WEBASTO NIGHTMARE - COULD IT BE RED DIESEL ?

[LEO]

Larkshall.

 

Kabola old Dutch.

 

Albi

[Paul Sylvan]

Hi!

 

At Last some one else is having the same issues. I thought I was starting to lose the will with our Webasto heating system.... We are having the same problems and to date over the last month had to replace the Glow-pin, gasket, the burner its self and now the Burner tube this is after we had the system declooked and cleaned out. It ran okay for about a week and then just stopped working and 'just died of death'. We too have been in touch with BK Marine who supplied this to our new boat via The New Boat Co, and amongst other marines all said the same in relation to the system not agreeing to the use of Red Diesel so I strongly agree with your findings.

 

Are you able to let me know which heating system you have replaced the webasto with. Im not sure how much we can take with it as it never seems to improve.

[Paul Sylvan]

Hi!

 

At Last some one else is having the same issues. I thought I was starting to lose the will with our Webasto heating system.... We are having the same problems and to date over the last month had to replace the Glow-pin, gasket, the burner its self and now the Burner tube this is after we had the system declooked and cleaned out. It ran okay for about a week and then just stopped working and 'just died of death'. We too have been in touch with BK Marine who supplied this to our new boat via The New Boat Co, and amongst other marines all said the same in relation to the system not agreeing to the use of Red Diesel so I strongly agree with your findings.

 

Are you able to let me know which heating system you have replaced the webasto with. Im not sure how much we can take with it as it never seems to improve.

 

Hi Mike,

 

Thanks for your post. Like you I also started loosing the will to live given the problems with our Webasto heater and with the lack of satisfactory service that we were receiving from The New boat Company. We finally changed the Webasto for a Hurricane SCH25 and to date, the new heater has changed our lives considerably for the better. I would be interested to know how your situation progresses given the significant interest which is now being focused on these heaters.

 

Good luck

 

Paul Sylvan

Edited April 15, 2008 by Paul Sylvan

[chris w]

Nobody seems to have a good word to say for these diesel units.

 

Well that's exagerating somewhat to say "nobody". I love my Webasto. So there's at least one person who disagrees.

 

Chris

[Gary Peacock]

Well that's exagerating somewhat to say "nobody". I love my Webasto. So there's at least one person who disagrees.

 

Chris

 

 

And don't forget not all Eberspacher owners hate them either!

[Roger Gunkel]

I have opened up a new thread for any questions for manufacturers and will tranfer the questions already asked into my list. I will also now be sending to the main manufacurers ie. Eber, Webasto and Mikumi

 

Roger

[Andy Edwards]

Hi all,

 

I've been chatting with peter about his heater and have just come across this tread in the forum.

 

I'm a boat builder/Webasto Dealer/Ex Evilsparker agent/Alde agent and general boaty person.

 

All heaters are trouble! they work when you don't want them and fail when you do. Its called boating!

 

Anybody who tells you they have a bullet proof system is setting themselves up for a fall and would be commiting suicide to go to press with it.

 

I had a run of Evilsparkers that failed over a period of time and called them in to investigate, they found fault with 1 instalation and then because i had stired my customers up to complain they wrote to every customer they had a record of me suppling heaters to and told them that the heater was installed wrongly and was not covered. This was after the southern area sales manager had dropped a googly and told me that their heaters were only designed to run on road quality fuel!

cost me a fortune hence i no longer sell their units.

 

Webasto have given me far less trouble than most and seem to operate well as long as you treat the unit as a consubable, New burner unit 9-18 months with a new heater every 5-8 years.

 

They do soot up, they are only really designed to run for a couple of hours at a time. The standard timer units give that away as they have a max run time of 2hrs.

 

The fuel companies have slowly and quietly downgraded the standard of red diesel and the road stuff has got better.

 

I am sure that every heater manufacturer was cheering on the EU when they said red diesel had to go and was gutted when customs and excise got round it by operating the new system.

 

How can anybody expect a unit the size of a small shoe box to work as well as a household boiler in such a soggy and harsh enviroment!

 

Yes the heater manufactuers need a good shoeing over there total silence and unwillingness to help. But remember that we are a very small part of a large market and almost everything you fit to a boat is a bastardization of an automotive or industrial unit.

