Isuzu 55 - rocker head cover bolts loose!

[blackrose]

This morning I started my engine and noticed that 4 or 5 machine screws that hold on the rocker cover (at least I think that's what it is - just under the air filter) along one side on my Isuzu 55 were vibrating loose. I tried to tighten one up but it just spun around so I took it out to see aluminium in the threads! I haven't tried the others but I think they're the same.

 

This engine was installed in May/June 2005 and has only done 220 hours. I phoned HMI Isusu and of course they can't think of a logical explanation for this. I explained I have never touched these screws until now. In my opinion they were overtightened at the factory and the threads were stripped. The only thing that's been holding them on is the paint. The engine is still runing fine but of course I'm not going to start it again until the problem has been resolved.

 

HMI are supposed to be getting back to me this afternoon but I very much doubt they will consider this a warranty job. The engine is almost 3 years old and their terms of warranty for private use stipulate the earlier of either: 30 months from the date of despatch from HMI or 24 months or 1500 hours from engine installation.

 

I guess I'm screwed. What should I do about this? Does anyone know of any companies specialising in modern engines who could come out to Watford Herts on the GU and redrill & tap some holes - I think it's aluminium. I don't feel confident enough to do this myself.

 

Edit: Well it seems I underestimated HMI and spoke too soon - I just heard back from them and they are sending someone out to "helicoil" some new screws in on Friday. I guess in the sceme of things it's a small job.

Edited May 21, 2008 by blackrose

[KenK]

Edit: Well it seems I underestimated HMI and spoke too soon - I just heard back from them and they are sending someone out to "helicoil" some new screws in on Friday. I guess in the sceme of things it's a small job.

 

Nice to hear about good service for a change. I've a Triton shower, started to get a problem could not adjust the temp, phoned company to ask about help / parts, young lady said it is under warranty. I said it's two years old and I haven't got the receipt, response we only started making them in 2005 so it must be under warranty until 2010, engineer organised. Promised to phone an hour before he was due to save me having to wait, did just that, had all the parts, shower fixed.

 

Hope your fix is as easy. Is it my imagination or do you seem to be having lots of problems recently?

 

Ken

[blackrose]

Nice to hear about good service for a change. I've a Triton shower, started to get a problem could not adjust the temp, phoned company to ask about help / parts, young lady said it is under warranty. I said it's two years old and I haven't got the receipt, response we only started making them in 2005 so it must be under warranty until 2010, engineer organised. Promised to phone an hour before he was due to save me having to wait, did just that, had all the parts, shower fixed.

 

Hope your fix is as easy. Is it my imagination or do you seem to be having lots of problems recently?

 

Ken

 

Yes I am having problems and I spoke too soon again! HMI just called me back to say they thought my engine was installed in 2006 but they just realised it was 2005 meaning it's out of warranty. Their man is in my area on Friday but they want a credit card number before they'll get him out to me. They reckon if all 10 holes need retapping it will cost no more than £175 including the call out charge & VAT. I guess they've got me by the balls, unless anyone knows someone cheaper in the area?

 

They said I should have told them about it within the warranty period (24 months), but how was I supposed to know that threads were stripped under screwheads that were painted over? It p*sses me off since it's so obvioulsly an assembly issue. I've never taken the rocker cover off and the paint that's still on most of the screwheads can attest to that, so how else could the threads have got stripped other than when it was originally put on? It makes me wonder what else they've done wrong in assembly?

 

I shall certainly be visiting the Isuzu stand at Crick this weekend to make my views known to them and anyone else who's interested.

Edited May 21, 2008 by blackrose

[tomsk]

Yes I am having problems and I spoke too soon again! HMI just called me back to say they thought my engine was installed in 2006 but they just realised it was 2005 meaning it's out of warranty. Their man is in my area on Friday but they want a credit card number before they'll get him out to me. They reckon if all 10 holes need retapping it will cost no more than £175 including the call out charge & VAT. I guess they've got me by the balls, unless anyone knows someone cheaper in the area?

 

They said I should have told them about it within the warranty period (24 months), but how was I supposed to know that threads were stripped under screwheads that were painted over? It p*sses me off since it's so obvioulsly an assembly issue. I've never taken the rocker cover off and the paint that's still on most of the screwheads can attest to that, so how else could the threads have got stripped other than when it was originally put on? It makes me wonder what else they've done wrong in assembly?

 

I shall certainly be visiting the Isuzu stand at Crick this weekend to make my views known to them and anyone else who's interested.

 

Any engineering company will be able to rectify your problem, but the sum quoted seems about right for in-situ work. My advice would be to bite the bullet, stop whining and pay the man or take them to court if you are convinced the problem is a 'latent defect'. I hope to witness your proposed rant at Crick, on what factual basis do you intend to make it or will it be on a general disatisfaction/Mr Angry platform? Should be most amusing for the massed prols. I hope you have your facts straight..

