How do I grease this gland?

[Tony1]

 

Hi folks, I don't seem to have a standard stern gland, and I've neglected its maintenance, but I don't know how you do it. 

I do visually check the area for drips most times when I have the engine cover off, and haven't seen any so far, but as sods law would have it, when I was taking these pics today, I noticed it is now dripping every 3 or 4 seconds.

What's odd is that the bilge sump looked almost dry when I first lifted the cover boards, so I'm wondering if me standing on the prop shaft has led to it now leaking? 

The RCR guy probably stood on it a few times the other week, so maybe that's what's kicked it off leaking.

 

The black hose at the top of the gland leads up to the side of the weed hatch, which is where that red handle switch that you can see is located.

As long as the bilge pump is working it'll more than keep up with a drip, and if it needs a fix, maybe the time to do is when I get it hauled out for blacking in July?

In the meantime, I need to get some grease in there, and maybe that alone will stop it.

Does anyone know where the grease goes in, what type you need, and do you need a syringe or tool to push it in there? 

 

Many thanks again in advance for any advice or guidance. 

 

[David Mack]

Grease should go in through the raised nipple in front of the black tube. If this is a vetus gland I think you can just screw a tube of their grease (other brands are available) directly into the nipple and squeeze some grease in. Not sure if other brands do the same, in which case you might need a syringe.

[Tony1]

1 minute ago, David Mack said:

Grease should go in through the raised nipple in front of the black tube. If this is a vetus gland I think you can just screw a tube of their grease (other brands are available) directly into the nipple and squeeze some grease in. Not sure if other brands do the same, in which case you might need a syringe.

 

Thanks David, I'll lift off the black cover from the nipple and see if it has a thread on it, that might clarify things.

Unfortunately I cant see mention of the gland manufacturer in the file of documentation that came with the boat. 

 

 

[Jen-in-Wellies]

It looks like a species of dripless stern gland, but I don't recognise which one. Needs less greasing than usual and not the same way as the drip type stern gland. Some examples, not including yours here. The hose going in to it provides water to cool and lubricate it.

[David Mack]

3 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

The hose going in to it provides water to cool and lubricate it.

There is nothing to make water travel along the hose. I think it's main purpose is simply to release air that is within the rubber housing when the boat is first put afloat and water enters through the stern shaft bearing.

[magnetman]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/273730847321

 

 

 

RMTA shaft seal ?

http://cheshiremarine.co.uk/page141a.html

 

 

Edited January 27, 2023 by magnetman

[Jen-in-Wellies]

6 minutes ago, David Mack said:

There is nothing to make water travel along the hose. I think it's main purpose is simply to release air that is within the rubber housing when the boat is first put afloat and water enters through the stern shaft bearing.

Could it be flow through from the prop side? I have a Volvo dripless gland and that doesn't have a hose. You get water in to it when putting the boat afloat, either the first time, or after a haul out, by "burping" the rubber lip seals at the shaft end till water comes out.

 

4 minutes ago, magnetman said:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/273730847321

 

 

Well spotted.

Edited January 27, 2023 by Jen-in-Wellies

[Tony1]

 

This is a closer pic of what looks like the filling nipple, with its duct cap thingy lifted off:

 

I'm wondering if some sort of small syringe would do the job of stuffing grease in there?

[magnetman]

In the picture from Cheshire Marine it comes with a toothpaste tube of "Pasta" presumably this means paste in Italian. I'd ring Cheshire Marine about this. 

[ditchcrawler]

Maintenance info here  radice-axial-seals-RMTA (sillette.co.uk)

[Tony1]

7 minutes ago, magnetman said:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/273730847321

 

 

 

RMTA shaft seal ?

http://cheshiremarine.co.uk/page141a.html

 

 

 

Cheers Mr M- replacing the whole seal/gland have be done when hauled out or the water could go everywhere.

But tbh, I'm hoping the seal is ok, and it just needs more grease. 

I'm a bit concerned that I may have loosened the gland seal, by standing on the prop shaft a fair bit lately. 

What's odd is that looking at it, I suspect it was ok up till I looked at it this afternoon. When I first lifted the board there was almost no water around the  bilge sump, but when I looked at it again (after doing something else in the engine bay), there was a tiny puddle.

