Is it just me

[carlt]

An articulated lorry is the only place I can think of where you could learn driving skills like that!

Series 2a land rover, before you replace the rims with series 3 ones.

[Sir Nibble]

Another favourite is the vast army of retired articulated lorry drivers now driving small cars who just cant get out of the habit of swinging left before turning right, and vice versa! An articulated lorry is the only place I can think of where you could learn driving skills like that!

Ah the "battleship sweep" my other favourite is getting stuck behind someone who will not overtake a cyclist until they have room to cross to the opposite lane, mount the pavement, cross the fields and generally give the bike not so much "space" as "universe". And how about those who stop at a roundabout when nothing is coming and jammed on "give way to the right" will wait in some kind of mental seizure until a car barely in view is close enough to give way to.

[jeb]

"What do you mean by that ?"

 

One of my favourites - two lanes onto a roundabout, two lanes off. What makes some drivers think the lane system is momentarily abandoned into a porridge-like free for all as you traverse the roundabout. Taking the racing line, they change lane twice without ever knowing they have done it. The bliss of oblivion!

 

Another favourite is the vast army of retired articulated lorry drivers now driving small cars who just cant get out of the habit of swinging left before turning right, and vice versa! An articulated lorry is the only place I can think of where you could learn driving skills like that!

 

I said I was going to leave it but I see where your coming from now. Well it just beggars belief at times ,but dont you seem to get a sense they are going to do that and take the necessary action to avoid it ? That is obviously experience kicking in.

[Nine of Hearts]

And how about those who stop at a roundabout when nothing is coming and jammed on "give way to the right" will wait in some kind of mental seizure until a car barely in view is close enough to give way to.

 

I actually got pulled over by a young copper and was a given a "talking to" for not doing that. I really wanted to say "so, when a white van re-designs the rear of my car for stopping without reason, will you fork out for the damages and my whiplash?", but what I actually said was, "Yes, sir, no sir, three bags full sir" etc. It's best to be polite in these situations.

[Yoda]

Am I on the right forum?

[wonderdust]

Soon it will be the Fog Light scenario and how about the use or should i say non-use of indicators!

[Sir Nibble]

I actually got pulled over by a young copper and was a given a "talking to" for not doing that. I really wanted to say "so, when a white van re-designs the rear of my car for stopping without reason, will you fork out for the damages and my whiplash?", but what I actually said was, "Yes, sir, no sir, three bags full sir" etc. It's best to be polite in these situations.

There are loads of rules for who gives way to who, but in my view the decision only needs to be taken when there is a prospect of two road users being in competition for the same bit of road space. If you will be long gone before the other vehicle arrives then there is no "way" to give. I understand the point about the copper mind, a copper is as capable as anyone else of being a dickhead with the proviso that disagreeing with him is "contempt of cop" and could lose you your licence.

[David Schweizer]

Having Managed PCV class 2 driver training and assesment for the Local Authority in the past, I seriously believe that there is a strong case for further training and examination of drivers after a few years experience. There should also be compulsory eyesight tests for drivers every five years.

 

We found that the eyesight of around 20% of our students was below the minimum standard required for a private car driving licence. The driving ability of about 25% was poorer than the standard required for a standard Car driving test, and over 30% seriously failed the Highway Code knowledge tests. The only people who consistently passsed all aspects of the test were HGV drivers, and Police Officers who did not already hold an Police advanced Driver licence.

 

And remember these were all people who thought that they were good enough to drive a 17 seater mini bus full of young people!

Edited November 14, 2008 by David Schweizer

[Machpoint005]

I don't think speed is the culprit. A very competent driver can travel at relatively high speeds without being dangerous.

Speed in the wrong place is the culprit. 'Wrong place' includes, in my opinion anywhere subject to a 30mph speed limit.

'Wrong place' also includes anywhere within 100m of a BMW, especially the driving seat.

[wonderdust]

Speed in the wrong place is the culprit. 'Wrong place' includes, in my opinion anywhere subject to a 30mph speed limit.

 

Also weather and road conditions!

[Proper Job]

Am I on the right forum?

I have to admit - I thought I had slipped through a worm hole and come out into the driving for beginners forum

[saltysplash]

I have to admit - I thought I had slipped through a worm hole and come out into the driving for beginners forum

 

 

Sorry folks, didnt intend to start a Driving forum

[NB Alnwick]

I dont think speed is the culprit. A very competent driver can travel at relatively high speeds without being dangerous. Good examples are the properly trained police and ambulance drivers.

 

This is an often aired misconception - even properly trained police and ambulance drivers have accidents and the facts are that the likelihood of such an accident causing serious injury or death is disproportionately heightened as the speeds involved increase. If everyone drove within the relevant legal speed limits the incidence of serious injury and death from road accidents would be significantly reduced.

[denboy]

On a related note, Steve Cropper who used to hang round the Leicestershire area, is a legend for getting &*&^% off N.B %&^&^*%& "$%&£( to get a BSS, insurance, and a licence, using his Juju.

 

The towpath telegraph tells me he's left BW, a loss.

No he`s still around at fradley now

[carlt]

No he`s still around at fradley now

Does that mean Griffiths has moved on?

[US Marines]

Coz of my job, I could add a huge amount here - but, as has been said above, its a canal forum - so I'll keep it very short.

 

 

2 identical cars travelling in the same direction on the motorway, one at 70 mph, one at 90 mph. Both are subject to emergency braking at the same point along the carriageway - at the point along the carriageway where the 70 mph vehicle has just stopped, how fast is the 90 mph vehicle still travelling ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Approx. 56 mph (assuming typical deceleration rate for a dry road surface).

