Food Waste

[Chris Pink]

b

Edited May 14, 2008 by Chris Pink

[blackrose]

Now I am confused - O.K. so I won't throw it in the water. Not sure that its better though to bag it and bin it and then let it rot down in land fill!!!!

 

As I haven't got access to a compost heap, just want to do whats best!!

 

Contrary to common perception, limiting or reducing your personal impact on our environment is not a simple business. Whatever you do with your food waste it will have an impact on the environment. Trying to quantify which of several alternatives will have the minimum impact would require some incredibly complex assessments.

 

I think a properly aerated compost bin (not just a pile of rotting waste) is the best place for much of your food waste - though not all putrescible food waste should be composted. Of course, for most of us on boats this is not an option.

 

Biodegradable waste sent to landfill can produce methane (if it is allowed to degrade anaerobically), a greenhouse gas which has 25-30 times the global warming potential of CO2. However, as a personal intuitive choice I would still rather put my food waste into a managed environment designed for that purpose, than impact the waterways environment by throwing my biodegradable waste into rivers or canals to feed waterfowl, fish, or microorganisms which can overpopulate their numbers and may then have effects on other species.

 

As I said, it's a complex business. Part of the problem is that we just don't have the solid waste infrastructure in this country that some other EU countries now take for granted. For example, anaerobic digestion which is virtually non-existent in the UK, can produce useful methane gases from biodegradable waste, which are tapped off and can be used to generate power. (Methane can't really be tapped from landfill until the landfill site is full and it has been capped - this may take years or even decades).

 

Isn't it sad that the 5th largest economy in the world can't seem to make these sort of long-term investments.

Edited May 14, 2008 by blackrose

[Orphiel]

How much food waste would they get through? i.e daily pototo & veg peelings, plate scrapings for two people. Then what would I do with the compost? don't have a garden but do have tubs of flowers on the boat. Most important - does it smell?

 

Mine get through that amount no problem, but they get through a bit less when they start up and less when it is colder. I just plan to either give the compost to people or use it on flowers etc. The real bonus is that months and months of kitchen waste makes a pretty small amount of compost, as all the water is drained off. There's a tap at the bottom that gives you liquid worm juice, which is non-smelly and like super-good plant feed, so I use that quite a lot. The bin itself doesn't smell at all when not open, and I had it indoors all winter. The rotting stuff inside whiffs a bit, but this stops when it composts down, I understand. I've only had it for a few months, so not collected the compost out yet.

 

Meg

[blackelle123]

Mine get through that amount no problem, but they get through a bit less when they start up and less when it is colder. I just plan to either give the compost to people or use it on flowers etc. The real bonus is that months and months of kitchen waste makes a pretty small amount of compost, as all the water is drained off. There's a tap at the bottom that gives you liquid worm juice, which is non-smelly and like super-good plant feed, so I use that quite a lot. The bin itself doesn't smell at all when not open, and I had it indoors all winter. The rotting stuff inside whiffs a bit, but this stops when it composts down, I understand. I've only had it for a few months, so not collected the compost out yet.

 

Meg

Thank you - this sounds like the answer I was looking for. I will invest in a wormery and hopefully that will solve our kitchen waste problem. My flowers might benefit as well - and so will my conscience!!!

[StoneHenge]

those are some very interesting points blackrose.

 

I must admit we do throw some waste over board, but this is usually stale bread which is eaten immediately, and sometimes unused rice (which is very little) as the fish eat that quickly as well as the swans dive for it.

 

I have seen people chuck out whole plates full of stuff though which I think is wrong.

[blackelle123]

On the radio yesterday the topic was, try not to give bread to birds as it only fills them up and is of no benefit to them. They suggested things like baked potato,wholegrains, cooked rice, cooked pasta and grated cheese etc.

 

I think somethings are still suitable to be fed to the birds and fishes but whole platefulls of slops should be disposed of more appropriately.

[Orphiel]

Thank you - this sounds like the answer I was looking for. I will invest in a wormery and hopefully that will solve our kitchen waste problem. My flowers might benefit as well - and so will my conscience!!!

