Accumulator tank woes

[carp-addict]

Now I have the old one that still works is it worthwhile buying a service kit and replacing the valves or is it to much of a hassle Vs reward

Edited July 18, 2023 by carp-addict
Typo

[carp-addict]

14 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

Thanks, so not an expansion vessel.

Fitted the new water pump this morning and this has now rectified the issue.

Many thanks to all those who helped me it's greatly appreciated 👍

Edited July 18, 2023 by carp-addict

[Tracy D'arth]

3 hours ago, carp-addict said:

Now I have the old one that still works is it worthwhile buying a service kit and replacing the valves or is it to much of a hassle Vs reward

I would have thought it was too much cost and hassle, just keep it for bits/spare in case the new one packs up!

 

Glad you are all sorted.

[carp-addict]

5 hours ago, Tracy D'arth said:

I would have thought it was too much cost and hassle, just keep it for bits/spare in case the new one packs up!

 

Glad you are all sorted.

On the new pump whilst running the shower the pump is cycling all the time rather than filling the expansion tank

Am I correct in thinking Iay have to increase the pump pressure so it fills quicker

[Tracy D'arth]

6 minutes ago, carp-addict said:

On the new pump whilst running the shower the pump is cycling all the time rather than filling the expansion tank

Am I correct in thinking Iay have to increase the pump pressure so it fills quicker

If you have enough water at the shower this is normal. You are simply using water slightly slower than the pump is capable of delivering at maximum rate. 

[carp-addict]

8 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

If you have enough water at the shower this is normal. You are simply using water slightly slower than the pump is capable of delivering at maximum rate. 

👍 Thanks Tracy

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, carp-addict said:

On the new pump whilst running the shower the pump is cycling all the time rather than filling the expansion tank

Am I correct in thinking Iay have to increase the pump pressure so it fills quicker

No, you have cured the leak back by having a new pump and covered up other problems, but as I said earlier, if your accumulator was working correctly it wouldn't have cut in very often and when it did it would have run for several seconds. Maybe try doing as I suggested and seeing how much water you can draw off between the pump cutting out and then in.

[carp-addict]

11 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

No, you have cured the leak back by having a new pump and covered up other problems, but as I said earlier, if your accumulator was working correctly it wouldn't have cut in very often and when it did it would have run for several seconds. Maybe try doing as I suggested and seeing how much water you can draw off between the pump cutting out and then in.

I am getting 1.25l between cycles

[Tony Brooks]

1 minute ago, carp-addict said:

I am getting 1.25l between cycles

 

For clarity. Does that mean with the shower running and from a tap, just from the shower, or from a tap that is fully open.

Thanks

[carp-addict]

That's just from the tap nearest to the tank

2 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

For clarity. Does that mean with the shower running and from a tap, just from the shower, or from a tap that is fully open.

Thanks

That's just from the tap nearest to the tank

[Tracy D'arth]

5 minutes ago, carp-addict said:

I am getting 1.25l between cycles

That is the amount of water delivered between the pump cutting off and then cutting back in when the pressure has fallen.

I can see nothing wrong with that at all.

[carp-addict]

Not fully open though does this make a difference 

2 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

That is the amount of water delivered between the pump cutting off and then cutting back in when the pressure has fallen.

I can see nothing wrong with that at all.

In that case I am happy as well 😁

[Tony Brooks]

45 minutes ago, carp-addict said:

Not fully open though does this make a difference 

 

 

It will time wise, because if the tap restricts the flow, the pressure will drop slower than if the tap is fully open, so the pump takes longer to cut in and is faster to cut out. You are always balancing pump output against tap/shower output. If a tap or sower allowed a greater outflow than pump output, then the pump would just run and never cut out until after a tap had been closed.

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

See it’s now fixed

Edited July 19, 2023 by BoatinglifeupNorth

[carp-addict]

17 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

It will time wise, because if the tap restricts the flow, the pressure will drop slower than if the tap is fully open, so the pump takes longer to cut in and is faster to cut out. You are always balancing pump output against tap/shower output. If a tap or sower allowed a greater outflow than pump output, then the pump would just run and never cut out until after a tap had been closed.

That's pretty much what is happening now,once the tap or shower is running and the accumulator tank has emptied the pump then kicks in. However it isn't filling the accumulator tank quick enough thus the pump keeps running until the tap or shower is turned off. Then it continues to fill the tank and stops.

I wondered if I needed to increase the pump output on the pressure switch

Prior to fitting the new pump the old pump cycled on and off between showers and the tap running 

[Tony Brooks]

46 minutes ago, carp-addict said:

That's pretty much what is happening now,once the tap or shower is running and the accumulator tank has emptied the pump then kicks in. However it isn't filling the accumulator tank quick enough thus the pump keeps running until the tap or shower is turned off. Then it continues to fill the tank and stops.

I wondered if I needed to increase the pump output on the pressure switch

Prior to fitting the new pump the old pump cycled on and off between showers and the tap running 

 

You can not alter pump output (volume) by using the pressure switch. The output (volume) is governed by diaphragm diameter and stroke. By increasing the pressure, it will increase the flow through the pipe and shower head, but not to any more than the maximum pump output. That MIGHT be enough to stop the pump cycling, but yours is not cycling anyway. That is the optimum situation. In theory cycling is bad for the motor and pressure switch, but in practice it seems to make little discernable difference.

[carp-addict]

19 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

You can not alter pump output (volume) by using the pressure switch. The output (volume) is governed by diaphragm diameter and stroke. By increasing the pressure, it will increase the flow through the pipe and shower head, but not to any more than the maximum pump output. That MIGHT be enough to stop the pump cycling, but yours is not cycling anyway. That is the optimum situation. In theory cycling is bad for the motor and pressure switch, but in practice it seems to make little discernable difference.

Ok thanks for the info Tony I am happy to have the issue resolved and it's been a good learning curve for me.

[David Mack]

1 hour ago, carp-addict said:

That's pretty much what is happening now,once the tap or shower is running and the accumulator tank has emptied the pump then kicks in. However it isn't filling the accumulator tank quick enough thus the pump keeps running until the tap or shower is turned off. Then it continues to fill the tank and stops.

Of course. That's how it's meant to work. With the shower or tap turned on full, the pump is supplying water directly from the tank to the tap/shower, and with a normally sized pump, there is little if any flow 'left over' to recharge the accumulator. Once the tap is turned off, the full pump flow is used to recrharge the accumulator and the system pressure rises until the pressure switch cutout pressure is reached and the pump turns off. And when you next turn a tap on, the pressure in the accumulator air side pushes water out into the pipework, and as it does so the pressure in the system decreases, until it falls to the pressure switch cut in pressure and the pump starts. If you run the tap for a brief period before turning it off again the pump may not even start.

Edited July 19, 2023 by David Mack

[Tony Brooks]

But perhaps of more importance is that with an accumulator you are less likely to get woken up in the small hours as the pressure in the system drops because the calorifier is cooling, and also it minimises the frequency of the pump running because of any slight pressure loss.

[Tracy D'arth]

You are over thinking this, there is no problem. 

[carp-addict]

😂 Story of my life 

 

Thanks everyone 

[ditchcrawler]

Glad your all sorted