If it had been leaking for ages, the sump and the area around it would have a lot more standing water- so I'm sure I've just kicked it off somehow. 

 

 

4 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Maintenance info here  radice-axial-seals-RMTA (sillette.co.uk)

 

 

Thanks Brian, that's really helpful.

If it needs replacing every 400 hours then its already well overdue, and it will have to be replaced again every 2 years or so. 

It looks  like a haul out job, unless, so maybe to be done when blacking.

 

[booke23]

I have a Vetus dripless stern gland which is similar to yours @Tony1. It only needs lubricating a couple of times a year but needs silicone grease not petroleum grease. I'd thoroughly research what type of grease yours needs. You will probably find the stuff the manufacturer sells for it is just silicone grease but you don't want to put the wrong stuff in there.

[Jen-in-Wellies]

The grease on these types of glands is there to prevent the rubber seals wearing too fast. It isn't there to stop water coming through, that is the job of the rubber seals. This is different from the way that a conventional gland works, where the grease is there to sort of stop the water, except for the constant drip, as well as lubricate the packing. If your gland is dripping, then adding more grease probably isn't going to fix it as the lip seals are already damaged/worn. I've seen youtube vids of people replacing the similar volvo gland in water, but you need to be quick and decisive in order not to let too much water in to the boat! Not for the faint hearted...

Edited January 27, 2023 by Jen-in-Wellies

[Tony1]

7 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

The grease on these types of glands is there to prevent the rubber seals wearing too fast. It isn't there to stop water coming through, that is the job of the rubber seals. This is different from the way that a conventional gland works, where the grease is there to sort of stop the water, except for the constant drip, as well as lubricate the packing. If your gland is dripping, then adding more grease probably isn't going to fix it as the lip seals are already damaged/worn. I've seen youtube vids of people replacing the similar volvo gland in water, but you need to be quick and decisive in order not to let too much water in to the boat! Not for the faint hearted...

 

I remember asking someone about this unusual seal not long after I got the boat (I was looking for a thing to pack with grease etc), and they said they'd heard of a local engineer who could replace these seals whilst in the water. 

If that guy can rplace it in the water, then Cheshire marine can also do it, you would think.

I'll give them a call in the morning and see what they can do. 

This is one of those jobs that I would not consider doing for a moment, if the boat is still in the water.

The seal seems to be a solid rubber tube, so I'm wondering how they actually fit that around the prop shaft?  

 

 

14 minutes ago, booke23 said:

I have a Vetus dripless stern gland which is similar to yours @Tony1. It only needs lubricating a couple of times a year but needs silicone grease not petroleum grease. I'd thoroughly research what type of grease yours needs. You will probably find the stuff the manufacturer sells for it is just silicone grease but you don't want to put the wrong stuff in there.

 

Thanks, it does actually say silicon grease on that tube, but as you say I wouldn't chance it without being sure. 

This is a job I'm leaving to the pros, so I can only hope its not too expensive. You would imagine if the replacement is done whilst in the water, it will have to be fairly quick, so not a job involving hours of expensive labour hopefully. 

 

[David Mack]

20 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

I'm a bit concerned that I may have loosened the gland seal, by standing on the prop shaft a fair bit lately. 

Unlikely I would have thought. The gland is a whole lot more flexible than the shaft, so just just moves with it if the shaft moves. I assume you haven't stood on the gland itself - that could have damaged the sealing lips.

[Tony1]

4 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Unlikely I would have thought. The gland is a whole lot more flexible than the shaft, so just just moves with it if the shaft moves. I assume you haven't stood on the gland itself - that could have damaged the sealing lips.

 

 

It's slightly out of the way so I initially doubted that idea, but in hindsight I really cant be sure.

Its so difficult sometimes to contort oneself into a certain space in the engine bay that one can't be 100% sure where one's feet are resting at times. 

And since I may have started the leak this afternoon, its seems fairly plausible that I did it by pressing a heel or foot on that seal whilst I was facing the other way.

 

Edited January 27, 2023 by Tony1

[David Mack]

4 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

You would imagine if the replacement is done whilst in the water, it will have to be fairly quick, so not a job involving hours of expensive labour hopefully. 