Edited May 21, 2008 by tomsk

[NB Esk]

The threads could well have been overtightened when new (they may well have been assembled with an air tool).

Also, if they weren't tightened quite enough, as the gasket has "given" slightly, they have loosened, fatigued the threads (with vibration) resulting in stripping.

Modern alloy castings, (note the word "Aluminium" not used) are not a patch on what they once were, and one way to tell is the lack of longevity of the threads.

 

As far as the cost of Heli-coiling, they aren't ripping you off............I would charge around £30 to repair a thread on site. Of course, if there were several, the price would reduce accordingly...

[DHutch]

Heli coil is indeed proberbly the best fix from here.

- As you say, if you havnt touched them, and its happen, it is ofcause basicaly a factory issue.

- However, you have no proof of anything you have or havnt done, and it is out of warrente.

 

S'just life really.

 

 

Daniel

[ChrisPy]

................................ bugger .............................. ...........

[Guest]

Not so sure about the warranty; this could be a "fit for purpose" issue. Blackrose claims that the paint remains undisturbed on the offending screws, which clears him of any carelessness. I would be contesting this one I'm afraid if it were my engine. I wonder if others have had similar experiences? Might be worth Googling etc and checking out a few other forums.

[tomsk]

Not so sure about the warranty; this could be a "fit for purpose" issue. Blackrose claims that the paint remains undisturbed on the offending screws, which clears him of any carelessness. I would be contesting this one I'm afraid if it were my engine. I wonder if others have had similar experiences? Might be worth Googling etc and checking out a few other forums.

 

 

What does Rosie do regarding the unusable engine in the meantime, additionally when you factor in the time to organise a claim and one thing and another, regardless of fault it would seem a pointless exercise. Unless you are into cutting your nose off to spite your face.

[blackrose]

Not so sure about the warranty; this could be a "fit for purpose" issue. Blackrose claims that the paint remains undisturbed on the offending screws, which clears him of any carelessness. I would be contesting this one I'm afraid if it were my engine. I wonder if others have had similar experiences? Might be worth Googling etc and checking out a few other forums.

 

I'll get Isuzu's guy down tomorrow and pay up - but I'll also get him to note that the original paint covers most of the screwheads showing that they have never had a spanner or socket on them and ask him for his opinion on the cause of the stripped threads. If I can get their own mechanic to admit a factory fault then I might be able to negotiate some sort of compensation - it's got to be worth a try.

[Mukiwa]

I'll get Isuzu's guy down tomorrow and pay up - but I'll also get him to note that the original paint covers most of the screwheads showing that they have never had a spanner or socket on them and ask him for his opinion on the cause of the stripped threads. If I can get their own mechanic to admit a factory fault then I might be able to negotiate some sort of compensation - it's got to be worth a try.

 

I guess those of us that are at the show could support you by visiting HMI's stand and questioning them about the issues they have with rocker cover screws stripping. It will also be worth asking them about quality of the alloys used in their blocks.

[Sir Nibble]

I'll get Isuzu's guy down tomorrow and pay up - but I'll also get him to note that the original paint covers most of the screwheads showing that they have never had a spanner or socket on them and ask him for his opinion on the cause of the stripped threads. If I can get their own mechanic to admit a factory fault then I might be able to negotiate some sort of compensation - it's got to be worth a try.

Helicoiling is a very easy job, the only bugbear being the issue of access. If you think you can get to those threads with a drill, then I would say do it yourself. All you would need is the correct sized thread inserts, the special tap and the inserting tool, you will get that for considerably less than £175 and still have the tools at the end of the job.

[blackrose]

Helicoiling is a very easy job, the only bugbear being the issue of access. If you think you can get to those threads with a drill, then I would say do it yourself. All you would need is the correct sized thread inserts, the special tap and the inserting tool, you will get that for considerably less than £175 and still have the tools at the end of the job.

 

Thanks. Someone I was talking to on another boat yesterday told me about tapered threaded inserts which are stuck in with locktite - at least I think that's what he was saying? It sounded like you needed a special drill bit too? Everything is accessible and I would attempt this myself but I'm a bit worried about drilling into aluminium (sorry whatever alloy of aluminium it is) and getting it wrong, the drill wobbling and making the hole too big, and generally ballsing the job up.

 

I spoke to HMI again this morning and the guy agreed that before their man starts the job tomorrow he'll have a look at whether there was an issue of overtightening in assemply and will charge me accordingly - so hopefully the bill won't be too high.

[tomsk]

Thanks. Someone I was talking to on another boat yesterday told me about tapered threaded inserts which are stuck in with locktite - at least I think that's what he was saying? It sounded like you needed a special drill bit too? Everything is accessible and I would attempt this myself but I'm a bit worried about drilling into aluminium (sorry whatever alloy of aluminium it is) and getting it wrong, the drill wobbling and making the hole too big, and generally ballsing the job up.