 

Yeah, I must say I do feel quite virtuous, and I even eat less because instead of looking at a plate of leftovers and going 'arg I'd better eat that otherwise it's waste' I just go 'worms will like this, nomnom'.

[debbifiggy]

Blackrose is correct. You should not throw anything into the water that shouldn't already be there as too much increases bacteria which reduces oxygen which kills the fish. The small particles from washing up dishes is ok (grey water is allowed to be disposed overboard at present) but please don't throw other large bits and pieces over the side if you can help it. It's actually an offence against BW bye-laws to dispose of things in the canal. I'll look it up when I have a moment.

D

Found it .... please note ....

 

Canal Bye-Laws 1965 Section 40

No person shall throw, discharge into or onto any canal any animal (whether dead or alive) or any rubbish, stones or other material of any kind whatsoever or dep[osit such materials so as to be washed or carried into any canal by floods or other means, or in anywise cause obstruction in any canal.

 

D

[Chris Pink]

Contrary to common perception, limiting or reducing your personal impact on our environment is not a simple business. Whatever you do with your food waste it will have an impact on the environment. Trying to quantify which of several alternatives will have the minimum impact would require some incredibly complex assessments.

 

I think a properly aerated compost bin (not just a pile of rotting waste) is the best place for much of your food waste - though not all putrescible food waste should be composted. Of course, for most of us on boats this is not an option.

 

What about the advice that you shouldn't put cooked food, raw meat or diary products on a compost heap because it attracts rats?

 

Canal Bye-Laws 1965 Section 40

No person shall throw, discharge into or onto any canal any animal (whether dead or alive) or any rubbish, stones or other material of any kind whatsoever or dep[osit such materials so as to be washed or carried into any canal by floods or other means, or in anywise cause obstruction in any canal.

 

or windlass

 

Interestingly it appears to prohibit the discharge of grey water "other material of any kind"

Edited May 16, 2008 by Chris Pink

[GSer]

Found it .... please note ....

 

Canal Bye-Laws 1965 Section 40

No person shall throw, discharge into or onto any canal any animal (whether dead or alive) or any rubbish, stones or other material of any kind whatsoever or dep[osit such materials so as to be washed or carried into any canal by floods or other means, or in anywise cause obstruction in any canal.

 

D

 

 

How do fishermen get away with feeding baits and groundbaits? The fishing rights are leased to anglers by BW, so BW must condone breaking their own bylaws (that'l make a change then!)

Edited May 16, 2008 by GSer

[carlt]

What about the advice that you shouldn't put cooked food, raw meat or diary products on a compost heap because it attracts rats?

Our cooked waste goes in the dog.

[8 Ball]

I'm sorry. Call me old fasioned....no really please do, thats what I am. My waste (not excess) is scoffed by the animals that surround me. Fowl, Piscean, Crusteacian and insect. Co2 emmisions? Biological imbalance? Get real ! We are talking about bread crumbs, a few grains of rice, the odd lump of mouldy cheese and potato peelings NOT the estimated annual 37 thousand tonnes of excrement that is pumped DIRECTLY into our seas every month ! Biological imbalance?.....try thinking about the amount of dead matter (fish that have already been caught in drift netting) that is thrown BACK into the sea because of ridiculous "over quota" rules. That amount of dead and rotting matter is not normal at all. CO2 emmisions? China alone puts more CO2 into the Atmos' than the Austrilasia and the entire European continent put together. ...lets not mention India and the USA.

 

The "imbalance" caused by your scaps of food (of which I would estimate at least 70% of, will be regenerated into energy by other living organisms) causes less than a BILLION BILLION Billionth of the entire ecological imbalance caused by the pure fact alone that your deisel engine to charge your batteries (which emmit Sulphric acid gas and use up Oxegen), and the computer you are reading this on (if you are still awake ! :-) )which is using that battery energy is COMPLETLY and UTTERLY negligable.

