Starting a 25hp Seffle

[AMModels]

Our son, Tim Hutchinson, is a children's book illustrator. This is Sam the Narrowboatman attempting to start a Seffle. You'll note that Sam has adapted his blowlamp to run on gas. Also he finds it easier if he has help from a second pair of hands/paws to squirt diesel into the engine as the flywheel is being kicked over.

 

Oh wow what a fantastic pic, is the book available to buy yet?

[BuckbyLocks]

Our son, Tim Hutchinson, is a children's book illustrator. This is Sam the Narrowboatman attempting to start a Seffle. You'll note that Sam has adapted his blowlamp to run on gas. Also he finds it easier if he has help from a second pair of hands/paws to squirt diesel into the engine as the flywheel is being kicked over.

Super drawing, which raises an interesting point. Do you kick away from or towards yourself? Ike Argent and John Jinks always kicked towards them selves, (but Ike broke his ankle twice!) I always kicked away, but usually ended up with the Bolinder running in reverse. What is the name of the book please? I would like to get one for my Grandchildren.

[johnthebridge]

I came across a boat powered by a Seffle on, I think, the Coventry canal a few years ago. It wsas not an ex-working boat, much shorter (40 feet? 45 feet?) and black or very dark in colour, and was travelling along with a couple of other vintage-engined boats. Sorry that's a bit vague! Its exhaust emitted a dry barking sound, one bark at a time so maybe it was a single-cylinder.

That would almost certainly be the boat I mentioned above. I bet the other boats were Roger Hatchard's "Lead-us", and Roy Beckett's "Bekdale H". All around 40'.

[Derek R.]

Our son, Tim Hutchinson, is a children's book illustrator. This is Sam the Narrowboatman attempting to start a Seffle. You'll note that Sam has adapted his blowlamp to run on gas. Also he finds it easier if he has help from a second pair of hands/paws to squirt diesel into the engine as the flywheel is being kicked over.

 

Excellent! Almost Simpson like - do tell us the book title(s).

[johnthebridge]

Our son, Tim Hutchinson, is a children's book illustrator. This is Sam the Narrowboatman attempting to start a Seffle. You'll note that Sam has adapted his blowlamp to run on gas. Also he finds it easier if he has help from a second pair of hands/paws to squirt diesel into the engine as the flywheel is being kicked over.

Not sure I like the look in that cat's eyes. Looks like a troublemaker to me.

[koukouvagia]

Super drawing, which raises an interesting point. Do you kick away from or towards yourself? Ike Argent and John Jinks always kicked towards them selves, (but Ike broke his ankle twice!) I always kicked away, but usually ended up with the Bolinder running in reverse. What is the name of the book please? I would like to get one for my Grandchildren.

 

 

I always kicked away from me because that way I got more leverage. If I kicked towards me, like Sam appears to be doing, there was only a short distance before my foot hit the floorplate. If the floor had been lower I suppose I could have done it either way.

One thing I always made sure of was to keep the starter peg and spring well greased. If it didn’t retract then broken ankles ensued.

One modification I made to the Seffle was to connect a long brass lever to extend the diesel pump lever up where I stood. In this way I could simultaneously kick the flywheel and squirt fuel into the cylinder as the piston bounced back to TDC. If there are two people handy, as in the video, one person is kicking and the other squirting. If I kicked without squirting, the engine usually went backwards as you say. A bit of a palaver, but once the technique was mastered it usually started after a couple of kicks.

We’ll let you know when the book’s available. At the moment I think it’s one of many ongoing projects.

[koukouvagia]

Of course, there is another way of starting the Seffle and that's with the air start.

Are there any boats around with working air starts? I can't think of any, off hand.

 

 

[Timleech]

Of course, there is another way of starting the Seffle and that's with the air start.

Are there any boats around with working air starts? I can't think of any, off hand.

 

Plenty, but probably not many Narrow Boats

I believe one or two Narrow Boat Bolinders were fitted with air start.

The other way with a semidiesel is to bounce it by hand against alternate compressions, but height & lack of space tends to make that difficult in a NB engine room.

