Joseph Hollway Valencia wharf oldbury - to be filled in!

[WillC]

The latest on the Valencia Wharf affair is that Holloways didn't get planning permission and, although it was required, Council think filling in a basin is a minor event that isn't worth pursuing. Council have, howver, told Holloways that they must request full permission if they plan on completly filling in the basin.

 

Here are summaries and links to the most recent exchanges via FoI - personally I think this is outrageous and worthy of escalation:

 

-- Valencia Wharf --

Sandwell Borough Council sent a response to Will Chapman (23 January 2009)

"Dear Mr Chapman, Thank you for this further email. To date, no

application for planning permission has been received and I also

understand that..."

 

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/vale...#incoming-14021

-- Valencia Wharf --

Will Chapman sent a follow up message to Sandwell Borough Council (23 January 2009)

"Thank you for your reply. It seems to me that the owner has been

let off the hook. The damage has already been done; a unique part

of our nationa..."

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/vale...#outgoing-11120

 

 

Cheers

 

Will Chapman

[The phenom]

Well that is bloody typical of Sandwell Council !! It looks like you can take things into your own hands as long as it's 'Minor' and you can do as you please.

What a let down.

[johnjo]

I don't actually know the site in question but bearing in mind how other councils view opening up the canals to town centres and all the benefits to the town that come along with these schemes it seems to me that the council have totally missed the point here. A canal basin with moorings for a dozen NB's already in their midst is a missed opportunity that perhaps the local Chamber Of Commerce may not be aware of either. In the present economic climate I would have thought that anything that may generate income to a town would be welcome with open arms. Perhaps a letter to them and other similar bodies may make a difference. Could someone with a deeper knowledge of the history, and benefits plus a way with words not put together a letter that perhaps we can all copy and send as individuals not only to the council but also any other bodies who may have some interest. An avalanche of mail may hopefully result in a correct outcome.

I'm very new to the canals and to see bits of its history disappearing for no apparent good reason is a shame, and those that do it should feel the shame and not be let off the hook as appears to be the case here.

We have lost too much of our hereitage to so called development, I can remember a time when, if taken to a town blindfolded and put in the middle of it and the blindfold removed you could tell where you were, now they all look the same.

Nostalgic and annoyed.

John

 

Keep this alive, if not, other so called developers will think they can do the same because it might appear that even the canal world don't care.

Edited January 24, 2009 by johnjo

[let me go boating]

This all seems really daft. A guy near us has just bought an old arm on the River Weaver where narrow boats used to be built years ago and he is going to have boats moored in it. Apparently that was going to be filled in until he came along.

 

I hope this other place will get saved.

[riverbargeman]

This all seems really daft. A guy near us has just bought an old arm on the River Weaver where narrow boats used to be built years ago and he is going to have boats moored in it. Apparently that was going to be filled in until he came along.

 

I hope this other place will get saved.

 

I think you are refering to the basin that was part of 'WJ Yarwoods' and yes it is going to be offered as a mooring with a lean towards boats that were built there or for historic boats generally.

[Derek R.]

I think you are refering to the basin that was part of 'WJ Yarwoods' and yes it is going to be offered as a mooring with a lean towards boats that were built there or for historic boats generally.

 

More on the Weaver and Yarwoods: http://tinyurl.com/aepbgc

[The phenom]

I think you are refering to the basin that was part of 'WJ Yarwoods' and yes it is going to be offered as a mooring with a lean towards boats that were built there or for historic boats generally.

 

Please check tonights Express & Star - Holloways have submitted an application to fill in the basin at Valencia Wharf. This is our chance to put in objections. Planning Application DC0950509

Edited February 12, 2009 by The phenom

[The phenom]

I don't actually know the site in question but bearing in mind how other councils view opening up the canals to town centres and all the benefits to the town that come along with these schemes it seems to me that the council have totally missed the point here. A canal basin with moorings for a dozen NB's already in their midst is a missed opportunity that perhaps the local Chamber Of Commerce may not be aware of either. In the present economic climate I would have thought that anything that may generate income to a town would be welcome with open arms. Perhaps a letter to them and other similar bodies may make a difference. Could someone with a deeper knowledge of the history, and benefits plus a way with words not put together a letter that perhaps we can all copy and send as individuals not only to the council but also any other bodies who may have some interest. An avalanche of mail may hopefully result in a correct outcome.

I'm very new to the canals and to see bits of its history disappearing for no apparent good reason is a shame, and those that do it should feel the shame and not be let off the hook as appears to be the case here.