 

Thats why boats are always female, high maintenance,tricky to work with but great fun at the right moment.

 

Thats better!!!

 

Final Point

 

To all Webasto owners

 

There are a lot of automotive units in boats, They cause more trouble than others!

 

The only real difference i have found is that the units have a plain pressed 3 leg bracket, The real marine units are mounted on a stainless plate with a proper fuse set and a seperate insulated earth point.

If you have a 3 leg mount, you might want to check out the seriel number and check it with Webasto direct in an annonimous way!!

 

 

P.s.

 

I always carry stock of burner units if you need one!

[Peter R]

Well that's exagerating somewhat to say "nobody". I love my Webasto. So there's at least one person who disagrees.

 

Chris

 

Make that two. I think that they're great - you just need to remember that they were originally designed for the automotive / truck market, and the designers never envisaged or intended that they should be left running 24/7. Use them the way they were designed to be used and they will probably be fine.

 

My personal take on this issue is that it comes down to precise specification of need. In other words if I was commissioning a boat as a liveaboard and wanted a diesel fired central heating system as the prime heat source, I would include in the specification something along the lines of 'The system is required to operate 24 hours per day for a continuous period of at least six months'.

 

Peter

[chris w]

Webasto have given me far less trouble than most and seem to operate well as long as you treat the unit as a consubable, New burner unit 9-18 months with a new heater every 5-8 years.

 

They do soot up, they are only really designed to run for a couple of hours at a time. The standard timer units give that away as they have a max run time of 2hrs.

 

That's incorrect. The [Webasto] standard timer has an infininte run time. ie: it will switch ON, but not switch OFF automatically, regardless of whether the ON was automatic (timed) or manual. The timer can be modified (by the addition of an external switch, which I have done) so that you have the option of a one hour run time with automatic switch-off at the end of the hour.

 

Chris

[Sir Nibble]

I don't have a fuel burning heater, so there is a limit to how much I care but building a combustion heater to run on any fuel is not beyond the wit of man. No one so far appears to have done this. It seems that the units limit of fuel tolerance intersects the range of fuel quality by a very small margin indeed.

Some yours ago I modified a workshop heater to run on waste oil, when giving the burner its weekly clean I formulated Snibbles 1st law of combustion.

 

Snibbles 1st law of combustion.

If you burn a lot of shit, you get a lot of burned shit.

[Roger Gunkel]

The fuel companies have slowly and quietly downgraded the standard of red diesel and the road stuff has got better.

 

How can anybody expect a unit the size of a small shoe box to work as well as a household boiler in such a soggy and harsh enviroment!

 

Hi Andy welcome to the forum and a controversial subject.

My correspondance with fuel companies has established that standard red diesel has remained the same for a number of years, whilst road diesel has steadily improved. A higher grade of red diesel has also been recently introduced and may become more widely available. I also think that if a small shoebox sized heater isn't going to work as well as a domestic boiler, it should be made clear to their potential customer particularly when he is paying twice as much for it.

 

Make that two. I think that they're great - you just need to remember that they were originally designed for the automotive / truck market, and the designers never envisaged or intended that they should be left running 24/7. Use them the way they were designed to be used and they will probably be fine.

 

Peter

 

The units may have been designed for the automotive industry bit they are quite clearly being marketed as 'CENTRAL HEATING FOR BOATS' in the boating press. As I said above, if they are not suitable for the market or unable to run 24/7, it is not up to any of us to make excuses for the manufacturers, but for the manufacturers to ensure that their advertising is not misleading.

 

 

but building a combustion heater to run on any fuel is not beyond the wit of man. No one so far appears to have done this. It seems that the units limit of fuel tolerance intersects the range of fuel quality by a very small margin indeed.

 

Well said Snibble!

 

Roger

Edited April 17, 2008 by Roger Gunkel

[wotnot]

Hi Mike,

 

Thanks for your post. Like you I also started loosing the will to live given the problems with our Webasto heater and with the lack of satisfactory service that we were receiving from The New boat Company. We finally changed the Webasto for a Hurricane SCH25 and to date, the new heater has changed our lives considerably for the better. I would be interested to know how your situation progresses given the significant interest which is now being focused on these heaters.

