Time to buy new?

[greywolf]

With the reduction in VAT and possible the reduced price of steel will new builds get a lot more affordable or do you think profit margins will just expand to cover any savings?

[wonderdust]

Depends on whether the vat reduction is passed on to the customer!

[chris w]

Is 2.5% VAT reduction really going to swing anyone's decision to buy a boat or not? Get real.

 

Gordon Brown just wasted £12.5Bn, in reducing VAT, which will have no effect on spending whatsoever. Many retailers will not pass it on and, even if they do, it's only 25 pence in every £10. I can see it now "Price slashed to £9.75"

 

IMHO, brown should have abolished ALL Stamp Duty for a limited period, say 9 months, which would both be a real saving on a house purchase and encourage people to do something NOW due to the limited timescale. This would have cost the Treasury only £6Bn (half the VAT fiasco) and would not only kick-start the housing market but have a huge knock-on effect in the retail trade too with white goods, carpets, furniture etc etc being sold for house moves.

 

He would need to ensure that at the same time, banks were "persuaded" to increase mortgage lending... afterall it's our bl**dy money they have been given by the Government in the first place.

 

Chris

[bag 'o' bones]

Not so much cheaper boats but possibly boats with more standard features for your money, compared with this time last year.

[US Marines]

Is 2.5% VAT reduction really going to swing anyone's decision to buy a boat or not? Get real.

 

Gordon Brown just wasted £12.5Bn, in reducing VAT, which will have no effect on spending whatsoever. Many retailers will not pass it on and, even if they do, it's only 25 pence in every £10. I can see it now "Price slashed to £9.75"

Its actually only about 21p less (assuming the £10 original price included VAT), so it will be prices slashed to £9.79 !

Edited November 29, 2008 by US Marines

[david and julie]

The VAT reduction will be passed on to the customer with new boats because its listed separately on the invoice, unlike retail sales which often include it in the price.

 

For many firms this apparent VAT saving is no such thing,their costs actually went up not down. because of the duty changes on fuel and costs associated with changing tills, stationary, price lists etc. It was a mad, but typical, idea to mess with VAT pure smoke and mirrors.

 

I doubt the price of steel will effect new boat prices, most imported materials have gone up because of the weak pound. You may be able get a boat cheaper through negotiation because of builder having no work coming in, the downside of that being that you have to hope the builder lasts long enough to complete it.

 

Personally. I think its a good time to buy late used rather than new, but if you do want new, stick with a reputable firm and get a proper payment schedule so you know whats yours.

[NB Alnwick]

He would need to ensure that at the same time, banks were "persuaded" to increase mortgage lending... afterall it's our bl**dy money they have been given by the Government in the first place.

 

At the end of the day, I don't think all the blame can be placed with the government - the banks, like many other businesses have simply become too greedy and some may need more than a little persuasion before they condescend to 'help' ordinary folk.

 

As an example I received notification on Friday from one of my credit card providers that they are increasing the interest rate from its present 14.9% to 28.6% - there is a modest balance on the card which I will now pay off (and, most likely, I will close the account) before they have the opportunity to sting me at the new and thoroughly obscene interest rate. However, what happens to those who, having been persuaded to incur debts on their credit cards, now find themselves having to pay twice as much interest and do not have the means to repay them quickly? For those people, I suspect that the 2.5% change in the VAT rate, or even a suspension of stamp duty, will be of little comfort.

[chris w]

However, what happens to those who, having been persuaded to incur debts on their credit cards, now find themselves having to pay twice as much interest and do not have the means to repay them quickly? For those people, I suspect that the 2.5% change in the VAT rate, or even a suspension of stamp duty, will be of little comfort.

Well there are always stupid people who live way beyond their means and expect us to bail them out when it all ends in tears. That's how this mess started in the first place with Sub-Prime mortgages. You hear people saying "we didn't realise how much we would have to pay back". Well they should have bl**dy well known, why should we now bail them out? Pathetic.

 

Chris

[johnthebridge]

Is 2.5% VAT reduction really going to swing anyone's decision to buy a boat or not? Get real.

