Chain Saws

[Justme]

Although there is no specific legislation regarding chainsaw use if you look on the HSE website they have made it very clear that they consider a NPTC in chainsaw operation to be the very minimum qualification to use a chainsaw anywhere that is not your own private land. Even if you use one on your own land and other people are present you must have one.

 

If you use a saw and there is an accident they will prosecute no matter who is hurt, yes even if the operator is the only person hurt, they are very clear about this.

 

I am sorry but most of your post is drivel.

 

HSE only have authority in a work enviroment. They like to words things so it implies they have more power than they realy do. They can not prosecute a private individual using a chainsaw for personal use even if some one gets hurt (the police can). They might be called to give evidence & explaine best practice but they have no control over non business safety.

 

Justme

[Stroudwater Boy]

I am sorry but most of your post is drivel.

 

HSE only have authority in a work enviroment. They like to words things so it implies they have more power than they realy do. They can not prosecute a private individual using a chainsaw for personal use even if some one gets hurt (the police can). They might be called to give evidence & explaine best practice but they have no control over non business safety.

 

Justme

Always good to have a correction from an expert, thank you. The words I used were from an HSE inspector and as a result of a conversation on the use of a chainsaw on a towpath so I am a little surprised to hear that he was giving such bad advice but as I know him well you can be sure that I will put him right!

 

He was quoting PUWER regulations section 9 by the way. Can you clarify the act that allows the police to prosecute someone for having an accident with a chainsaw please, I was an officer for 20 years and missed this one somehow.

[Justme]

Always good to have a correction from an expert, thank you. The words I used were from an HSE inspector and as a result of a conversation on the use of a chainsaw on a towpath so I am a little surprised to hear that he was giving such bad advice but as I know him well you can be sure that I will put him right!

 

He was quoting PUWER regulations section 9 by the way. Can you clarify the act that allows the police to prosecute someone for having an accident with a chainsaw please, I was an officer for 20 years and missed this one somehow.

 

 

I think the one you are looking for could be manslaughter (death by accidental negligence I think).

 

Oh & this is from the HSE web site (my bold) HERE

 

"Our mission is to protect people's health and safety by ensuring risks in the changing workplace are properly controlled."

 

They do not cover iindividuals doing things not as part of a trade, job or employment.

 

 

Justme

[dor]

Jeez, I thought the H&S mafia were bad enough; now others want to stop us doing things. I've used a chain saw off & on for the last 30 years. I hold no formal qualifications but I bet I am a damn sight safer with a chain saw than some people with all the qualifications. You certainly have to treat chain saws with considerable respect, but Joe can go and buy one in B&Q for £60. Is that any different to a nail gun or any number of other tools that are potentially lethal? We will finish up where everything will be legislated against and you will have to employ a "professional" to change a tap washer or hang a picture the way we are going. People need to start looking out for themselves and stop expecting legislation to protect them from every possible event that may turn out to be dangerous. I think there is little that is more dangerous in our lives than operating locks - so how many of you want to see than activity curtailed?

 

There are people who will indulge in dangerous activities and if they endanger and harm other individuals there are laws that can deal with them. In the mean time jet's get on with our lives. Darwin awards anybody?

[Big Steve]

Jeez, I thought the H&S mafia were bad enough; now others want to stop us doing things. I've used a chain saw off & on for the last 30 years. I hold no formal qualifications but I bet I am a damn sight safer with a chain saw than some people with all the qualifications. You certainly have to treat chain saws with considerable respect, but Joe can go and buy one in B&Q for £60. Is that any different to a nail gun or any number of other tools that are potentially lethal? We will finish up where everything will be legislated against and you will have to employ a "professional" to change a tap washer or hang a picture the way we are going. People need to start looking out for themselves and stop expecting legislation to protect them from every possible event that may turn out to be dangerous. I think there is little that is more dangerous in our lives than operating locks - so how many of you want to see than activity curtailed?

 

There are people who will indulge in dangerous activities and if they endanger and harm other individuals there are laws that can deal with them. In the mean time jet's get on with our lives. Darwin awards anybody?

 

just what I wanted to say, but couldn't find the right words.

[1066]

I am NPTC qualified in chainsaw use,but if people want to play about with these things, then so what ....... if you see somebody using a chainsaw in a dangerous manner, then stay away from them. If you don't know what constitutes a dangerous way to use a chainsaw is, then good luck to you. Who cares!

