butane to propane. Help!

[Jamboat]

Hi,

A query re gas bottles - we only use gas for cooking and just have the 1 bottle - I thought it would be useful to have a spare as sods law it will run out in the middle of cooking lunch & when marina office closed.

Plus we hope to leave the marina behind now and again

The gas bottle supplied with the boat is blue (butane) but I seem to remember from caravanning days that for year round use you want red ( propane) as it doesn't freeze so was going to swap blue for red when it's empty & get a spare. I mention this to a couple of chaps at the marina who think that the burners on the hob may need changing (along with the regulator) when I do change. Can anyone advise if it is necessary to do this?

 

Julia

[blackelle123]

Hi,

A query re gas bottles - we only use gas for cooking and just have the 1 bottle - I thought it would be useful to have a spare as sods law it will run out in the middle of cooking lunch & when marina office closed.

Plus we hope to leave the marina behind now and again

The gas bottle supplied with the boat is blue (butane) but I seem to remember from caravanning days that for year round use you want red ( propane) as it doesn't freeze so was going to swap blue for red when it's empty & get a spare. I mention this to a couple of chaps at the marina who think that the burners on the hob may need changing (along with the regulator) when I do change. Can anyone advise if it is necessary to do this?

 

Julia

 

I thought that propane was preferable on a boat due to the safety side of things!!!

[AlanH]

I thought that propane was preferable on a boat due to the safety side of things!!!

 

Why would propane be safer than butane? It is the not freezing thing that makes it widely used.

 

 

 

Most appliances have the option of either natural gas jets or LPG jets with no discrimmination between butane and propane.

Edited May 12, 2008 by AlanH

[Chris Pink]

. I mention this to a couple of chaps at the marina who think that the burners on the hob may need changing (along with the regulator) when I do change. Can anyone advise if it is necessary to do this?

 

Julia

 

 

The regulator needs changing, the cooker will almost certainly be fine, there should be a plate on the back with the pressures for propane and butane on it.

 

Butane doesn't freeze, it liquifies, at -0.5°c and the pressure is enough to pop the diaphragm in the regulator so that advice is good (global warming apart). It also burns hotter - better for chips and is a bit cheaper to run because of this.

 

There are no safety implications between the two other than using butane with a popped regulator can be a bit hair raising.

Edited May 12, 2008 by Chris Pink

[RobinJ]

The gas bottle supplied with the boat is blue (butane) but I seem to remember from caravanning days that for year round use you want red ( propane) as it doesn't freeze so was going to swap blue for red when it's empty & get a spare. I mention this to a couple of chaps at the marina who think that the burners on the hob may need changing (along with the regulator) when I do change. Can anyone advise if it is necessary to do this?

Provided the gas appliances are fairly recent there should be no need to change jets etc., but you will need to change the regulator and any pigtails you have. A lot of the butane regulators were clip on the bottle types, it depends on your setup, but you can get propane regulators that screw direct to the bottle too.

[Jamboat]

Provided the gas appliances are fairly recent there should be no need to change jets etc., but you will need to change the regulator and any pigtails you have. A lot of the butane regulators were clip on the bottle types, it depends on your setup, but you can get propane regulators that screw direct to the bottle too.

 

 

Thanks for the replies

The general concensus seems to be I will need new (red) regulator & that the jets should be ok. The hob is only few months old so certainly recent.

 

Julia

[wotnot]

I thought boats HAD to have screw on regulators.

 

Perhaps someone familiar with BSS can advise.

[Chertsey]

I thought boats HAD to have screw on regulators.

 

Perhaps someone familiar with BSS can advise.

 

I thought that you could have quick change for butane (because it operates at a lower pressure?) but not for propane - certainly I couldn't get one for propane. I don't think there are any BSS problems with them, when I bought my first nb, that had butane, we went and bought a new quick change regulator in the course of the BSS inspection, and not a word was said.

 

Are you sure you want to change? Unless you'll be using it in the depths of winter AND can't insulate it adequately, butane might be better. Not only does the hotter burning maybe make it more economical, I often wondered whether the lower pressure too would contribute to it lasting longer? Plus you can have a quick change regulator, that advantage of which is not to be sneezed at.

[bottle]

Many years ago, the connectors for butane and propane were the same (screw) except that butane was right hand thread and propane, as now, was left handed thread.

 

There is a difference in calorific value, butane is better but it will stop gassing readily at about 4°C so not so good in the winter.

[NBMike]

I thought that you could have quick change for butane (because it operates at a lower pressure?) but not for propane - certainly I couldn't get one for propane. I don't think there are any BSS problems with them, when I bought my first nb, that had butane, we went and bought a new quick change regulator in the course of the BSS inspection, and not a word was said.

 

Are you sure you want to change? Unless you'll be using it in the depths of winter AND can't insulate it adequately, butane might be better. Not only does the hotter burning maybe make it more economical, I often wondered whether the lower pressure too would contribute to it lasting longer? Plus you can have a quick change regulator, that advantage of which is not to be sneezed at.

I was working on a widebeam today and the owner was complaining that he couldn't turn the gas rings down to a simmer for cooking slowly. Turns out he's using butane. I told him it'll probably be okay if he switches to propane as it has less Calorific value. Talked myself into a job!