 

Like this:-

 

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=X9-5ttIJOc0

 

or this

 

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=te9bChZyOFs&...feature=related

 

 

 

There was an air start Crossley BW2 (4-stroke full diesel) in a NB near here some years ago, the owner took it out & fitted something a bit smaller.

 

Tim

Edited December 31, 2008 by Dhutch

[BuckbyLocks]

Of course, there is another way of starting the Seffle and that's with the air start.

Are there any boats around with working air starts? I can't think of any, off hand.

 

 

Can't speak for Full Length Narrowboats, but the W & B Tunnel Tug 'Worcester' and the Fenland Tug 'Aleida' at the Boat Museum both have air start. Worcester has the 30hp Bolinder and Aleida a Widdop. It was just about possible to start the Bolinder by kicking once it was good and hot, (like when it stalled) but as the air bottle could not hold pressure for a long period it used to take hours to get enough air in the bottle to have a couple of tries to start it. Aleida was much the same but the Widdop also had a 'cigarette' style insert as described earlier. It's like Blowlamps - the compressor gives more trouble than the actual engine! It clears the soot out of the exhaust system though.

[TimYoung]

All,

 

If anyone fancies a Seffle I have a rebuilt 8hp one in my shed. Dated 1962 it was supplied to Willow Wren at Brentford.

 

There is another one at Norbury on the Shroppie although that one is incomplete.

 

Tim

[David Schweizer]

I don't think Sweden was ever fitted with a Seffle - I think it was a Bolinder.

 

Paul H

You may well be correct, but I am sure I remember either Dennis Jewiss or Dennis Papworth saying that it was Seffle, but they could have been wrong. When I spoke to the current owner last year he did not challenge me when I referred to her originally having a Seffle.

 

But it was certainly a single cylinder with no gearbox, the engine had to be braked and run counter clockwise to reverse the boat, something which took a great deal of trial and error (and a lot of shouting!!) to perfect.

Edited December 31, 2008 by David Schweizer

[1-Cylinder Wonder]

Yes one of the Willlow Wren 4 is upstairs in the old mill building at Brinklow Boats and is for sale (£10K). We shouldn't foget there are some smaller Seffles around as well - Hugh McKnight's Parry II had one and there is one for sale at Norbury Wharf (£8K).

 

I don't think Sweden was ever fitted with a Seffle - I think it was a Bolinder. The boat Athy is thinking of is I suspect the tug Finch fitted with a semi-diesel Petter (which was once in The King.) Great though these engines are they tend not to stay in a particular boat for long.

 

Paul H

You are correct Sweden was fitted with a Bolinder. The Anderton Canal Carrying Co Boats had a rather nice system of names - Oslo and Sweden both had Bolinder's - Places where they come from. Somerset and Dorset both had Petter's - their factory was in Yeovil - home county and its neighbour!. The Dorset still has the original Petter fitted.

 

The Petter you refer to in Finch was the engine originally installed in the Somerset. Petter S type 12/14hp No. 379824. It was never installed in the King that was another Petter S. I can't remember which one. I had the Petter S installed into Finch. When we pulled it apart it had a large crack running across the crown of the piston which we think brought an end to it's working life. Other than that it was in very good condition. Once that was repaired it was very well behaved. Never gave any problems starting. I am suprised that Jim found it took longer to start the Seffle in winter than summer. I found it was 10-15 mins all year round. Thew oil was a bit thicker in the cold so you had to pull a bit harder on the flywheel but it always went. If you left the lamp on too long it would kill the engine as it burnt the fuel before it could fire under compression.

 

If anybody wants a hot-bulb I have a a 9hp Kromhout in my garage looking for a good home £3k ono. Nice little engine.

 

John

[billh]

Of course, there is another way of starting the Seffle and that's with the air start.

Are there any boats around with working air starts? I can't think of any, off hand.

 

 

I believe Spey ( Clayton boat) is now fitted with air starting apparatus- something to do with the advancing years of the owners(allegedly). I do remember trying to start Spey's Bolinder years ago- 3 squirts of the hand primer, kick it , doesn't start, repeated a few times without success. 10 squirts, kick, loud explosion ,exhaust splitter goes into orbit, engine revs pick up , everyone runs for cover behind a wall, engine approaches bursting speed (seems like 10,000rpm), governor cuts in and everything's fine, off we go!