Edited August 25, 2008 by 1066

[Guest]

Jeez, I thought the H&S mafia were bad enough; now others want to stop us doing things. I've used a chain saw off & on for the last 30 years. I hold no formal qualifications but I bet I am a damn sight safer with a chain saw than some people with all the qualifications. You certainly have to treat chain saws with considerable respect, but Joe can go and buy one in B&Q for £60. Is that any different to a nail gun or any number of other tools that are potentially lethal? We will finish up where everything will be legislated against and you will have to employ a "professional" to change a tap washer or hang a picture the way we are going. People need to start looking out for themselves and stop expecting legislation to protect them from every possible event that may turn out to be dangerous. I think there is little that is more dangerous in our lives than operating locks - so how many of you want to see than activity curtailed?

 

There are people who will indulge in dangerous activities and if they endanger and harm other individuals there are laws that can deal with them. In the mean time jet's get on with our lives. Darwin awards anybody?

Sorry DOR I have no argument with you personally, but in my experience, amateurs who think they know what they are doing with a chainsaw are the very people who shouldn't be allowed within 50 yards of one. You may well be an exception, but I have seen dozens who simply should be banned from owning them. I agree that a lot of the health and safety legislation is stupid, but in the case of chainsaws I make an exception. As I stated earlier, I have seen all the counter arguments here and elsewhere, but you won't move me on this one.

 

I am NPTC qualified in chainsaw use,but if people want to play about with these things, then so what ....... if you see somebody using a chainsaw in a dangerous manner, then stay away from them. If you don't know what constitutes a dangerous way to use a chainsaw is, then good luck to you. Who cares!

Do you mind if I were to drive in a dangerous manner near you or your family, then I insist that you "just stay out of my way" if you complain? We all have a duty of care to each other, and operating chainsaws on towpaths is bloody irresponsible.

[turnbuttonboy]

While I would agree that anyone can put their own health at risk how they please, Catweasels original posting described a man using his partner as a saw horse. Surely, even if this man is happy to spend the rest of his life wiping her rear, the rest of us have a duty of care for her? Would we walk away if we could see that a boat was likely to get hung on a lock cill?

 

As for the H and S - a friend was once cutting out his own roadside hedge and a passing H and S officer ordered him to stop and refused to let him continue until he had put on the relevant safety gear. He may have been acting beyond his official powers but he was most adamant.

 

Used sensibly chainsaws are a fantastic tool but the original posting describes a practice that gives me the heebie geebies. I hate all the rules and regulations imposed on us, and am in no hurry to tell people what they can and cannot do but my own conscience would have meant that I would have said something to this couple.

 

Just a few thoughts. Giles.

[Guest]

While I would agree that anyone can put their own health at risk how they please, Catweasels original posting described a man using his partner as a saw horse. Surely, even if this man is happy to spend the rest of his life wiping her rear, the rest of us have a duty of care for her? Would we walk away if we could see that a boat was likely to get hung on a lock cill?

 

As for the H and S - a friend was once cutting out his own roadside hedge and a passing H and S officer ordered him to stop and refused to let him continue until he had put on the relevant safety gear. He may have been acting beyond his official powers but he was most adamant.

 

Used sensibly chainsaws are a fantastic tool but the original posting describes a practice that gives me the heebie geebies. I hate all the rules and regulations imposed on us, and am in no hurry to tell people what they can and cannot do but my own conscience would have meant that I would have said something to this couple.

 

Just a few thoughts. Giles.

Glad some people can see sense. Furthermore another thought occurred to me: These people were operating a chainsaw in a very unsafe manner on a BW towpath, which as far as I am aware is still BW property. In this instance would H and S intervene should an accident occur with a chainsaw? What would BW make of this situation? Would they be happy with people using the towpath in such a manner?

Now imagine if a fisherman produced a chainsaw whilst fishing and started hacking up a few logs? Would boaters have nothing to say on the matter? Would they stay out of his way and argue that he is free to choose?

As others have said; what people choose to do on their own premises is their responsibility, but this is very different situation.

I agree that any power tool carries a danger; my colleague who has been a carpenter for a lifetime, cut the end off his finger last year with a planer. But anybody who has witnessed a chainsaw's kick will agree they are lethal IN THE WRONG HANDS. Anybody using a chainsaw responsibly will have already spent as much or even more on suitable protective gear, than they spent on the machine initially. Anyhting less and they are kidding themselves.

Edited August 26, 2008 by Guest

[saltysplash]

Glad someone can see sense. Furthermore another thought occured to me: These people were operating a chainsaw in a very unsafe manner on a BW towpath, not a pulic right of way, I understand. What would BW make of this situation? As others have said, what

people choose to do on their own premises is their problem, but htis is vey different.