[alan_fincher]

Many years ago, the connectors for butane and propane were the same (screw) except that butane was right hand thread and propane, as now, was left handed thread.

 

There is a difference in calorific value, butane is better but it will stop gassing readily at about 4°C so not so good in the winter.

It must have been a very long time ago, Keith.

 

Before they went to the push on connectors on the 15KG Butane cylinders, the type of connection was screw threaded, but it had a "rubber" sealing washer in there, which you had to check the condition of from time to time. (I think even they had a "wrong way" thread, but my memory may be letting me down).

 

I believe the 4.5KG Butanes still use the same connector, as they have never migrated to push on. (Again, I could be wrong, it's a VERY long while since I bought Butane).

 

I think the "round ended" Propane connector is unique to Propane - I certainly don't recall Butane ever having anything similar.

 

I have always had my doubts about a connection of tail to cylinder outlet that relies on perfect metal to metal contact, and my fears proved justified the other day when I gave one the soapy water treatment, and found that despite tightening it "well 'ard", it was still leaking. (I do wonder how many people just replace cylinders more often, and don't know why!...)

 

30 to 40 years ago you hardly ever found Propane on canal boats - rightly or wrongly it was considered "more dangerous". I'm not sure at what date most stopped being Butane, and Propane took over, but obviously now Propane is considered the norm.

 

I assume the change owed much to people starting to make more use of their boats out of season. It used to be said of Butane, on a freezing winter morning, you could get just enough gas to boil a kettle. If you made a cup of tea, you were then screwed. But if you emptied the kettle slowly over the cylinder, then you could actually get a lot more gas, and cook breakfast too.

[smileypete]

.

Edited May 12, 2008 by smileypete

[bottle]

It must have been a very long time ago, Keith.

Yes it was and I am that old

 

Before they went to the push on connectors on the 15KG Butane cylinders, the type of connection was screw threaded, but it had a "rubber" sealing washer in there, which you had to check the condition of from time to time. (I think even they had a "wrong way" thread, but my memory may be letting me down).

I agree I was just mentioning the thread not the actual 'shape', butane did indeed have sealing washer (memory also a bit weak but think it was right handed and only connected hand tight, no spanner as per propane) and propane had the 'cone'

 

I believe the 4.5KG Butanes still use the same connector, as they have never migrated to push on. (Again, I could be wrong, it's a VERY long while since I bought Butane).

Do not know either, not used gas for many years now.

 

I think the "round ended" Propane connector is unique to Propane - I certainly don't recall Butane ever having anything similar.

Did not say it did but may have been able to put it better.

 

I have always had my doubts about a connection of tail to cylinder outlet that relies on perfect metal to metal contact, and my fears proved justified the other day when I gave one the soapy water treatment, and found that despite tightening it "well 'ard", it was still leaking. (I do wonder how many people just replace cylinders more often, and don't know why!...)

 

30 to 40 years ago you hardly ever found Propane on canal boats - rightly or wrongly it was considered "more dangerous". I'm not sure at what date most stopped being Butane, and Propane took over, but obviously now Propane is considered the norm.

Similar in caravanning (where my experience comes from)

 

I assume the change owed much to people starting to make more use of their boats out of season.

Again the same with caravanning .

 

It used to be said of Butane, on a freezing winter morning, you could get just enough gas to boil a kettle. If you made a cup of tea, you were then screwed. But if you emptied the kettle slowly over the cylinder, then you could actually get a lot more gas, and cook breakfast too. **

 

**

We had that experience, went caravanning early one year (Easter) on waking up in the morning, there was snow four inches deep, none forecast, the water had frozen, so collected snow (pure white), then had to stand out side shaking the gas bottle (butane) to make it 'gas'.

 

Oh the joys of caravanning.

 

Cannot wait to go boating, for more adventures but this time it will be gas free.

[alan_fincher]

**

We had that experience, went caravanning early one year (Easter) on waking up in the morning, there was snow four inches deep, none forecast, the water had frozen, so collected snow (pure white), then had to stand out side shaking the gas bottle (butane) to make it 'gas'.

Sorry! Didn't mean to give a lecture on gas cylinder connections!

 

I tried to spend a miserable Christmas once on a boat certainly not designed for it, (.....insulation, what insulation !).

 

After about 6 hours of failing to cook a chicken, due to pitiful gas pressure, I then managed to knock down and smash a burning Tilly lamp.

 

The following day we gave up, and moved ashore.

 

Back on topic......

 

Yes, you would need to change the regulator, and if it's not one connecting directly to the cylinder valve, the pigtails as well.

 

If you are using Butane, I don't think there is anything in regs stopping you have "push on" connectors. How could there be ? You can't get the standard size "bottle" without them, surely ?

[bottle]

Alan

 

Sorry! Didn't mean to give a lecture on gas cylinder connections!

 

You were not lecturing in anyway, it is nice to know that the brain still remembers and someone else is in the same boat (intended )

 

Yes, you would need to change the regulator, and if it's not one connecting directly to the cylinder valve, the pigtails as well.

 

If you are using Butane, I don't think there is anything in regs stopping you have "push on" connectors. How could there be ? You can't get the standard size "bottle" without them, surely ?

 

Agree 100%, the connections are designed to make them foolproof and is the 'standard'.