We have lost too much of our hereitage to so called development, I can remember a time when, if taken to a town blindfolded and put in the middle of it and the blindfold removed you could tell where you were, now they all look the same.

Nostalgic and annoyed.

John

 

Keep this alive, if not, other so called developers will think they can do the same because it might appear that even the canal world don't care.

Please check tonights Express & Star - Holloways have submiited an application to fill in the basin at Valencia Wharf. This is our chance to put in objections. Planning Application DC0950509

 

 

 

The latest on the Valencia Wharf affair is that Holloways didn't get planning permission and, although it was required, Council think filling in a basin is a minor event that isn't worth pursuing. Council have, howver, told Holloways that they must request full permission if they plan on completly filling in the basin.

 

Here are summaries and links to the most recent exchanges via FoI - personally I think this is outrageous and worthy of escalation:

 

-- Valencia Wharf --

Sandwell Borough Council sent a response to Will Chapman (23 January 2009)

"Dear Mr Chapman, Thank you for this further email. To date, no

application for planning permission has been received and I also

understand that..."

 

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/vale...#incoming-14021

-- Valencia Wharf --

Will Chapman sent a follow up message to Sandwell Borough Council (23 January 2009)

"Thank you for your reply. It seems to me that the owner has been

let off the hook. The damage has already been done; a unique part

of our nationa..."

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/vale...#outgoing-11120

 

 

Cheers

 

Will Chapman

Please check tonights Express & Star - Holloways have submiited an application to fill in the basin at Valencia Wharf. This is our chance to put in objections. Planning Application DC0950509

 

 

 

Looks like they have applied for retrospective planning permission, if its granted they wont have a problem, however all planning applications have to be advertised and that's the time to send in objections, the planning dept will consider these but you have to have good reasons for objecting, loss of amenity to boaters or environmental are soft objections and if they still grant it the owners may have to tidy up the visible part of the remaining canal edge plant vegetation screens etc which is of course no help

When companies apply for permission they major on business aspects such as creating employment, necessary for business to develop etc and these are the kind of over riding reasons that the planners grant permission

Please check tonights Express & Star - Holloways have submiited an application to fill in the basin at Valencia Wharf. This is our chance to put in objections. Planning Application DC0950509

 

 

The situation developing at Valencia wharf is an odd one. Joseph Holloway have been in the freight business for a very long time, they operated a fleet of boats, maintained at their own dock on this site. It is odd that one of the last connected canal carriers wants to erase its history and destroy the link to its heritage. Their dock is shown in my film "Working boats 2" and is about to shown again in a new production. Thye repaired not only for themselves but for Thos Clayton and others. Eventually the Allen Bros took over and built some of the finest boats at the dock. Writing to Holloways is one way of making them aware of what they are doing, also it means they are unaware that a potential small marina holding approx 12 full length boats with access to a main town centre together with motorway access minutes away will be lost! Lost to park lorry's on!Also consider complaining to Sandwell council, re heritage loss and possible planning issues. One line comments here wont penetrate either holloway's or Sandwell council, direct action might do, here are the addresses:

 

Joseph Holloway Ltd

Valencia Wharf

Churchbridge, Oldbury, B69 2AP

0121 552 2146

 

Sandwell Council,

Council House,

Oldbury,

West Midlands

B69 3DE.

 

British Waterways are aware of the issue, Mike Youe is supportive of retention.

 

Please check tonights Express & Star - Holloways have submiited an application to fill in the basin at Valencia Wharf. This is our chance to put in objections. Planning Application DC0950509

 

 

I wonder if anyone can formulate a letter on this subject that can be sent to Holloways, Sandwell Council, the local press and the local councillors too? I have no experience of such matters but would gladly print off enough copies to each of the previous bodies. My grandfather worked for Holloways as a boatman for a while on a sub contract basis and I could add that to any basic letter formulated.

 

Please check tonights Express & Star - Holloways have submitted an application to fill in the basin at Valencia Wharf. This is our chance to put in objections. Planning Application DC0950509

Edited February 12, 2009 by The phenom

[The phenom]

Read elsewhere (BCN Canalscape) that Holloways are planning to fill in these two arms and use them as car parking, saw carlt had posted on it but cant find the thread again. Anyone know if they need planning permission to do this and whether BW have to be notified? Its a great shame IMO these are popular moorings and the area is a historic boatbuilding area as well as wharfage.

