How would you lik your licence mony spent, please?

[alan_fincher]

The folloing paddle gear has remained in this state, broken, for in excess of 2 years.

 

Meanwhil the "Keep of cills" sign is already showing the early signs of boat damage that are systematically taking out those fixed to this particularly ill chosen place on a rubbing boards

 

 

I know which I'd rather have my licence money spent on.

Edited October 25, 2008 by alan_fincher

[AlanJ]

I might need to run for cover here, but why were the "keep clear of cill" signs put up? Was there an incident that necessitated it?

 

I know where I would rather see the money being spent, but surely wouldn't we all like to see a better maintained system?

[sueb]

I might need to run for cover here, but why were the "keep clear of cill" signs put up? Was there an incident that necessitated it?

 

I know where I would rather see the money being spent, but surely wouldn't we all like to see a better maintained system?

Boats get caught on cills on a regular basis so adequate well placed signs may help. The ones currently won't work. I would rather see the maintenance done but I have a theory that BW have a deal with the sign people.

How many have caught the cill more than once?

Sue

[Scotty]

Repairs please, there are far too many signs spoiling the view already.

[Rick-n-Jo]

What makes you think BW give a stuff about what WE want?

 

?

 

[Hobbler]

Repairs please, there are far too many signs spoiling the view already.

 

 

Feeling bored one day I counted the signs at a popular visitor mooring . I gave up when I got to 77 !!!!

 

Personally, there are now so many around the waterway, I see them but they just dont register anymore.

[Keeping Up]

Notices are cheaper than repairs. Like all the locks that have a notice telling you to close the gates and paddles to save water, next to the ntices telling you to empty the lock after leaving it (even when travelling uphill) because the walls leak.

 

For 200 years the canals have been able to do without notices, but have needed maintenance. I can't see why that should have changed.

[Malarky]

I would like to see a canal maintained to a large extent by the users, and the same for the boats. Licence money would be used to protect the wildlife, and a fund for contributing towards rectifying dammages to both the wildlife and people, as with such a system insurance would be minnimal. This system could be boulsterd up with grants from Defra, and the Government. Millions would then be saved by cutting BWB right out of the equasion, allong with the end to the crimes against humanity that they commit. I believe work groups could be organised to fix locks etc. and that people would enjoy doing it just for the expeience.

[Stourbridgeguy]

I would like to see a canal maintained to a large extent by the users, and the same for the boats. Licence money would be used to protect the wildlife, and a fund for contributing towards rectifying dammages to both the wildlife and people, as with such a system insurance would be minnimal. This system could be boulsterd up with grants from Defra, and the Government. Millions would then be saved by cutting BWB right out of the equasion, allong with the end to the crimes against humanity that they commit. I believe work groups could be organised to fix locks etc. and that people would enjoy doing it just for the expeience.

 

A very good idea, then we could have the waterways run by committee's, would we have to pay tolls to get from one area to another just like the old days?

[Malarky]

A very good idea, then we could have the waterways run by committee's, would we have to pay tolls to get from one area to another just like the old days?

Idon't think so, you'll be the guinea pig testing their workmanship! All high risk, low cost. But I really belieive a bunch of enthusiasts would do a better job for free than BWB, have fun, and enjoy seeing people using their workmanship for free!

[sueb]

Idon't think so, you'll be the guinea pig testing their workmanship! All high risk, low cost. But I really belieive a bunch of enthusiasts would do a better job for free than BWB, have fun, and enjoy seeing people using their workmanship for free!

Join wrg and see if it works, get training and have fun.

Sue

[stort_mark]

Wondering when will be the first time a boat gets caught up on a badly positioned "Beware of the Cill" sign....

 

In Liverpool, of course, they are culturally sensitive and the signs say "Beware of the Cilla".

 

I'd like the licence money to be spent on chocolate.

[bag 'o' bones]

Anything that does not involve spending money on spurious 'health and safety' signs. Personally if a boater on the waterways doesn't understand the dangers of cills (or anything similar for that matter) then really they shouldn't be on the waterways!

 

Trouble is with BW there a large organistation which like all organisations that get to a certain size they become hopelessly inefficient.

 

On the subject of funding - I know it was mentioned on another thread - I reckon that all new waterways should not come under BW control - there too stretched as it is - but perhaps be run on a semi private grant maintained arrangement. Schools and colleges seem to have benefited from GM status so why not the canals? The ability to arrange cost effective maintainance for one thing.

 

Just an idea, there's probally negative issues i've not thought of.

Edited October 26, 2008 by bag 'o' bones

[Tiny]

I'd like it spent on canals run by track experts and not red tape merchants in offices, health and safety nuts, ecologists, media spokesmen, producers of endless brochures and the whole lot of bods who spend the majority of the money BW gets.

 

Once - before BW were modernised - we had section inspectors and maybe a typist in the office - both of who were accessable by phone - while on the waterways we had lots of men in little blue boats - we reckoned to see twelve or more in a days travel. Take that system - put a few tweeks in it and we could have a canal network that we all might like.

 

But what we do have - is a BW with offices full of deskjockeys whining that they need more money while spending what they get, not on what we might think important but on the latest whim of some management type. Unfortunately, given the strangle hold this current cast of jobsworths have on the canals don't hold your breath and expect it to get better!

