Canals vs Rivers vs Navigations

[mrpaulo]

Hi,

 

We are based down south and not really able to move due to family and work commitments, but are looking eventually to buy a narrowboat. We are limiting our planning to mooring on canals as we are unsure about rivers as they are tidal, more prone to flooding. For example avoiding the Kennet and Avon (we know it's busy too!) as it would require using rivers to get to the main network of canals.

 

I am wondering if we are being over cautious about this and if we should be expanding our planning so we might be able to find either a river mooring nearer home or something on the K&A, understanding that we can easily get on the network if we want to.

 

Advice on the difference between boating on canals, rivers and navigations would be really helpful and help us to understand what we might want to plan for.

 

Thanks

Paul

[Bacchus]

such a vague question, it's difficult to know where to begin

 

What does "looking eventually to buy a narrowboat" mean? At the end of this summer, or in thirty years time when you retire? And why a narrowboat if you're considering being on the river - narrowboats can, and do, spend time on rivers, even tidal rivers, but they are suited perfectly to canals.

If "eventually" means more than a year or two, why not try hiring both on a canal and on a river and seeing what you prefer whilst learning the difference?

 

[Tony Brooks]

Unless you want to enter the canal system at Limehouse or Brentford (London), go into Bristol at certain tide states a few times a month, or the lower reaches of the Trent or Severn then you can forget about being tidal. For the majority of summer the rivers are unlikely to be in flood, but with the way weather is changing there will be periods of a few days or a week or so when the flow will increase. Then it is best to stay tied up. During the winter, all the rivers may go into flood and rise several meters. For those, you need special moorings or attend the boat several times a day and night to adjust lines and push it back away from the bank. Marina

moorings on rivers are usually safer.

 

I found very little difference between summer cruising on canals and rivers in either a variety of cruisers or a narrowboat BUT on rivers when the flow goes up either says tied up or learn when it is unsafe to navigate, how to use current and eddies to your advantage, and learn ow to read the water so you know where the current is going. That will eventually come with experience if you keep your eyes open and are aware of what the current is doing to the boat.

 

 

 

Edited May 7 by Tony Brooks

[mrpaulo]

10 minutes ago, Bacchus said:

such a vague question, it's difficult to know where to begin

 

What does "looking eventually to buy a narrowboat" mean? At the end of this summer, or in thirty years time when you retire? And why a narrowboat if you're considering being on the river - narrowboats can, and do, spend time on rivers, even tidal rivers, but they are suited perfectly to canals.

If "eventually" means more than a year or two, why not try hiring both on a canal and on a river and seeing what you prefer whilst learning the difference?

 

We have had a few holidays on canals and are forward planning, it will be an investment but one that will be for leisure not CC or liveaboard. So far we have only cruised canals, so perhaps hiring so we can try a river next time might be a good idea, the question was borne out of a lack of knowledge, but being aware that most of the reports of boats losing moorings or being affected by flooding seem to be when on a river. 

[Arthur Marshall]

9 minutes ago, mrpaulo said:

We have had a few holidays on canals and are forward planning, it will be an investment but one that will be for leisure not CC or liveaboard. So far we have only cruised canals, so perhaps hiring so we can try a river next time might be a good idea, the question was borne out of a lack of knowledge, but being aware that most of the reports of boats losing moorings or being affected by flooding seem to be when on a river. 

Canals are largely self levelling by design , so you rarely get floods. They do go dry occasionally, though. Rivers are unpredictable things. I'd have though that for a leisure boat that's going to be left unattended for long periods, a canal marina would be safer.

[magpie patrick]

There are two risks on rivers - the mooring holding your boat down as the levels rise and the flood current ripping your boat off the mooring (or even on occasion taking the mooring with it!) 

 

Being in an offline marine solves the latter - the former is solved by floating pontoons which rise and fall with the flood level. I'd only consider a river mooring for a leisure boat that was on a floating pontoon or similar resilient mooring system, and I'd prefer to be offline.  

[Bacchus]

2 hours ago, mrpaulo said:

We have had a few holidays on canals and are forward planning, it will be an investment but one that will be for leisure not CC or liveaboard. So far we have only cruised canals, so perhaps hiring so we can try a river next time might be a good idea, the question was borne out of a lack of knowledge, but being aware that most of the reports of boats losing moorings or being affected by flooding seem to be when on a river. 

 

Boats are never really "an investment", they are generally something you spend on because you love the life; that said, I have certainly made money on boats which I have improved, or simply through buying and selling at the right time. I have also lost money.