 

Energy is proportional to the square of speed.

[wonderdust]

Is this maths related or true life!

[Timleech]

Is this maths related or true life!

 

Both, surely?

 

Tim

[US Marines]

Is this maths related or true life!

eh ?

 

Its a non-positional statement (i.e. it doesn't take sides in the 'argument' about speed v. safety) and it is true to life, in that it uses a typical maximum deceleration rate for the cars that are on our roads today.

 

Powerful modern motorcycles* can decelerate much quicker than this but trucks have lower deceleration rates.

 

I included it because people don't often realise the effects of 'a few more miles per hour' until they need to do something other than continuing in a straight line at a constant speed.

 

The reason that I don't really want to get drawn too much into a detailed discussion here is that the speed/safety relationship is VERY complicated and it would take even more pages than the unStable Bar to thrash it all out !

 

*Another motorcycle 'factoid' - Lots of people know that modern motorcycles are fast. However, my experience is that many non-bikers don't realise quite how fast. Since the late 1980s, powerful road going motorcycles have been able to accelerate their riders from 0-60 mph faster than they would if they fell off a building, i.e they can pull more than a 'g' in acceleration. Many modern motorcycles can also pull a 'g' when decelerating on a dry road surface.

Edited November 15, 2008 by US Marines

[Timleech]

Whilst not wishing to disagree with any of the above, advances such as ABS mean that modern cars can stop far more quickly. It is also the case that motorways, our fastest roads, are also statistically our safest roads. Accidents are not caused by speed, they are caused by human error and speed gives less time to sort it out before metal meets metal. I always say that you don't need to have an accident, you can share someone elses!

 

Not always true with ABS. It can lead to slower stopping, but the stopping should be more controlled.

 

I agree with the last bit, I was told to drive on the assumption that everyone else on the road might be an idiot. Those who feel they can drive safely at higher speeds than ordinary mortals don't allow for that.

 

Tim

[wonderdust]

eh ?

 

Its a non-positional statement (i.e. it doesn't take sides in the 'argument' about speed v. safety) and it is true to life, in that it uses a typical maximum deceleration rate for the cars that are on our roads today.

 

You have forgotton the human factor and so is not true in real life!

[US Marines]

Not always true with ABS. It can lead to slower stopping, but the stopping should be more controlled.

 

I agree with the last bit, I was told to drive on the assumption that everyone else on the road might be an idiot. Those who feel they can drive safely at higher speeds than ordinary mortals don't allow for that.

 

Tim

Again, this is complicated. The maximum braking force is achieved just before wheel 'lock-up', and ABS systems are designed to keep the wheel in this 'just before lock-up' state so that they take advantage of this fact, as well as allowing steering to take place - which is the other advantage of keeping the wheels rolling.

 

ABS systems are very useful 'secondary' safety devices - as are seat belts etc. 'Secondary Safety Systems' are those that help you get out of a situation or reduce the consequences of it, once such a situation has occurred.

 

'Primary Safety Systems' help you to not get in that situation in the first place. Although technology can now also help with this, the best primary safety system is the driver.

 

However, as I had to tell the Court in a case the other day, one driver can do everything reasonably practicable to drive 'defensively' but if the other driver isn't also doing this, then collisions can still occur. For example, 'always drive at a speed that enables you to stop in the distance you can see' is excellent advice but, when you're going around a tight bend on a narrow road, if the guy coming the other way is not also following this advice, he will need to use some of 'your' distance in order for him to stop.

Edited November 15, 2008 by US Marines

[US Marines]

You have forgotton the human factor and so is not true in real life!

Errrr...far from it.

 

I merely haven't referred to the human factor - I've just talked about the situation once the brakes have been applied.

 

There is a lot of research on perception/reaction times - indeed, I have undertaken some of this research. Reaction time varies greatly from one individual to another and from situation to situation.

 

Typically though, drivers will react to most road situations in approx. 0.75 to 2 seconds, i.e. it will take them this long to 'perceive' something and then to 'react' to it by moving and pressing their foot on the brake pedal.

 

Most collision investigators use a range of betwwen 1.0 and 1.5 seconds for most investigations.

 

At 70 mph, a vehicle will travel between approx. 31 and 47 metres in this period.

 

At 90 mph, a vehicle will travel between approx. 40 and 60 metres in this period.

 

These distances need to be added to the braking distances in order to calculate a total stopping distance.

Edited November 15, 2008 by US Marines

[curzons246]

On a related note, Steve Cropper who used to hang round the Leicestershire area, is a legend for getting &*&^% off N.B %&^&^*%& "$%&£( to get a BSS, insurance, and a licence, using his Juju.

 

The towpath telegraph tells me he's left BW, a loss.

 

Fuzzy i dont know why you thought well of Steve Cropper but - I spent winter 2007/8 on a winter mooring at Trent lock and all winter I had to look at a boat with no mooring permit or licence in the winding hole. This boat was also moored outside Steve Croppers office. Two days after my mooring permit expired Steve wants to know when i'm going? In April i put my documents and payments in at Sawley Marina for my licence - two weeks after it expired at the end of may i still hadnt recieved it but i'd had a note left by Steve Cropper chasing me - i was miffed - and embarrassed - and i'd done all i could do to comply - as i said in the begining you must have had good experiences but i felt differently it seemed he was looking for easy targets and leaving the tough ones. - cheers Bill NB Indulgence.

[fuzzyduck]

i was miffed - and embarrassed - and i'd done all i could do to comply

 

I'd be most curious as to how he reacted when you pointed this out to him.