Insulation

[kerching]

In the building trade we use a product called Kingspan for cavity and roof insulation (not loft insulation). I have never heard of it being used to insulate boats, it always seem to be sprayfoam or polystyrene. Just wondered if any body had used it and how it would fit in with the BSS. At just over £20 for an 8ftx4ft sheet of 50mm (who says you can,t combine imperial & metric) it seems a reasonable alternative.

[blackrose]

In the building trade we use a product called Kingspan for cavity and roof insulation (not loft insulation). I have never heard of it being used to insulate boats, it always seem to be sprayfoam or polystyrene. Just wondered if any body had used it and how it would fit in with the BSS. At just over £20 for an 8ftx4ft sheet of 50mm (who says you can,t combine imperial & metric) it seems a reasonable alternative.

Some people have used Kingspan on boats. If sprayfoam is not an option then Kingspan has much better thermal insulation properties, will not affect PVC wiring insulation and does not present a fire/toxic smoke hazard line expanded polystyrene.

 

If I were using Kingspan I would try to bond it to the steel (or whatever the hull is made of) with a PU sealant like Marineflex. It's also important to seal the seams between sheets of kingspan perhaps by stuffing bits of kingspan in between and then taping over with ducktape?

Edited March 8, 2008 by blackrose

[Machpoint005]

Kingspan ... does not present a fire/toxic smoke hazard like expanded polystyrene.

 

Are you sure? Burning plastic foam has all sorts of nasties in it: what's the chemical composition of the foam?

 

Ian

[Dylan]

This is the information on the Kingspan website:

 

Class O / low risk fire rating.

 

Whatever that means.

[blackrose]

Are you sure? Burning plastic foam has all sorts of nasties in it: what's the chemical composition of the foam?

 

Ian

 

It's fire rated urethane foam. It won't burn nearly as readily as expanded polystyrene nor produce as much toxic smoke. Many of us use other polyurethane foams in our boats - namely sprayfoam, and I think Kingspan which is used in many building applications, has a much better fire rating.

Edited March 10, 2008 by blackrose

[Gary Peacock]

We used to use kingspan if you're just into saving money it is a good alternative but sprayfoam as a number of advantages and in reality is best.

Edited March 10, 2008 by Gary Peacock

[magnetman]

Does sprayfoam really stick and never move or crack or allow moisture behind it? bearing in mind boats are relatively flexible even tin boxes. Is there a guarantee period for the adhesive effectiveness?

[Gary Peacock]

Does sprayfoam really stick and never move or crack or allow moisture behind it? bearing in mind boats are relatively flexible even tin boxes. Is there a guarantee period for the adhesive effectiveness?

 

If you degrease the steel it sticks permanently you can't even scrape it off, if you save time and money and don't it still sticks but it can be peeled off and does in time come away from the steel.

 

I think that gives you a clue how some builders treat sprayfoaming!

[drunkensailor]

When I completely gutted drifter and took out all the nasty, nasty rockwool, I considered sprayfoaming it, but didn't as it was too expensive. Kingspan put me off because there would inevitably be lots of cold bridges.

I fitted 2 layers of thermawrap over everything behind the battens. I don't believe the blurb that says it's equivalent to 270mm rockwool, but the boat is much warmer and drier now, and my friend who always used to sneeze whenever she came to the boat doesn't anymore.

As an aside, I made thermawrap curtains and taped them over the windows and managed to warm up the interior of the boat by 6 degrees! Definitely when

[magnetman]

I'm trying 'eco-wool' made from plastic sheep. I've put 3 layers on my lounge chair well comfy.

[blackrose]

When I completely gutted drifter and took out all the nasty, nasty rockwool, I considered sprayfoaming it, but didn't as it was too expensive. Kingspan put me off because there would inevitably be lots of cold bridges.

I fitted 2 layers of thermawrap over everything behind the battens. I don't believe the blurb that says it's equivalent to 270mm rockwool, but the boat is much warmer and drier now, and my friend who always used to sneeze whenever she came to the boat doesn't anymore.

As an aside, I made thermawrap curtains and taped them over the windows and managed to warm up the interior of the boat by 6 degrees! Definitely when

 

What's thermawrap?

[Alastair]

I'm trying 'eco-wool' made from plastic sheep. I've put 3 layers on my lounge chair well comfy.

