Email from CaRT

[Sweeny Todd]

Some advice please.

 

Today I received an email from my mooring manager as below. 

 

 Dear customer

I’m writing following contact from the Regional team regarding issues with the parking area at the ******** **** end of the mooring site.   

There seems to be a number of motorhomes that have been parked in the parking area recently and unfortunately motorhomes/campervans or caravans are not permitted in the parking area.  We are looking at improving signage so that it is clearer but, in the meantime, if you have a motorhome parked in parking area or know of the owners, please can they be moved off site at the earliest convenience.

I am aware that the vehicles may not be owned by mooring customers, but if you have any information about who does own them then please do let me know.

 

I have checked my mooring contract and it states that I can't have a caravan or trailer of any kind but doesn't mention campers etc.

We use the motorhome when we are at the boat as we are currently doing some work on it and we can cook/ have a cuppa etc in the van.

The parking area is as on the mooring details as first come first served. No allocated spaces.

 I'm just wondering if anyone has any advice on where I stand in this situation?

 

[magnetman]

It seems to me that the land owner can dictate what sort of vehicles are allowed to use their property. 

 

But then again if parking is specifically mentioned in the mooring contract then it would come down to what the legal definition of 'caravan' is. 

 

I think it might have quite a wide definition as I have come across a possibility that even a boat which has no wheels might fulfil the definition. 

 

 

This is what Shelter think. They might be right about this 

 

 

Further comment 

 

 

"This definition covers a broad range of movable structures, including traditional caravans, campervans, motorhomes, and adapted static railway carriages. A houseboat, which consisted of a caravan on a float (known as a Hartford Houseboat) was held to meet the statutory definition of a caravan. The caravan could be towed and removed but the float could not. [2]"

 

 

 

[Sweeny Todd]

Thank you for that information. Much appreciated

 

 

[nicknorman]

Ultimately you are a hostage to the mooring operators, but you might as well try a reply along the lines of “the mooring contract only disallows caravans and trailers, it doesn’t mention campervans”. And go on to explain why the campervan is there (ie it’s being used, not just stored” and be nice! Maybe they will let you keep it for a while. Or maybe not, but it’s worth trying!

[Peanut]

Should they want to, CRT can easily find out the ownership of a car from vehicle licencing if it is parked on their property.

[magnetman]

Its interesting to consider that this may be someone elses problem if there are random motorhomes littering the car park by a lock or something. Maybe turning issues ?

 

I suppose the obvious question is how many motorhomes are there and is this email the result of someone else complaining. 

 

 

 

 

(I took the 4 **** word in the OP to mean 'lock'). 

 

I could see how IF the car park was near a lock there could be access issues for contractors if large vehicles were using the space. 

 

 

[Francis Herne]

Presumably the motorhome is taxed etc.?

 

I know CRT don't allow SORNed vehicles on their parking spaces. A friend took his car off the road for a while during COVID (no need to use it) and was warned about it.

[Sweeny Todd]

Thanks for the replies. To answer the questions

There are 2 motorhomes that use the car park both owned by berth holders,  4 large work Van's. 6 cars. The majority of which have parked here for several years.

It's a private road which according to CaRT when issues have arisen, is owned by the owner of the 2 houses at the bottom of the private road. 

The parking is not near the lock. A gate was put up to stop dog walkers parking near the lock.

 

 

Yes, all vehicles are taxed/ MOT'd / insured

 

[Francis Herne]

If the contract doesn't say anything about motorhomes I think you've got a strong position.

 

I expect most people would consider caravans and motorhomes to be different things, especially when caravans and trailers are listed together.

Ambiguity in contracts is usually interpreted against the party responsible for drafting it, so in your favour here.

 

They may be more concerned about the possibility of motorhomes being occupied by non-moorers, which is a real problem in some places. Saul Junction comes to mind.

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

What I’ve seen with CaRT Marina’s is that Moorer’s have taken the biscuit, often having two cars and something like a caravan/motorhome, maybe CaRT  have decided to get tough with their non residential Moorers or will inforce their T&C’’s with residential. @Sweeny Todd are you on a official Residential?

[magnetman]

9 minutes ago, Francis Herne said:

If the contract doesn't say anything about motorhomes I think you've got a strong position.

 

I expect most people would consider caravans and motorhomes to be different things, especially when caravans and trailers are listed together.

 

Interesting point about the use of the words 'caravans and trailers'. Given that a motorhome is a caravan under the legal definition perhaps what they were worried about was motorhomes towing trailers (caravans).  Is there also ban on Mitsubishi type pickups and scrawny lurchers? 

 

There could be trouble. 

Definitely ban Transit pickups with dual towbars and caged loading bays. 