 

Please check yesterdays Express & Star - Holloways have submitted an application to fill in the basin at Valencia Wharf. This is our chance to put in objections. Planning Application DC0950509

 

 

This is a disgraceful act of vandalism. Everyone should contact The Environment Agency regarding the potential for illegal waste disposal and pollution (enquiries@environment-agency.gov.uk) , BW regarding the potential for contamination of their water (enquiries.hq@britishwaterways.co.uk), Sandwell Council regarding planning (contact@sandwell.gov.uk) and the local MP.

 

To find the MP's details click on this link http://findyourmp.parliament.uk/commons/l/ and type in the postcode B69 2AP. The MP is called Mr Adrian Bailey.

 

Mark

 

Please check yesterdays Express & Star - Holloways have submiited an application to fill in the basin at Valencia Wharf. This is our chance to put in objections. Planning Application DC0950509

 

 

"Bumped" ........ because I don't like things like this going quiet!

 

 

Please check yesterdays Express & Star - Holloways have submitted an application to fill in the basin at Valencia Wharf. This is our chance to put in objections. Planning Application DC0950509

Edited February 12, 2009 by The phenom

[Natalie Graham]

We have to check the Express and Star 9 times?

Edited February 12, 2009 by Natalie Graham

[The phenom]

We have to check the Express and Star 9 times?

 

Feel free to check 9 times if you like, I am new to the site and did not know that my message would repeat so many times. Some people !!

[Natalie Graham]

Feel free to check 9 times if you like, I am new to the site and did not know that my message would repeat so many times. Some people !!

 

 

Gave you another chance to bump the thread though didn't it?

 

 

For those of us who don't have access to 9 copies of the Express and Star the details of the application are online here

 

The closing date for consultations is February 23.

[Odana]

The link in Natalie's post above takes you to a page where you can submit your comments on the application direct with one click - you don't have to write in so it's really very easy.

 

Just composing something but thought I'd add extracts of relevant poilices from the Unitary Development Plan which governs land use decisions. http://sandwelludp.wisshost.net/text/text0.htm Apologies for length of cut and paste. The UDP says a lot about canals but is a bit gutless in my opinion. I don't know if the wharf is on any local list of historic sites but any comment could suggest that it be put on, or that full archaeological work is done before any infill. etc. Referring to policies the UDP which you think the application goes against is an additional strength in an objection

 

 

Sandwell Unitary Development Plan

Policy C4. - THE LOCAL LIST OF BUILDINGS AND STRUCTURES

In addition to statutorily protected sites, the Council will seek to retain and preserve other noteworthy buildings and structures which are a vital part of the local architecture and history and which contribute to the uniqueness of the locality. This will be achieved through a Local List of Buildings.

14.14 Although the Local List does not give any legal protection to buildings or features, it aims to give a degree of recognition to buildings of local, historical, architectural and townscape importance which have not been listed. The intention is to prevent unnecessary demolition and gratuitous and insensitive alteration. Anyone considering undertaking alteration to a property on the Local List should justify the proposals and consider how they can retain their quality and special features. Any new development or alteration must be sympathetic and demonstrate an architectural improvement. The Local List will be a material consideration when determining planning applications. The full Local List is available as an appendix to the UDP. It is anticipated that the Local List will be updated as more important buildings are identified.

14.15 The Local List will also assist with the identification of areas suitable for designation as Conservation Areas, where a collection of buildings of local interest has group value.

 

Policy C7. - CANALS

The Council will seek to protect the Borough's canal heritage, including canalside buildings and associated structures and areas around the canal network that are of special interest.

Where the opportunity exists, encouragement will be given to the use of canals as a feature to enhance the quality of development through appropriate layout and orientation.

The Council will assess all proposals for development adjacent to the canal network against the guidelines and criteria set out within the Development Control Policy DC4-Canals. In particular, the Council will seek to ensure that:

The original scale, style, materials and character of the canals is not prejudiced or eroded and that its buildings, structures and artefacts are retained;

The design, layout, boundary treatment and landscaping of canalside development takes full account of the opportunity created by its setting;

The nature conservation value of the canal network is protected.

Where appropriate, the enhancement of the canals and their settings will be secured through S106 Agreements.

14.20 The Borough has many miles of canal, which have enormous historic and heritage value as the arteries of the industrial revolution. A large number of canal structures are Listed Buildings and many other important buildings are located alongside or close to canals. There are some concentrations of such structures in specific areas of interest such as in the Galton Valley and Factory Locks Conservation Areas. However, the majority of listed canal structures are dispersed throughout the Borough, and are intermingled with other structures which are not listed, but which are an essential part of the canal character.