I've just started using this stuff. Seems very easy to work with, no mess when you cut it, seals off drafts well. We are considering using it in cushions/on benches.

[Big Steve]

Kingspan available from Seconds and co. about 1/2 the price of a "perfect" sheet. Tends to have dodgy edges and be odd sizes 10' x 4' for example. I used loads of it in my house. They have depos all over the place. Google them.

[denboy]

used kingspan on 2 boats now with no problems we used pu adhesive to stick it on and expanding pu for all the little places you can`t get into a lot cheaper than sprayfoam and not so much mess and no cutting back

[blackrose]

used kingspan on 2 boats now with no problems we used pu adhesive to stick it on and expanding pu for all the little places you can`t get into a lot cheaper than sprayfoam and not so much mess and no cutting back

What thickness of Kingspan did you use? 1" or 2"?

[denboy]

What thickness of Kingspan did you use? 1" or 2"?

1 in above gunnels 2 in below

[Machpoint005]

It's fire rated urethane foam. It won't burn nearly as readily as expanded polystyrene nor produce as much toxic smoke. Many of us use other polyurethane foams in our boats - namely sprayfoam, and I think Kingspan which is used in many building applications, has a much better fire rating.

 

So yes, it will burn, and yes, there is some toxic smoke. Hmm.

 

Ian

[blackrose]

So yes, it will burn, and yes, there is some toxic smoke. Hmm.

 

Ian

That's correct, everything will burn and produce emissions if enough heat is applied. If you think sprayfoam is more fire resistant than Kingspan then carry on... I guess you don't have any wood on your boat? Wood is far more combustible than Kingspan and in a confined space will produce emissions that can stop you breathing, especially when you consider all that varnish, wax or paint that it's been coated with.

 

Kingspan meets the relevant building codes for fire resistance and emissions, and off the top of my head the only lightweight, high performance insulation material I can think of that would surpass it in this respect is rockwool (apart from the stuff they put on the space shuttle for re-entry of course!) I'm not sure about 3M Thinsulate?

Edited March 11, 2008 by blackrose

[Chris-B]

That's correct, everything will burn and produce emissions if enough heat is applied. If you think sprayfoam is more fire resistant than Kingspan then carry on... I guess you don't have any wood on your boat? Wood is far more combustible than Kingspan and in a confined space will produce emissions that can stop you breathing, especially when you consider all that varnish, wax or paint that it's been coated with.

 

Kingspan meets the relevant building codes for fire resistance and emissions, and off the top of my head the only lightweight, high performance insulation material I can think of that would surpass it in this respect is rockwool (apart from the stuff they put on the space shuttle for re-entry of course!) I'm not sure about 3M Thinsulate?

 

 

Is Kingspan Bendable ?? we will need to do some insulation work in the fore end soon and it is quite "curvey"

or other option is back to Rockwool

Chris

[bottle]

Chris

 

Have a look at Scewfix (airtec double insulation) complies with building regs when installed to directions, equivilent to 55mm polystyrene, not used it.

 

Maybe others can advise on its suitability.

 

[magnetman]

Have a look at Eco Wool Chris.

[Chris-B]

Have a look at Eco Wool Chris.

Can it be "stuck" to the curves ??

[magnetman]

I don't know its just you mentioned rockwool and eco wool is similar but non irritant. Can rockwool be 'stuck' to the curves?

[Alastair]

Can it be "stuck" to the curves ??

Eco-wool is like rockwool, but better. It is as stiff, compresses and expands better, doesn't hold water, doesn't have irritating fibres, cuts with scissors. It's not impervious to damp air, so won't 'seal' off your steel. If you want to do that, I think you need sprayfoam, as anything else will be a bodge job. The only disadvantage is that it isn't fire-resistant. But then, if you are stuffing it behind wood . . . .

 

If I can't have sprayfoam, I'd rather use insulation that I can pull out to do painting and repairs.

[blackrose]

Is Kingspan Bendable ?? we will need to do some insulation work in the fore end soon and it is quite "curvey"

or other option is back to Rockwool

Chris

You'll get some curve from an 8' x 4' sheet of 1" thick Kingspan, but it's not ideal for the curves of a Dutch barge. Forget about trying to bend the 2" thick stuff.