 

Gordon Brown just wasted £12.5Bn, in reducing VAT, which will have no effect on spending whatsoever. Many retailers will not pass it on and, even if they do, it's only 25 pence in every £10. I can see it now "Price slashed to £9.75"

 

IMHO, brown should have abolished ALL Stamp Duty for a limited period, say 9 months, which would both be a real saving on a house purchase and encourage people to do something NOW due to the limited timescale. This would have cost the Treasury only £6Bn (half the VAT fiasco) and would not only kick-start the housing market but have a huge knock-on effect in the retail trade too with white goods, carpets, furniture etc etc being sold for house moves.

 

He would need to ensure that at the same time, banks were "persuaded" to increase mortgage lending... afterall it's our bl**dy money they have been given by the Government in the first place.

 

Chris

Chris-I agree with you about the VAT fiasco, but I think it's going to take more than a reduction in Stamp Duty to get the housing market going again. I reckon potential buyers are being held back by, 1) Fear of prices continuing to slide. 2) Fear of what their payments might be in a year or two. 3) Fear of unemployment. 4) Inability to raise the increased deposits that are now required. I mean, would YOU consider the purchase of a house at the moment, given one or more of the above? I certainly wouldn't.

[OptedOut]

As some clue'd up Yank said, "Every asset in the world is being re-assessed for value", (or something similar).

I think in two years time boats will be cheaper and/or there will be a smaller boat building/service sector.

Just a thought.

[Hairy-Neil]

Depends on whether the vat reduction is passed on to the customer!

 

Come on now, do you really think shops are going to spend the weekend lowering the price on every shelf in every store across the country? Get real.

 

Come monday they will adjust the till so it shows 15% VAT and carry on as normal, thank you very much!

[greywolf]

the weak pound in some ways helps industry in Britain because foreign suppliers will be that much more expensive, unless they cut there prices to compete or maintain sales at any cost.If Britain etc stops buying stuff china and India have a huge problem. Apple computers have had a one day sale of all there products across the range,it is the first time i can rember that happening and that despite the pound dollar exchange rate turning against the pound.

[NB Alnwick]

Well there are always stupid people who live way beyond their means and expect us to bail them out when it all ends in tears. That's how this mess started in the first place with Sub-Prime mortgages. You hear people saying "we didn't realise how much we would have to pay back". Well they should have bl**dy well known, why should we now bail them out? Pathetic.

 

Chris

 

One of the elements that distinguishes civilised society from the jungle is that those who are civilised look to help those who are weaker or disadvantaged. Are you advocating that we should adopt the law of the jungle and survival of the fittest? :lol:

[greywolf]

Come on now, do you really think shops are going to spend the weekend lowering the price on every shelf in every store across the country? Get real.

 

Come monday they will adjust the till so it shows 15% VAT and carry on as normal, thank you very much!

where i worked there was a cunning discount button that you could use :lol:

[wonderdust]

Come on now, do you really think shops are going to spend the weekend lowering the price on every shelf in every store across the country? Get real.

 

Come monday they will adjust the till so it shows 15% VAT and carry on as normal, thank you very much!

 

Excuse me! I never said the shops are going to spend the weekend lowering the price on every shelf in every store across the country.

 

I said if they pass the reduction on!

 

They do not have to, thats real!

 

No, Thank You

Edited November 29, 2008 by wonderdust

[greywolf]

Well there are always stupid people who live way beyond their means and expect us to bail them out when it all ends in tears. That's how this mess started in the first place with Sub-Prime mortgages. You hear people saying "we didn't realise how much we would have to pay back". Well they should have bl**dy well known, why should we now bail them out? Pathetic.

 

Chris

well perhaps if we had all lived according to there means profit in this country would have been lower so more unemployment and we are back to the present situation.I have savings fortunately, unfortunately the return on the savings are practically zero so i am better off spending it before tax and inflation eat it away. The bank need to start sensible lending and to get rid of most of there senior managers who got the country into this mess by there lack of control of the business they were being payed very well to run. The banks offering people loans had all the information about the persons income and yet proceeded to lend the money so it is mute point who is to blame.Greed perhaps?

Edited November 29, 2008 by greywolf

[chris w]

One of the elements that distinguishes civilised society from the jungle is that those who are civilised look to help those who are weaker or disadvantaged. Are you advocating that we should adopt the law of the jungle and survival of the fittest? :lol:

It's not black and white but there is a limit of stupidity which should not be rewarded with hand-outs.