14.21 The canals have become underused since the decline in their economic importance, and canalside development has 'turned its back 'on the canals. The Council recognise the limited potential of the canals to transport goods and people and will encourage their use for this purpose where appropriate. As canals are a linear feature this trend can only be reversed gradually by the use of development control powers and a series of improvement and restoration works. The Council will also endeavour to encourage developers to recognise the importance of the canal network as an environmental asset to their proposals. In addition, the nature conservation value of the canals should not be underestimated. Over time, the canal network has naturally regenerated and now provides valuable habitats for both flora and fauna. The nature conservation value of these areas will be protected and enhanced where appropriate. The policies contained within the Nature Conservation Chapter should also be referred to.

14.22 Where areas of significant recreational use form part of the canal network, sensitive treatment will be necessary to ensure that the requirements of the user do not compromise the heritage value of the area. Therefore, these policies are essential if the heritage value of the canals is to be realised in the longer term as a unique linear environment.

 

Policy C9. - INDUSTRIAL ARCHAEOLOGY

The Council will define areas, buildings, structures and sites, which merit consideration as areas of potential industrial archaeological interest.

 

In considering proposals for development, the Council will have regard to the industrial or historical importance of the site or building, and will make positive recommendations for the recording, restoration, preservation, adaptation or demolition and rebuild elsewhere of the relevant features of the development.

14.24 The principal reasons for the rapid growth of the urban areas of the Borough were the mining and industrial activities of the 18th, 19th and 20th centuries. The area became one of national industrial importance. Although the legacy of dereliction, pollution and poor building should be removed where possible, it must be recognised that this also includes buildings, sites and artefacts of historical significance. Only part of this is buried; a majority remains above ground in existing buildings, plant and machinery and its artefacts may still be in use. Most of this heritage is unprotected by Scheduled Ancient Monument or Listed Building designation. Under existing criteria, much of this heritage is not recognised as being of sufficient national historic, archaeological or architectural importance to merit statutory protection.

14.25 Areas of potential archaeological significance will be identified by continual local monitoring and assessment of relevant information sources, including the Sandwell Historic Environment Record, where information is consolidated and recorded. Referral of applications for development will also disclose sites or areas where archaeology or conservation is necessary before redevelopment or demolition is permitted to take place

 

Policy C11. - ARCHAEOLOGY AND DEVELOPMENT PROPOSALS

In considering proposals for development, the Council will seek to ensure that archaeological sites of special regional or local importance are identified as being particularly worthy of preservation in situ. Other sites will be preserved wherever possible, but where it would be unreasonable to withhold planning permission for the development of such sites, provision will be made through agreements and conditions of planning permissions for an appropriate level of archaeological investigation and recording, prior to damage or destruction through development.

 

It is essential that archaeological sites and their settings are preserved and enhanced so as to fully exploit their archaeological, recreational and educational value, and, where appropriate, made attractive to visitors.

 

In Areas of Potential Archaeological Importance, the local planning authority will require archaeological information (derived, if necessary, from an archaeological evaluation), prior to the determination of planning applications. This information will be needed to assess the archaeological implications of the development proposals and to identify requirements for archaeological preservation or investigation.

 

The integration of the preservation of archaeological deposits with other land uses will be achieved by means of management agreements.

14.28 Areas of Potential Archaeological Importance will be identified by continual local monitoring and assessment of relevant information sources, including the Sandwell Historic Environment Record, where information is consolidated and recorded. Referral of applications for development will also disclose sites or areas where archaeology or conservation is necessary before redevelopment or demolition is permitted to take place.

14.29 Sixteen areas of Potential Archaeological Importance in the Borough have been identified and are shown on the UDP Proposals Map and listed in the Archaeology Proposals section. Each area fulfils one or more of the following criteria:

Ancient structures, either buildings or earth works, are visible or have been located by excavation, or objects have been found by chance or by deliberate search;

Early settlement or other activity is indicated by written documents or maps;

There has been little ground disturbance through earthmoving, mining or similar activities, so that archaeological features as yet unknown might be expected to be preserved.

14.30 The boundaries of these areas may be modified, and further areas may be identified, as more archaeological information becomes available. The Borough Archaeologist will be able to give up-to-date advice on the extent of the areas of archaeological importance. Prospective developers are encouraged to consult the Borough Archaeologist in advance of submitting planning applications in Areas of Potential Archaeological Importance.