Bill

[XAlan W]

Additionally, I'm intrigued how many Seffle's are in narrowboats.

 

What became of your one, please ?

 

The only one I'm very aware of is the one in Severn, (usually found just along the summit).

 

I understood they were somewhat of a rarity, or is that wrong, please ?

 

Alan

 

When I aquired the SEFFLE for LILY in 1964 I was told by the late Dennis Clarke that Willow Wren bought 5 of the 25hp models 4 were fitted in boats, but before the last one could be fitted, one that was in a boat suffered a frost crack to the cylinder so this was changed for the 5th engine The engine I had was the damaged one it was repaired with a process that a friend of mine was the U.K agent for at the time,some form of fancy cast iron welding[as far as I know still o.k.]But Jem could tell you more.as this is the engine that came out of LILY. Regarding starting, that engine was fitted with a 12volt Glow plug fitted in the place where the paper lighter went.+it was air/ compression start, charge up the starter bottle by leaking off some compression whilst engine was running to charge up a holding tank the size of a oxy/acetalene cylinder, to approx 15 bar. To start turn flywheel to line up marks [denote just past T.D.C.] set throttle to about 1/4 speed, just crack open oil rod on injector, 6 pumps on fuel pump, turn on glow plug.[there was a mounting bracket fitted to the front of the cylinder to which the dynamo was fixed the belt running around the outside of the flywheel to obtain enough speed to enable the dynamo to charge. Max engine revs =600rpm. On this bracket was the glow plug switch with 2 ignition type lights 1 green 1 red.Turn on =red in approx 11/2 mins on came green light denoting glow plug was up to temp. ie modern diesel heater plugs light going out. 1more shot on fuel pump, If engine was up to temp flywheel used to rock to & fro Undo cock on holding tank release but hold in start lever on cyl head sharp pull&push on start lever & 90 times out of 100 it started. If it didn`t go over TDC & rocked back & forth with careful timing of shots on the fuel pump you could increase the rock until it went over TDC. total time to start usually under 2 mins from start to running

 

Additionally, I'm intrigued how many Seffle's are in narrowboats.

 

What became of your one, please ?

 

The only one I'm very aware of is the one in Severn, (usually found just along the summit).

 

I understood they were somewhat of a rarity, or is that wrong, please ?

 

Alan

 

When I aquired the SEFFLE for LILY in 1964 I was told by the late Dennis Clarke that Willow Wren bought 5 of the 25hp models 4 were fitted in boats, but before the last one could be fitted, one that was in a boat suffered a frost crack to the cylinder so this was changed for the 5th engine The engine I had was the damaged one it was repaired with a process that a friend of mine was the U.K agent for at the time,some form of fancy cast iron welding[as far as I know still o.k.]But Jem could tell you more.as this is the engine that came out of LILY. Regarding starting, that engine was fitted with a 12volt Glow plug fitted in the place where the paper lighter went.+it was air/ compression start, charge up the starter bottle by leaking off some compression whilst engine was running to charge up a holding tank the size of a oxy/acetalene cylinder, to approx 15 bar. To start turn flywheel to line up marks [denote just past T.D.C.] set throttle to about 1/4 speed, just crack open oil rod on injector, 6 pumps on fuel pump, turn on glow plug.[there was a mounting bracket fitted to the front of the cylinder to which the dynamo was fixed the belt running around the outside of the flywheel to obtain enough speed to enable the dynamo to charge. Max engine revs =600rpm. On this bracket was the glow plug switch with 2 ignition type lights 1 green 1 red.Turn on =red in approx 11/2 mins on came green light denoting glow plug was up to temp. ie modern diesel heater plugs light going out. 1more shot on fuel pump, If engine was up to temp flywheel used to rock to & fro Undo cock on holding tank release but hold in start lever on cyl head sharp pull&push on start lever & 90 times out of 100 it started. If it didn`t go over TDC & rocked back & forth with careful timing of shots on the fuel pump you could increase the rock until it went over TDC. total time to start usually under 2 mins from start to running