, the bilge or directed into the bilge. My old motor "Neptune" had one fitted which I used during ownership.

 

We bought a small Trent barge which we used for carriage of grain on the Thames that also used water ballast tanks. the pump was fitted with 2-way divertor valves on the input and the output. The input options were from the canal/river or from the ballast tank, and the output options were to the ballast tank or overside. This meant the same pump could be used to take ballast on and to empty it, by selection of "from the river to the tank", or "from the tank to overside". We've used the same set-up on our barge in France that we use for barge handling training, but rather than for ballast we use it to empty the loo into a holding tank, and pump the holding tank via an extension hose into a quayside manhole. Pump-out facilities are virtually non-existant here, so some user-operated system is the only alternative to pumping straight out overside. Also by using Henderson Mk 5 manual and electric pump in-line we can carry the operation out by hand or with power.

Edited February 28, 2009 by Tam & Di

[bargemast]

We bought a small Trent barge which we used for carriage of grain on the Thames that also used water ballast tanks. the pump was fitted with 2-way divertor valves on the input and the output. The input options were from the canal/river or from the ballast tank, and the output options were to the ballast tank or overside. This meant the same pump could be used to take ballast on and to empty it, by selection of "from the river to the tank", or "from the tank to overside".

 

I used to ballast my 38m with water in the back part of the hold (which is common practice) to enable me to get under the bridges without having to dismantel the wheelhouse, and I had a similar set up with de 2 way valves, and used the ballast water to cool the engine at the same time, but the hold was for cargo and not fitted-out to live in.