14.31 Archaeological evaluation consists of excavated trenches, combined with non-destructive surveys, where appropriate. Archaeological investigation, prior to damage or destruction, would consist of archaeological excavation, or observation and recording of archaeological features exposed during development, as appropriate.

[Derek R.]

It does come a little difficult when one does not know the immediate area, or the current usage of the arm. My thoughts are inclined to look at what is being lost, but at the same time what might be gained.

 

Clearly from the canal point of view the arm might be, (and has in the past been) used to service and maintain boats, but in the course of having service vehicles entering the Holloway yard to access the boats, there would appear to be some conflict of use. Pictures available on 'Live Local' and 'Google Maps' show seven boats present within the arm, and three in the adjacent, but I do not know when these pictures were taken. Are they now moved elsewhere and the arm empty? Is there any intended development of a future boat repair docking facility a viable economic proposition? Because if not, then one can understand the other side of the viewpoint - that of Holloways Haulage.

 

The arm represents an area that could be otherwise used in the manoeuvering of their artics without conflict of use. However, in their application there is no intention of expanding their business, and as they have been operating as it is so far - where is their problem? Nor is there any recognition of them gaining the opinions of neighbours in the immediate vicinity about their intentions. One does wonder why not. An area such as this would indeed be more attractive to a developer if a waterway did not intrude into it, so from the Holloways point of view it would be beneficial long term to do away with the water - and any necessary dealings with British Waterways or similarly interested bodies in the name of historic preservation - and fill it in, this would secure a tidy sum if put on the market at some future date. Such an area with a sitting tenant and historic committments would not be so attractive.

 

Conversley, if it was retained by popular demand for its historic associations - how will it be paying for its continued presence; what practical use will it serve; and how could Holloways be recompensed or positively involved for any increased use from water based activities. Holloways are working in the commercial market place which for them has changed to exclude water born transport. With the current financial situation it hardly seems likely a new leisure based facility would appear to be an investment of any kind.

 

Save the wharf - but for what exactly? Ideas and propositions need £'s figures attached.

 

Curious (to me) that the agents name is blanked out from all the available online documents, though their address is there.

[Derek R.]

In addition to Odana's post, from Sandwell UDP:-

16.23 Listed Building Consent and Conservation Area Consent will only be granted in the most exceptional circumstances for the demolition or partial demolition of Listed Buildings and Structures along the canalside or in canal Conservation Areas. Alterations to such Buildings or Structures may be permitted, providing that the original structure and materials are retained and restored so far as possible and subject to new structures, buildings and materials being appropriate to the canal vernacular. The canal heritage is an irreplaceable historic asset and should not be further eroded.

 

16.24 During the 20th century canalside land uses have turned their back on the canal to the severe detriment of a major linear feature. Land adjacent to canals is often a dumping ground, un-maintained with ramshackle fences and walls of diverse materials often of the poorest quality and appearance. Regularly used for open storage of materials, the security of canalside land is evidently a concern, so that mesh fencing and barbed wire abound. Landscaping is rare although wild and overgrown areas give some relief, resulting in the canals being valuable wildlife corridors.

 

 

(My emphasis)

 

Derek

Edited February 18, 2009 by Derek R.

[Pluto]

16.24 During the 20th century canalside land uses have turned their back on the canal to the severe detriment of a major linear feature. Land adjacent to canals is often a dumping ground, un-maintained with ramshackle fences and walls of diverse materials often of the poorest quality and appearance. Regularly used for open storage of materials, the security of canalside land is evidently a concern, so that mesh fencing and barbed wire abound. Landscaping is rare although wild and overgrown areas give some relief, resulting in the canals being valuable wildlife corridors.

 

 

(My emphasis)

 

Derek

Canalside land owners have always turned their back on the canal, except where they were users of canal transport. Unlike the rest of Europe, British canals were, in the main, private, and their land was also private. Most canal companies spent time and effort maintaining their isolation, and any canalside premises would have had to pay an annual sum for windows or doors facing the canal. There are boxes full of such agreements in the archives. The opening up of the towpath is a particular problem we have in Britain as historically local people have been deterred from using the canal. This was especially so in industrial areas, where gates on to the towpath were often kept locked. Liverpool, in particular, suffers from the results of this relative isolation, though the BCN has similar problems in some areas.

[carlt]

Just an update on this.

 

I got a reply from my objection to the planning proposal, lodged with Sandwell MBC, today and the Council's Planning Committee will be meeting, to consider the application on 18 March.

 

The meeting will be held at the Council House, Freeth Street, Oldbury commencing 5.00pm.

[zenataomm]

What's the latest on this sad story?