 

By all means obey and respect the law of the cut (and BW) DO NOT "dump" rubbish in the cut (and you can read into that law a million ways...but that is a different matter) but DO NOT worry, nor feel guilty of your enviromental impact by simply "feeding the fishes" with your left-overs. You are quite literally a molicule in a grain of sand in the Gobi desert compared with what mankind has done (and is doing) right now. Your breath creates more CO2 than the food that isnt eaten (30% of what you chuck over).

Edited May 17, 2008 by 8 Ball

[blackrose]

I'm sorry. Call me old fasioned....no really please do, thats what I am. My waste (not excess) is scoffed by the animals that surround me. Fowl, Piscean, Crusteacian and insect. Co2 emmisions? Biological imbalance? Get real ! We are talking about bread crumbs, a few grains of rice, the odd lump of mouldy cheese and potato peelings NOT the estimated annual 37 thousand tonnes of excrement that is pumped DIRECTLY into our seas every month ! Biological imbalance?.....try thinking about the amount of dead matter (fish that have already been caught in drift netting) that is thrown BACK into the sea because of ridiculous "over quota" rules. That amount of dead and rotting matter is not normal at all. CO2 emmisions? China alone puts more CO2 into the Atmos' than the Austrilasia and the entire European continent put together. ...lets not mention India and the USA.

 

The "imbalance" caused by your scaps of food (of which I would estimate at least 70% of, will be regenerated into energy by other living organisms) causes less than a BILLION BILLION Billionth of the entire ecological imbalance caused by the pure fact alone that your deisel engine to charge your batteries (which emmit Sulphric acid gas and use up Oxegen), and the computer you are reading this on (if you are still awake ! :-) )which is using that battery energy is COMPLETLY and UTTERLY negligable.

 

By all means obey and respect the law of the cut (and BW) DO NOT "dump" rubbish in the cut (and you can read into that law a million ways...but that is a different matter) but DO NOT worry, nor feel guilty of your enviromental impact by simply "feeding the fishes" with your left-overs. You are quite literally a molicule in a grain of sand in the Gobi desert compared with what mankind has done (and is doing) right now. Your breath creates more CO2 than the food that isnt eaten (30% of what you chuck over).

 

Although you're quite right that the environmental impacts of boaters on our inland waterways are nothing compared to environmental problems on a global scale, if you follow your argument to it's logical conclusion then nothing that any individual does anywhere in the world actually matters because on a global scale it's insignificant.

 

I beg to differ... While the world may well be doomed by global warming, sea level rises, etc, etc, I believe individuals can still choose to limit or reduce their personal impacts, and at a time when increasing numbers of people are choosing a life on the waterways we can also choose to protect that particular ecological system. Looking at the big picture perhaps we are all wasting our time and subject to certain legal restrictions we can also choose not to bother, so that's where discussions like this are useful.

 

And by the way, the CO2 in your breath is carbon neutral.

Edited May 18, 2008 by blackrose

[RupertG]

Although you're quite right that the environmental impacts of boaters on our inland waterways are nothing compared to environmental problems on a global scale, if you follow your argument to it's logical conclusion then nothing that any individual does anywhere in the world actually matters because on a global scale it's insignificant.

 

I beg to differ... While the world may well be doomed by global warming, sea level rises, etc, etc, I believe individuals can still choose to limit or reduce their personal impacts, and at a time when increasing numbers of people are choosing a life on the waterways we can also choose to protect that particular ecological system. Looking at the big picture perhaps we are all wasting our time and subject to certain legal restrictions we can also choose not to bother, so that's where discussions like this are useful.

 

And by the way, the CO2 in your breath is carbon neutral.

 

Ghandi said that the important thing was not to succeed, it was to try. It's easy to be overwhelmed by the six billion to one odds against an individual making the key difference, but that's not the point. If you do something you know to be right, then the world is that much better - and if someone else sees you doing it, it's easier for them do it too. And vice versa, if you're well versed in vice (what is the carbon footprint of a really good martini? I'm not sure I want to know. Although it does strike me that building an illicit still into a narrowboat would be an interesting exercise).

 

I think the key is to be thoughtful in everything you do. Once you're truly happy in your actions, then get on with it - but as the wartime posters said, be sure your reason is not an excuse.