 

I spoke to HMI again this morning and the guy agreed that before their man starts the job tomorrow he'll have a look at whether there was an issue of overtightening in assemply and will charge me accordingly - so hopefully the bill won't be too high.

 

I thimk you're are right to be concerned. Leave it to someone who knows what they are doing.

[blackrose]

I just had a call from a very unhappy man at HMI (didn't catch his name), saying that what I've written here is unfair since the problem hasn't as yet been assessed by their engineer.

 

I don't think I've said anything that's untrue or unreasonable. Yesterday the person I spoke to was adamant that since the engine was out of warranty I would have to pay a call out charge and for any work - today they don't seem so sure.

 

The person I just spoke to told me that if I was unhappy with the level of service yesterday I should have asked to speak to someone in a more senior position. As far as I was concerned I was already speaking to their Customer Service Manager. Perhaps HMI should train their employees to escalate problems to higher levels earlier, rather than ringing up their customers afterwards to rant at them when they see comments they don't like!

 

If any of the moderators think I've said anything which compromises the forum, please feel free to edit it out accordingly.

Edited May 22, 2008 by blackrose

[Guest]

Takesome digital images before work commences.

[blackrose]

Takesome digital images before work commences.

 

Good thinking Batman!

[Guest]

What does Rosie do regarding the unusable engine in the meantime, additionally when you factor in the time to organise a claim and one thing and another, regardless of fault it would seem a pointless exercise. Unless you are into cutting your nose off to spite your face.

Think about it Tomsk

[ChrisPy]

this is a bit deja vu ................ didn't we hear about 'welded on' nuts inside the rocker cover holding the fixing bolts that secure the air cleaner, or summat like that, that fell off and made a mess of an Isuzu engine?

 

.............. I'll bet Dan a virtual pint of cider that he (the threadfinder general) can trace it

[Gary Peacock]

What you have to remember is that in the ditch crawling world engines are marinised rather than built by the popular engine suppliers, most base engines regardless of source will be similar in cost what we pay for at the bottom of the food chain is the difference in cost of the marinisation and the after service expected.

[blackrose]

this is a bit deja vu ................ didn't we hear about 'welded on' nuts inside the rocker cover holding the fixing bolts that secure the air cleaner, or summat like that, that fell off and made a mess of an Isuzu engine?

 

.............. I'll bet Dan a virtual pint of cider that he (the threadfinder general) can trace it

 

I spoke to the engineer about that case this morning. He reckons that particular engine was several years old and the design has changed since then. He's independent and doesn't work directly for Isuzu. I'm not sure what the design change was exactly because the two nuts on the inside of my rocker cover holding the air filter pipe on are just small nylocs, and the bolts they go onto them have been bent in, so that a corner of the nuts bit into the underside of the cover.

 

Anyway, my job is done. About 4 holes needed threaded inserts and it didn't take him long. Although it looked easy enough I'm glad I didn't attempt it myself.

Edited May 23, 2008 by blackrose

[Grunge]

I spoke to the engineer about that case this morning. He reckons that particular engine was several years old and the design has changed since then. He's independent and doesn't work directly for Isuzu.

 

Anyway, my job is done. About 4 holes needed threaded inserts and it didn't take him long. Although it looked easy enough I'm glad I didn't attempt it myself.

 

That seems pretty good service if they got someone there quickly.

So what did it cost you then ?

[blackrose]

That seems pretty good service if they got someone there quickly.

So what did it cost you then ?

 

Not sure yet, it depends on whether they accept that the rocker cover had never been removed. I never knew this before but under the Sale of Goods Act, goods sold must be fit-for-purpose for a period of 6 years. Whatever warranties are given do not affect your statutory rights. Anyway I've been assured that if they do charge me it's not going to be much. They're going to let me know next week.

[Gibbo]

I never knew this before but under the Sale of Goods Act, goods sold must be fit-for-purpose for a period of 6 years.

 

More to the point, under the "we want to stay in business" act, goods should be fit-for-purpose period. A latent manufacturing defect (which this looks like to me) should be covered for ever. Equipment wears out, that's just the way it is, but a company should certainly never charge a customer to repair a unit that has failed as a result of a manufacturing defect. Totally irrespective of how old it was.

 

Gibbo

[denboy]

Not sure yet, it depends on whether they accept that the rocker cover had never been removed. I never knew this before but under the Sale of Goods Act, goods sold must be fit-for-purpose for a period of 6 years. Whatever warranties are given do not affect your statutory rights. Anyway I've been assured that if they do charge me it's not going to be much. They're going to let me know next week.

very intresting point didn`t know that might help me with my inverter problem