 

Good luck

 

Paul Sylvan

 

Paul, Can you expand on this please (how long installed, level of use, servicing etc.)?

 

The building of the shell of my new boat starts next week so I still have time to re-specify heating arrangements.

[smileypete]

It seems that the units limit of fuel tolerance intersects the range of fuel quality by a very small margin indeed.

 

Wonder if/how they meter the fuel.

 

I wouldn't mind having a Webasto to tinker with

 

cheers,

Pete.

[Heth]

Hi

Thats what we have not put a foot wrong in 3 years

David

 

Hi Paul, just thought I'd let you know I just replied to your email about this prob, also I'm adding to this reply on the forum from Dave & Heather, cos we are a couple called Heather & Dave too - hope they see this!

 

www.takeytezey.blogspot.com

[Sir Nibble]

Wonder if/how they meter the fuel.

 

I wouldn't mind having a Webasto to tinker with

 

cheers,

Pete.

Don't know about webasto, but ebers have a small solenoid powered plunger pump pulsed by the control electronics. The delivery rate is adjustable by altering the stroke of the pump, there is a tiny grubscrew for this purpose inside one of the connectors, the delivery side if I remember.

[osama_bin_laden]

Who are these people chelping on about webasto heaters?

Ive had one for nine years, used it and abused it, had in on pretty much 24/7 thruogh the winters and in nine years only had 3 yes thats THREE burner changes. I run it on gas oil, yes GAS OIL as the so called red diesel dose not exist.

Surely Mr Gunkel & Mr Sylvan are blessed with sufficient common sense to realise that when there webasto heater stops because of excess carbon / burner problems, SEVERAL times in quick succession that there may be external factors causing this?

Possibly crap cheap contaminated fuel?

 

Have you a good quality fuel filter inline like a Racor? Probably not.

 

Try buying some good quality fuel from a non waterways supplier.

I found that up here in the north that some so called marinas and chandlers that sell fuel actually sell what I can only describe as contaminated slops full of dirt, water, particulates and algea, (diesel bug).

 

The best place for us to buy fuel is from a road haulage yard where they sell loads of gas oil for the trucks who use night heaters and the diesel engined fridge trailer units.

This is beacause they have a faster turnaround of the fuel in there underground tanks.

And from what ive seen of the bankside tanks I wouldnt want anything from them going in my boat.

I bet the cassette in my thetford potty is cleaner!

 

So there you have it Messers Gunkel and Sylvan and all the other muppets out there moaning, use clean fuel not cheap slops. And fit a *CENSORED* fuel filter!

 

May allah roast your stomachs in hell and besiege you with a plague of locusts and your camels die of thirst!!

Edited September 10, 2008 by osama_bin_laden

[NB Willawaw]

We have an Eberspacher. I have had it serviced once since the boat was built 5 years ago.

Due to the price of red gasoil these days, I tend to buy proper low sulphur diesel from the garage in jerrycans and use that to

fill the tanks. The Eber has run a lot better and cleaner since we changed over.

[osama_bin_laden]

We have an Eberspacher. I have had it serviced once since the boat was built 5 years ago.

Due to the price of red gasoil these days, I tend to buy proper low sulphur diesel from the garage in jerrycans and use that to

fill the tanks. The Eber has run a lot better and cleaner since we changed over.

 

 

I rest my case!

 

 

May you be blessed with a 100 virgins in paradise

[lezmtaylor]

Yes Please!!(I didn't think there were any left)

Lez

[Roger Gunkel]

Who are these people chelping on about webasto heaters?

Ive had one for nine years, used it and abused it, had in on pretty much 24/7 thruogh the winters and in nine years only had 3 yes thats THREE burner changes. I run it on gas oil, yes GAS OIL as the so called red diesel dose not exist.

Surely Mr Gunkel & Mr Sylvan are blessed with sufficient common sense to realise that when there webasto heater stops because of excess carbon / burner problems, SEVERAL times in quick succession that there may be external factors causing this?

Possibly crap cheap contaminated fuel?

 

Have you a good quality fuel filter inline like a Racor? Probably not.