Replacing the gland itself may be quick, but you have to remove the coupling from the front end of the shaft first and replace it afterwards. And if there is any damage to the front part of the shaft it may need dressing in-situ first to ensure the seal isn't damaged as it is slid over the end of the shaft.

[booke23]

9 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

Thanks, it does actually say silicon grease on that tube, but as you say I wouldn't chance it without being sure. 

This is a job I'm leaving to the pros, so I can only hope its not too expensive. You would imagine if the replacement is done whilst in the water, it will have to be fairly quick, so not a job involving hours of expensive labour hopefully. 

 

 

Ah that's handy. Silicone grease it is then!

As @Jen-in-Wellies says, replacing the gland in the water is not for the feint hearted.....I wouldn't attempt it although I have heard it done after wrapping cling film or similar around the outer prop shaft and gland through the weed hatch, which drastically reduces water ingress. 

Edited January 27, 2023 by booke23

[Tony1]

1 minute ago, David Mack said:

Replacing the gland itself may be quick, but you have to remove the coupling from the front end of the shaft first and replace it afterwards. And if there is any damage to the front part of the shaft it may need dressing in-situ first to ensure the seal isn't damaged as it is slid over the end of the shaft.

 

Apologies for my ignorance on the nomenclature- so the front end of the shaft is connected to the gearbox? 

And that has to be taken off and pulled backward towards the stern by about a foot, at which point you can slide off the current seal and put on a new one?

 

 

 

[ditchcrawler]

13 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

If that guy can rplace it in the water, then Cheshire marine can also do it, you would think.

I'll give them a call in the morning and see what they can do. 

 

 

Don't be to keen to part with your money, as you first suggested it could be you disturbing it and a drop of silicon grease and a few hours running could see it dry again.

[Tony1]

13 minutes ago, booke23 said:

 

Ah that's handy. Silicone grease it is then!

As @Jen-in-Wellies says, replacing the gland in the water is not for the feint hearted.....I wouldn't attempt it although I have heard it done after wrapping cling film or similar around the outer prop shaft and gland through the weed hatch, which drastically reduces water ingress. 

 

Well, the grease is labelled 'special silicone grease', but its not a call I'll be making, this is one for the pros. 

The problem I can see with the cling film idea is that you have to pull the prop shaft away from the gearbox in order to slide the old seal off, right? 

So the cling film will actually be pulled away from the stern tube hole....?

I'll be interested to see how  Cheshire Marine feel about doing it whilst in the water- maybe they'll be more risk averse than the local engineer guy I heard of.  

 

ETA- Oh I see, you would pull away the prop shaft, and then quickly replace the cling film so its forms a seal again....?

I'm far too faint hearted and incompetent for that kind of job. 

 

 

Edited January 27, 2023 by Tony1

[Tony1]

Just now, ditchcrawler said:

Don't be to keen to part with your money, as you first suggested it could be you disturbing it and a drop of silicon grease and a few hours running could see it dry again.

 

Its a bit of a bummer I must admit, and I'd be surprised if there's much change out of £400, but the maintenance guide does say to replace the seal every 400 hours, and its had more than twice that since I got it, so it might be best getting it replaced anyway. 

I'm wondering whether to see if I can stuff in some grease, and, maybe gently manipulate the lips of the seal, so see if help close the leak that I seem to have just started. 

If it can wait till July that would be much better, I think I'd prefer to get it done when hauled out. 

 

[David Mack]

A drip every 3 or 4 seconds doesn't actually amount to very much water over a few weeks. I would be inclined to grease your existing gland then see how it performs. As long as the drip rate doesn't increase significantly I don't think replacement is urgent.

[ditchcrawler]

[Tony1]

12 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

 

Thanks Brian- unfortunately they seem to have sold out- but that said, I'll see if Cheshire Marine (at Nantwich) are selling it separately from the full kit including the seal. Or they may know of a safe alternative, since they seem to be very keen on using these seals, according to their website.

I'm near Whitchurch so its a short train ride to Nantwich anyway, if they'll sell it.

As you say, its definitely worth trying some grease, even if as an interim measure till the summer.