 

As others have said, levels on canals tend to be more stable in times of heavy rain (like the unprecedented wet season we have had on the Thames for the last six months), but properly moored and attended boats are usually fine. That can be in a marina attached to a rising pontoon, attached to sturdy posts with the ability to rise and fall with the water levels, or simply moored correctly for the conditions and attended when conditions change.

 

On rivers you can use wider, more "boaty" boats (or sturdy sea-going vessels), on the canals you have thousands more miles of exploring. I am Thames based and have a boaty boat - I know most of the river pretty well so exploring is pretty limited for me, but I still enjoy just being aboard either on my own or with friends. It's about a harmonious environment as much as seeing new places. I converted a camper-van a few years ago - that is terrific for seeing places...

[Tony Brooks]

8 minutes ago, magpie patrick said:

There are two risks on rivers - the mooring holding your boat down as the levels rise and the flood current ripping your boat off the mooring (or even on occasion taking the mooring with it!) 

 

I would suggest a third and possibly a fourth. When a river rises then unless you have something that keeps the boat in the channel it is likely to float over the bank so when the river falls it is either left high and dry or, if only one side is over the bank, falls over sideways into the channel. Then there is the danger that may result from wading through fas flowing floodwater to get to the boat and away again.

 

You can use a stout hinged horizontal A frame at the upstream end and a single hinged pole at the downstream end that allows up and down movement but holds the boat away from the bank. You just have to pray that the bank end mountings are strong enough to resist a  fallen tree hitting the boat and the build up of rubbish between boat and bank that always seem to occur under flood conditions. I think that I would rig stout flood lines between the boat and a suitable strong point ashore as well during the winter.

[magnetman]

I have my fleet on the Thames. Wilf moorings. A bit like Wild moorings but with a convenient christian name .

 

Its been a crazy winter. Marlow lock, which I came through today in my launch, has been on red boards / Strong Stream Advice since 20OCT23. 

 

Obviously a lot of talk of climate change etc but every ten yars or so one does see big floods. A lot of Boats including quite nice ones were lost last winter. So one must take care. 

 

One major difference between the River and canals is that above St Aines upon Thames the land owner also owns the bed of the River to half way across so it is up to them what to do about moorings. The Environment Agency (EA) do own a lot of land and riverbed but unlike the Canal and River Trust they do not own all the towpath land. Most of the towpaths are across privately owned land and because of a lack of horses due to the late 20th century  horse plague these former highly managed towing paths or barge walks have been adopted as footpaths. No rights exist to access the water or moor Boats. 

 

So yeah. On canals if you moor to the towpath you are obliged to follow the 1995 British Waterways Act. On the Thames there is the Thames Conservancy Act and others which indicate how one is supposed to behave but in the end it is a land owner question. If the land owner (private) does not want Boats then they erect signage and tell people to 'do one'. If they do want Boats they can employ a bank manager who can collect mooring fees by threatening passing Boaters with flintlock rifles or scary dogs or pickups. If they don't care or know about their land or are a public body without byelaws to control moorings then you can more or less do what you like. 

 

In a nutshell you can come on the River but be careful. 

 

 

 

 

 

[jacko264]

finding this very interesting to read

Graham

[robtheplod]

4 hours ago, mrpaulo said:

Hi,

 

We are based down south and not really able to move due to family and work commitments, but are looking eventually to buy a narrowboat. We are limiting our planning to mooring on canals as we are unsure about rivers as they are tidal, more prone to flooding. For example avoiding the Kennet and Avon (we know it's busy too!) as it would require using rivers to get to the main network of canals.

 

I am wondering if we are being over cautious about this and if we should be expanding our planning so we might be able to find either a river mooring nearer home or something on the K&A, understanding that we can easily get on the network if we want to.

 

Advice on the difference between boating on canals, rivers and navigations would be really helpful and help us to understand what we might want to plan for.

 

Thanks

Paul

Rivers are quite exciting if you're used to canals.... mixes it up!!!

[MtB]

59 minutes ago, Bacchus said:

 

Boats are never really "an investment", they are generally something you spend hose money like crazy on because you love the life;

 

FTFY.

[Bacchus]

2 hours ago, magpie patrick said:

the mooring holding your boat down as the levels rise

 

A photo-history of that happening at St Aines this year. Feel very sorry for the boat and owner, but there was no attempt made at all to loosen the lines before it got too late...

 

Sadly when the river came up a little further...

 

 

Then after being submerged for a couple of months

 

 

and the tender headed off for an adventure of its own, and now lives on the weir at Penton Hook

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Momac]

[Tony Brooks]

Here is another one stranded by floods. Just be aware of the dangers and act accordingly.