 

Try buying some good quality fuel from a non waterways supplier.

I found that up here in the north that some so called marinas and chandlers that sell fuel actually sell what I can only describe as contaminated slops full of dirt, water, particulates and algea, (diesel bug).

 

The best place for us to buy fuel is from a road haulage yard where they sell loads of gas oil for the trucks who use night heaters and the diesel engined fridge trailer units.

This is beacause they have a faster turnaround of the fuel in there underground tanks.

And from what ive seen of the bankside tanks I wouldnt want anything from them going in my boat.

I bet the cassette in my thetford potty is cleaner!

 

So there you have it Messers Gunkel and Sylvan and all the other muppets out there moaning, use clean fuel not cheap slops. And fit a *CENSORED* fuel filter!

 

May allah roast your stomachs in hell and besiege you with a plague of locusts and your camels die of thirst!!

 

I would assume that this person is a troll or has a vested interest in Webasto heater marketing.

 

Anybody who has joined this forum hiding behind a ridiculous identity and to immediately launch a scathing attack on two people who have had the guts to investigate and discuss their problems thoroughly, is not offering worthwhile input in my opinion.

 

The whole content of this post, is based on obviously having not read any of the history of the problems, nor any knowledge whatsoever or interest in the actual facts which have been carefully researched over a number of years. The poster is not even aware that I don't even have a Webasto!!

 

The whole point of this forum is to discuss issues that are of interest to other members rather than joining to cause confrontation and issue brainless and pointless insults. It is precisely this sort of attitude that spoils the forum.

 

Roger

[Roger Gunkel]

We have an Eberspacher. I have had it serviced once since the boat was built 5 years ago.

Due to the price of red gasoil these days, I tend to buy proper low sulphur diesel from the garage in jerrycans and use that to

fill the tanks. The Eber has run a lot better and cleaner since we changed over.

 

I think that now we are losing red diesel or low tax diesel, your approach will probably be the only way to go anyway, much to the relief of heater suppliers and manufacturers!

 

The costs for those running them 7 days per week will probably relegate the heaters to non liveaboard boaters, which is probably the best way.

 

Roger

[Nickhlx]

I think that now we are losing red diesel or low tax diesel, your approach will probably be the only way to go anyway, much to the relief of heater suppliers and manufacturers!

 

The costs for those running them 7 days per week will probably relegate the heaters to non liveaboard boaters, which is probably the best way.

 

Roger

 

 

From what I have deduced reading all this thread and talking to those who supply and maintain them, the Webasto is the better of the diesel heaters. Problems seem to have run in cycles and recently it seems to have been the turn of Webastos to be slated ....

 

They (all) will need the burners cleaning periodically, ( Webastos are easy / straightforward ) depending on fuel used and how the system is used - cleaning will be less often when using road diesel and less often with 28 second heating oil - it is essential to use good quality clean fuel and that is unlikely to be commonly found on the canalside, and, without an efficient filter in line, problems will be more frequent. Some have gone 2 or 3 years between maintenance, some moan and gripe about them being useless and need cleaning / new burners every few weeks depends how they are used...

 

They need to be run hard to slow down / prevent carbon build up and they need good clean fuel.

 

Still, the arguments give something for people to read about....

 

Nick

[dor]

I would assume that this person is a troll or has a vested interest in Webasto heater marketing.

 

My immediate thought also.

 

I didn't think there were any left

12 years old and very, very ugly.

 

I've been thinking on and off about this diesel business. As I understand it, domestic central heating oil is 28sec. I think gasoil is 35sec. Domestic oil will still be supplied to your home tank at the old tax rate. Now this is a purely academic question, but what would happen if you were to mix CH oil say 50/50 with the gasoil? Diesels seem to run on such a wide range of oil that it ought to work. Or perhaps 50/50 CH oil and vegetable oil?

[Denis R]

Hang on a minute, have we not just gone all the way round the block? I thought we'd pretty much deduced a long time ago that these things won't run in a sustained manner on 'canalside red'.

The issue being that the marketing of them had erroneously led us to believe they could....

[dor]

sorry - my post isn't clear. I meant running the engine on a mix of CH oil, which would still be at the old tax rate. (sorry if it is sending the thread off topic)