 

I suppose the ideal for food waste is to compost it and use that to grow more food! Difficult on a narrowboat without a lot of smarts, planning and discipline, so then one starts to think about butties turned into floating community allotments and perhaps passing traffic volunteering to take bags of organic waste along to them. There's not much point in spending more energy in moving rubbish around than you save in using it sensibly. One of the really exciting things about the floating world today is that there are so many new possibilities for inventing community stuff mediated by the wireless intarwebs - yet another reason to get stuck in. Sigh!

 

R

[Richard T]

The real issue is that of the health and welfare of animals within the countryside. The last major foot and mouth outbreak in 2001 (not the one in Surrey last year) was said to have been caused by a casualy thrown away meat sandwich being eaten by a pig - in some countries that we import our food from such diseases are endemic. Further more the bugs are not necessarily killed by cooking!! It is why that are a complex set of regulations - Animal By-product Regulations 2005 - which govern the disposal of food waste. See link - clicky

It is important that food waste is disposed of carefully and into secure bins if we are not to have a repeat of the 2001 carnage in our countryside. Take this scenario - you throw away infected meat into a ditch, friendly fox comes along picks up said meat to take to cubs, gets disturbed and drops it in a field of pigs, who the eat it and we get another F&M outbreak!!! Composting at home will not reach high enough tempertaures to kill the bugs either!! Food waste that is collected by councils has to be treated in very specific ways to ensure that all pathogens are killed. Sorry folks we really need to take this issue seriously.

[Ex- Member]

Thing is though there's probably thousands of morsels of rotten/infected meat out there anyway, dead animals killed on roads for one. It's simply a natural occurance weather from a sandwich or from a dead animal, the difference can't be quantified. If I wasn't on the boat. I could well be driving a car which kills a bird which is left rotting to be picked up by your fox.

 

Food waste that is collected by councils has to be treated in very specific ways to ensure that all pathogens are killed. Sorry folks we really need to take this issue seriously.

 

The majority of household waste goes into landfill as does the majority of the waste in this country. We even ship in waste from other countries for landfill here. Thousands of birds and other creatures live and feed of landfill sites. By the time the food waste gets there it's rotton. The food We throw in to a ditch or on the non public canal side is fresher and eaten quite quickly. It also doesn't have to be transported.

 

I have to agree with 8ball it's negligible, and could even be proven to assist the animals in the country side. Hedge rows have diminished dramatically over the past few decades, and there were drops in bird some bird populations as a result, as well as other animals like field mice. The fact that discarded food disappears so quickly in the countryside, proves the point that nature requires it. Supply and demand ! the fox, or as now called in cities and towns the Urban fox moved out of the countryside as the pickings were greater in the urban environment. Badgers too.

 

I think if were honest the majariorty of people only take the environmental option if they believe it benefits them in some way. There is the small majority who ardently try to be ecological, and will spend a larger proportion of their income on more environmantally friendly products and do other environmentally friendly things, but they are a very small percentage of the worlds population and will ultimately make very little difference to the plighy of humanity.

 

On the radio yesterday the topic was, try not to give bread to birds as it only fills them up and is of no benefit to them. They suggested things like baked potato,wholegrains, cooked rice, cooked pasta and grated cheese etc.

 

White bread isn't good for birds ducks swans that's true, it can kill some birds as it can swell in their stomaches. I would suggest it's not that good for humans either LOL full of sugar with all the wholmeal goodness removed before being made into a food product. You can't beat wholmeal Brown bread that we eat and feed to the ducks when stale.

[debbifiggy]

[

Interestingly it appears to prohibit the discharge of grey water "other material of any kind"

 

 

When you read this particular bylaw you can see that the sense of it is directed to avoiding things that will contribute to the canal silting up or being full of obstructions which would have hindered the work boats and required the canal companies to dredge. Therefore I don't think it applies to grey water. There is a later Waterways Act that specifically says something about grey water being ok but dumping your elsan and other pollutants such as oil, stuff from your fire etc is not ok but at this time on a Sunday I can't be bothered to look it up as dinner beckons.

D

[stubbs]

my dog eats well, the rest is bagged up and taken to the recycling lorries at work