[alan_fincher]

Wondering when will be the first time a boat gets caught up on a badly positioned "Beware of the Cill" sign....

Perhap not quite as daft as it sounds.

 

I'm definitely awaiting the first incident on the Grand Union where a line has got trapped behind one of those already part dragged off the beam. .... "We are removing them all because of the 'snagging' hazard...."

 

Uxbridge lock also has one in a novel location, as you approach. It's been nailed to a tree beside the lock.

 

Alan

 

(Now moored alongside Mike [blackrose] at Brentford)

[SteveE]

I'd like it spent on canals run by track experts and not red tape merchants in offices, health and safety nuts, ecologists, media spokesmen, producers of endless brochures and the whole lot of bods who spend the majority of the money BW gets.

 

Once - before BW were modernised - we had section inspectors and maybe a typist in the office - both of who were accessable by phone - while on the waterways we had lots of men in little blue boats - we reckoned to see twelve or more in a days travel. Take that system - put a few tweeks in it and we could have a canal network that we all might like.

 

But what we do have - is a BW with offices full of deskjockeys whining that they need more money while spending what they get, not on what we might think important but on the latest whim of some management type. Unfortunately, given the strangle hold this current cast of jobsworths have on the canals don't hold your breath and expect it to get better!

 

Well said!! The really sad thing is that this set-up is what happens in lots of other areas of British life and there is no way of changing it. 'Most people', in my experience, do not see these strategies as being undesirable and it is they who vote the relevant ar*eholes into positions where crucial decisions are made. My own view is that one set of ar*eholes would be replaced by another similar set at any party-changing election so just laugh at it and then forget it.

SteveE

[AlanJ]

What representation do we (waterways users) get when it comes to BW?

Are there representatives from various organisations that sit with the BW exec's when it comes to discussions about the future of the waterways?

 

I know it would be hard to decide who should represent boaters, fishermen, walkers, canoeist and any other Tom, Richard or Harry that uses the waterways, but surely we have some kind of say in what goes on?

 

Getting our own individual opinion heard is always harder to achieve, but is there no-one speaking up for us at BW board level?

[john the duck]

repairs please

[sueb]

What representation do we (waterways users) get when it comes to BW?

Are there representatives from various organisations that sit with the BW exec's when it comes to discussions about the future of the waterways?

 

I know it would be hard to decide who should represent boaters, fishermen, walkers, canoeist and any other Tom, Richard or Harry that uses the waterways, but surely we have some kind of say in what goes on?

 

Getting our own individual opinion heard is always harder to achieve, but is there no-one speaking up for us at BW board level?

Yes Do BW listen? NO

Sue

[AlanJ]

Yes Do BW listen? NO

Sue

 

Is that yes - we do have people at that level?

If so - who are they and why does it appear that they are not representing the people they are there to represent?

[bag 'o' bones]

I suppose the closest we have to representation is the waterways association or whatever its called.

 

Going back to my earlier post about grant maintained canals no-ones commented which I find surprising - thought it might spark a bit of debate - might be one for a separate thread though.

[GSer]

Don't worry, they've not wasted money on signage on the K&A, laminted A4 printed paper held in place by cable ties, top job

 

Paul

[137-Digital]

It wouldn't surprise me that the reason that they are putting more effort/money into putting signs up is because of the culture that we seem to be developing where people will sue over anything.

I would like to see more money spent on repairs and maintaining the system but as long as we have people out there that don't want to use their common sense, BW will go for the route which will stop them ending up in court with people suing them for every slip and fall that happens

 

Andy

[bag 'o' bones]

It wouldn't surprise me that the reason that they are putting more effort/money into putting signs up is because of the culture that we seem to be developing where people will sue over anything.

I would like to see more money spent on repairs and maintaining the system but as long as we have people out there that don't want to use their common sense, BW will go for the route which will stop them ending up in court with people suing them for every slip and fall that happens

 

Andy

 

Very true.

 

Bring back the 'participate at your own risk'

 

Someone will be sueing for falling in next.

[US Marines]

It wouldn't surprise me that the reason that they are putting more effort/money into putting signs up is because of the culture that we seem to be developing where people will sue over anything.

I would like to see more money spent on repairs and maintaining the system but as long as we have people out there that don't want to use their common sense, BW will go for the route which will stop them ending up in court with people suing them for every slip and fall that happens

 

Andy

I'm sure you're absolutely right but its mis-guided and/or is the result of poor advice.

 

I'm aware of a Court case where some toe rags broke into a Contractor's compound to try and steal equipment and then one of them climbed into a small enclosure within the compound that was fenced off with razor wire on the top and plastered all over with 'High Voltage - Danger of Death' signs but still managed to electrocute himself. The Contractor was found guilty of breaching H&S Regs because the equipmeent within the locked and signed enclosure in the locked and signed compound was deemed 'dangerous'.

 

Whether or not something is signed will not get BW out of a Court case involving injury or death to anyone on their network.

 

Much work has been done in the highways field to try and determine the effectiveness of signs and this clearly shows that over use of signs leads to people ignoring them - and it certainly makes it harder for people to identify which signs are actually important.

 

It is obvious to everyone who properly considers this issue that signs are meant to warn people of hazards that they wouldn't otherwise be aware of - and should be used sparingly.

 

I really don't understand why highway authorities and BW etc struggle so hard with this issue and often get it so wrong.