 

 

It is possible that the H&S may have jurisdiction on BW property, but I recon it would be BW who end up in the dock for not protecting their users and not the wally weilding the saw

 

As for the H and S - a friend was once cutting out his own roadside hedge and a passing H and S officer ordered him to stop and refused to let him continue until he had put on the relevant safety gear. He may have been acting beyond his official powers but he was most adamant.

 

 

 

Lol...the passing H&S official sounds a jobs worth and needs to read up on his/her own powers

[Guest]

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article1751209.ece

[Barry]

I'm not sure that we have a "duty of care" because thats a health and safety legislation term so strictly speaking belongs in the workplace.

 

In the public arena I think what we have is a "moral responsibility" - especially if we are not alone when operating the chainsaw. We have a moral responsibility to not endanger the life of someone nearby when we are using a dangerous tool

 

I have a chainsaw licence - before I got it I was pretty blase about the dangers - as I was doing the course I began to wake up to the dangers and after I qualified as a chainsaw operator I did my damnedest to stay away from the bloody things - still do

 

I think the reason is that they are SO potentially lethal - most other power tools are likely to impale (as in the case of the Hilti gun described earlier) or remove fingers or other bits of anatomy which will mostly be survivable so you MIGHT die - but with chainsaws there is a very good chance that you WILL die

 

To be honest I don't care much about the idjit who tops himself through his own ignorance - I might worry about the pain of those he leaves behind but any fool who uses a chainsaw and risks someone else's life whilst doing so by not properly protecting them is an irresponsible fool and deserves to be told so

[tidal]

If a chainsaw is used or any other "works" are carried out on BW land or land belonging to any commercial enterprise such as a farm or indeed on a public right of way or bordering a public highway, (Carl?)or public controlled land (parks etc) and an accident occurs then the HSE will be entitled legally to get involved.

 

Primarily it will be the owner or company or agency responsible for the land who will bear the responsibility for "allowing" the work to be carried out, but ANY civil action that resulted from their investigation would be reflected by a separate action on the person wielding said power tool.

 

As members of the public are permitted access to the towpaths, (this includes licensed boaters) I am really surprised that BW haven't already forbidden "works" of any sort without their specific permission which no doubt would require a permit and the relevant safety assessment.........if they haven't?

 

It is of course your choice, but however safe you think you are, one slip, could end up with you up to your **** in legal problems and possibly, even probably very very poor indeed

[carlt]

If a chainsaw is used or any other "works" are carried out on BW land or land belonging to any commercial enterprise such as a farm or indeed on a public right of way or bordering a public highway, (Carl?)or public controlled land (parks etc) and an accident occurs then the HSE will be entitled legally to get involved.

 

Primarily it will be the owner or company or agency responsible for the land who will bear the responsibility for "allowing" the work to be carried out, but ANY civil action that resulted from their investigation would be reflected by a separate action on the person wielding said power tool.

 

As members of the public are permitted access to the towpaths, (this includes licensed boaters) I am really surprised that BW haven't already forbidden "works" of any sort without their specific permission which no doubt would require a permit and the relevant safety assessment.........if they haven't?

 

It is of course your choice, but however safe you think you are, one slip, could end up with you up to your **** in legal problems and possibly, even probably very very poor indeed

I imagine BW's rules are the same as the public highway. When I was a Highways engineer, if anyone was carrying out any works on the PH (including mowing the highway verge) then I would first have wanted to see their £3m public liability policy and then establish that they were working in a safe manner and not doing anything that would damage the highway.

 

Council policy (according to my boss) was that I should have stopped anyone who wanted to mow the verge, outside their house but I regarded this as ott so, as long as they were prepared for any consequences, I'd let them get on with it.

 

If someone was slicing logs, with a chainsaw, on the footpath, certificate or not, then I'd have asked them to stop, if they refused then I'd call the police.

 

This happened a number of times (not chainsaw related), on one occasion leading to a judge almost being arrested (he backed down when the policeman asked him if cuffs would be necessary) because he kept replacing rocks that I'd had removed from the verge outside his house.

 

I sometimes think I'd make a great whitecap.

[tinca steve]

It seems that from reading these posts that two things have come to mind, 1/ can you legally use a chainsaw on a towpath without permission and 2/what was being sawn, where did it come from, if from the side of the canal would that be classed as theft?

[John Orentas]

Not a new topic this one, but just as valid as ever.

 

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php...art=#entry45575

[carlt]

For anyone who's just clicked on John's link, and wants to get back to normal:

 

Click on "Options" (top righthand corner)

Click on "swich to standard"

 

Welcome back to normality!