Edited November 23, 2023 by magnetman

[Sweeny Todd]

It's a leisure morning but we are currently gutting the boat and redesigning it. For clarification, the only time we sleep in the motorhome is when we are on holiday and not on the morning ( apart from when we fist bought it and stayed the night just for excitement sake xD)

 

 

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

11 minutes ago, Sweeny Todd said:

It's a leisure morning but we are currently gutting the boat and redesigning it. For clarification, the only time we sleep in the motorhome is when we are on holiday and not on the morning ( apart from when we fist bought it and stayed the night just for excitement sake xD)

 

 

😂😂😂😂😂😂 so you’ve be sussed, so your living in your motorhome in the car park doing your boat out, where exactly are you moored? Stop taking the biscuit, name your mooring😂

Edited November 23, 2023 by BoatinglifeupNorth

[Sweeny Todd]

HahaI...nope, I have a house. which is my main residence.  The boat is a retirement project. 

 

 

 

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

3 minutes ago, Sweeny Todd said:

HahaI...nope, I have a house. which is my main residence.  The boat is a retirement project. 

 

 

 

So it’s not this one;

Where are your moorings?

as I said have you been sussed?

Edited November 23, 2023 by BoatinglifeupNorth

[Guest]

38 minutes ago, Francis Herne said:

If the contract doesn't say anything about motorhomes I think you've got a strong position.

 

I expect most people would consider caravans and motorhomes to be different things, especially when caravans and trailers are listed together.

Ambiguity in contracts is usually interpreted against the party responsible for drafting it, so in your favour here.

 

They may be more concerned about the possibility of motorhomes being occupied by non-moorers, which is a real problem in some places. Saul Junction comes to mind.

 

Interestingly when we looked into this when we were considering keeping our caravan at home we were advised by a solicitor that in legal terms a caravan and motorhome are very much the same thing basically because they have sleeping accomodation.

[Sweeny Todd]

That one is for sale. The boat I am working on is a bit bigger than that one. It's an old working barge from the 1930's. A way bigger project than we imagined. 

 

 

 

 

[Ronaldo47]

When we bought our house some 40 tears ago, we were informed by our solicitor  that covenants on the property prohibited the keeping of caravans on the site. This covenant did not apply to motorhomes or campervans, but  only to actual caravans. Apparently a hangover from the times when a  landowner would have sold off part of his land and would still have been living nearby, and   did not want the nuisance of it being used by travelling fairs or gypsies.  Apparently such covenants were not unusual. (We are also prohibited from quarrying clay and burning bricks with it: our local soil is a good brick-earth, and the smoke from a traditional brick burning clamp would have been a nuisance for weeks). 

 

My understanding is that contracts should be  normslly construed in the context of the meaning that its wording  had at the time that the contract was agreed, but then again, the law is inba constant state of flux, and only the courts can give definite answers as to what the law is.  Wealthy organisations and individuals often rely on the fact that less wealthy people cannot afford to go to court to assert their rights or challenge decisions.  Many years ago a judge neatly summed it up by observing that justice, like the Ritz Hotel, was open to all. 

 

Edited November 23, 2023 by Ronaldo47
ritz comment

[Sweeny Todd]

A house I had previously had rules about no caravans. And no sign written vehicles strangely enough.

 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Ronaldo47 said:

When we bought our house, we were informed that covenants on the property prohibited the keeping of caravans on the site. This covenant did not apply to motorhomes or campervans, but  only to actual caravans. Apparently a hangover from the times when a  landowner would have sold off part of his land and would still have been living nearby, and   did not want the nuisance of it being used by travelling fairs or gypsies.  Apparently such covenants were not unusual. (We are also prohibited from quarrying clay and burning bricks with it: our local soil is a good brick-earth, and the smoke from a traditional brick burning clamp would have been a nuisance for weeks). 

 

 

 

See above. We were told completely the opposite.

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

8 minutes ago, Sweeny Todd said:

That one is for sale. The boat I am working on is a bit bigger than that one. It's an old working barge from the 1930's. A way bigger project than we imagined. 

 

 

 

 

So where are your moorings? Not too hard to ask. It’s not an old Waddingtons boat is it? Like alot being worked on .

[magnetman]

11 minutes ago, Ronaldo47 said:

When we bought our house, we were informed that covenants on the property prohibited the keeping of caravans on the site. This covenant did not apply to motorhomes or campervans, but  only to actual caravans. Apparently a hangover from the times when a  landowner would have sold off part of his land and would still have been living nearby, and   did not want the nuisance of it being used by travelling fairs or gypsies.  Apparently such covenants were not unusual. 

 

There is a covenant on the land here at the country estate which specifically prohibits erections. 

 

The legal definition of erection is actually quite interesting. 

[Ronaldo47]

The Institution of Civil Engineers apparently have an annual "Erection of the year" award.

[MtB]

The transfer deed to my last but one house forbade me from running a brothel, keeping pigs or carrying out tanning of leather. 

 

Nearly made me decide not to buy it! 

 

 

 

 

[magnetman]

The pigs and the leather is understandable due to the smell but a brothel seems reasonably harmless provided it is kept respectable.