 

Chris

[1066]

One of the elements that distinguishes civilised society from the jungle is that those who are civilised look to help those who are weaker or disadvantaged. Are you advocating that we should adopt the law of the jungle and survival of the fittest? :lol:

 

The old adage about " Give me the strength to change what I can, the serenity to accept what I can't, and the wisdom to know the difference" comes to mind.

 

Some folks are just beyond help.

[OptedOut]

One of the elements that distinguishes civilised society from the jungle is that those who are civilised look to help those who are weaker or disadvantaged. Are you advocating that we should adopt the law of the jungle and survival of the fittest? :lol:

 

The "Law of the jungle" works for China, India etc, that's why they continually out perform the UK.

I witnessed a bit of this moral decay when I was an apprentice with the extinction of the UK motorcycle industry, been downhill ever since.

 

It's still a dog eat dog world.

Edited November 29, 2008 by OptedOut

[Dominic M]

Depends on whether the vat reduction is passed on to the customer!

 

It could be argued that whether or not the VAT reduction is passed on to the customer nevertheless >£12bn will enter the economy.

 

 

Well there are always stupid people who live way beyond their means and expect us to bail them out when it all ends in tears. That's how this mess started in the first place with Sub-Prime mortgages. You hear people saying "we didn't realise how much we would have to pay back". Well they should have bl**dy well known, why should we now bail them out? Pathetic.

 

Chris

But had there been a greater element of responsibility by the lenders in assessing the borrowers ability to repay, the credit crunch would not have happened, do you not think? Certainly trying to obtain a mortgage 25 years ago attracted a far higher degree of scrutiny than it has in recent times.

 

It could be argued that the banks should just have been allowed to collapse. But that was a view taken in the USA after the 1929 crash, and the result of that "survival of the fittest" policy created a global depression that no one would ever wish to live through again.

[LEO]

Hi,

 

Chris W raises some very interesting and wise points, which I can relate to, having gone through the last recession in 1989 I can relate to his comments - (it's no fun having to deal with repo's for several years, you hear every excuse under the sun for non-payment of mortgages but people still consider that consumer expenditure must come first).

 

I would not buy a new boat at the moment, there are some brilliant buys secondhand.

 

I recall a long input form 'Pav' earlier in the year...............................

 

2.5% reduction in VAT - Wow! get real Gordon, have you considered interest rates for savers.

 

Leo.

[david and julie]

It's not black and white but there is a limit of stupidity which should not be rewarded with hand-outs.

Chris

I agree.

It's strange though that when it goes pearshaped for joe public who overstretched himself to get or keep a roof over his head he was somehow foolish. Whereas banking, a profession which you would think would require a degree of intelligence, does exactly the same out of pure greed, yet they do get our money.

 

We need to make up our minds, If we're not going to help the first we shouldn't help the second either.

 

The Gov keep saying the banks have reneged on there agreement in respect to lending to small business. If that is true, then the Gov should now do the same and make funds available via the banks they control, leave the others banks to sort themselves out and if they go under tough.

[Dominic M]

The Gov keep saying the banks have reneged on there agreement in respect to lending to small business. If that is true, then the Gov should now do the same and make funds available via the banks they control, leave the others banks to sort themselves out and if they go under tough.

I think that is their intention - but time will tell. Certainly they have been critical of banks' reluctance to lend over the past few weeks. Whether that translates into action we will have to wait and see.

Edited November 29, 2008 by Dominic M

[Gibbo]

Well I've passed on the VAT reduction to customers because it's the right thing to do.

 

But on a piece of kit costing £150.00 how on earth is the customer saving £3.19 going to make the blindest bit of difference? He either wants one or he doesn't. £3.19 isn't going to sway him one way or the other.

 

The VAT reduction looks like a really stupid idea to me. It will ocst the country a fortune, and won't make any difference to sales.

 

Just my two penn'orth.

 

Gibbo

[david and julie]

I think that is their intention - but time will tell.

Don't you find it ridiculous that the Gov seems to have given the banks this money by way of a gentlemans agreement. You'd have thought they would have had T&C's in writing, especially given the ammount involved.

 

We would never survive in our businesses acting like this.