Small or big first boat for live aboard?

[MtB]

6 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

He has said he will be working from 'home' (boat) and will be 'moving the minimum required' so one must assume that he will be 100% 'of-grid' and CCing. 

 

I reckon he is a she. 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, MtB said:

 

I reckon he is a she. 

 

 

If correct, a 24 footer is possibly going to be even harder to live with.

[MtB]

6 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

You get an 8 year old Honda engine with 360 hours

 

May I respectfully point of Honda outboards tend not to be ideal for charging domestic battery banks in winter? 

 

Let alone a decent liFePO4 set up! 

 

 

[RichM]

 

20 hours ago, bluelapsing said:

I'm pretty much settled on the wisdom of biding my time and buying the best boat possible first-time round.

 

Forgot to comment on this bit. While it's commendable that you're doing your research (many people don't!) it's worth saying that your first boat probably won't be your most ideal boat. Unfortunately it's likely you won't know what your ideal boat is until you've lived on one and even then your requirements could change over time and the goal-posts could move.

 

I'd recommend finding the best boat you can that ticks most of your boxes within your budget. 

[Alan de Enfield]

8 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

May I respectfully point of Honda outboards tend not to be ideal for charging domestic battery banks in winter? 

 

 

 

Well worth repeating in BOLD, but amend to read :

 

Outboards will not keep a domestic battery charged sufficiently for liveaboard use.

 

Mind you if you are only moving 1km per 14 days, not a lot will (except a generator)

Edited January 15, 2023 by Alan de Enfield

[Tony Brooks]

3 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

May I respectfully point of Honda outboards tend not to be ideal for charging domestic battery banks in winter? 

 

Let alone a decent liFePO4 set up! 

 

 

 

Even solar on such a small roof area is going to be of limited output in the summer and all but nothing for the winter.

 

I think power may well turn out to be the largest problem for the OP unless they moor in a marina with shore power. If working from the boat means computers I think a lot more consideration of how to met the power needs is urgent.

[Tony1]

1 minute ago, MtB said:

 

May I respectfully point of Honda outboards tend not to be ideal for charging domestic battery banks in winter? 

 

Let alone a decent liFePO4 set up! 

 

 

 

No you may not Sir, how dare you crush my dreams with your cold blooded reality. 

But wait- all is not lost.

On my travels recently I've seen a few of these outboards on GRP cruisers acting as gennies.

So there must be a clever (and affordable) wiring/eclectrickery solution that allows them to create a half decent charge. 

But there is also the option of an actual genny for a few hundred quid that would do the job, and for the summer you could some solar panels. 

On a 20k narrowboat your budget for solar panels and a genny would already be blown by day three, because the batteries would be goosed and the alternator would probably blow up, if the head gasket didn't go first. 

There will be some decent ones out there, but my guess is that most will need a lot of time and money.

 

 

[Tony Brooks]

3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Well worth repeating in BOLD, but amend to read :

 

Outboards will not keep a domestic battery charged sufficiently for liveaboard use.

 

Mind you if you are only moving 1km per 14 days, not a lot will (except a generator)

 

and on such a small boat that is a bit more kit to be securely stored, and if it is  a petrol generator, which is most likely, there are the problems of storing petrol

[bluelapsing]

Evening all, 

 

After a brisk walk and good think, and having read all the new comments since the time I left (the rockiness of a smaller boat, more pronounced issues of power generation/storage, and of storage in general) I think I'll give this one a miss. I would've gone down to view this week having not considered any of these things in enough details, so you've collectively saved me 1) a long journey, and 2) a pile of cash that could otherwise been wasted. 

 

I think I'll take the patient approach, hold out for a boat I love around the 40k mark and accept that living aboard, whether in a marina or CCing, will entail significant sacrifice/compromise and resilience. The more prepared I am the better. 

 

In hindsight not a very interesting question for you guys to answer, but a really valuable one for me to hear the answers to.

 

Thanks again for taking the time out of your weekend - what a lovely forum to have stumbled upon! 

Edited January 15, 2023 by bluelapsing

[Alan de Enfield]

7 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

On my travels recently I've seen a few of these outboards on GRP cruisers acting as gennies.

 

 

Interesting - from the Honda engine specifications :

 

The BF8 and 9.9 provide 2 Amps at 1000 RPM

 

You can generate more than that ................................... (but you'd have to set the bike up on the towpath - no room in a 24 foot boat).

 

 

 

Edited January 15, 2023 by Alan de Enfield

[MtB]

2 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

On my travels recently I've seen a few of these outboards on GRP cruisers acting as gennies.

 

This seems highly unlikely!

 

More probably, technical incompetents running the outboard at all hours because it only charges at 4 amps, their batteries are perpetually flat and they are kings of wishful thinking. 

 

 

[Tony1]

1 minute ago, MtB said:

 

This seems highly unlikely!

 

More probably, technical incompetents running the outboard at all hours because it only charges at 4 amps, their batteries are perpetually flat and they are kings of wishful thinking. 

 

 

 

To be fair, I didnt look at the manufacturer name so it could have been anything- but a guy two boats up was running his outboard whilst moored up yesterday, which was the only reason it caught my attention.

And it wasnt running for ages either. And also, it was fairly quiet compared to a genny. And I saw someone else doing it with an outboard a month or two ago. 

It is a thing- I dont know how they do it- I can only guess there is some kind of alteration you can do with some outboards in order to create more charge from them. 

But either way, in reality a genny is what you'd use anyway. 

Also, the OP has just said they have a 40k budget, so actually they can get a pretty decent narrowboat anyway, and there's no need to worry about compromising with a viking 32cc.

 

10 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

Interesting - from the Honda engine specifications :

 

The BF8 and 9.9 provide 2 Amps at 1000 RPM

 

 

 

I dont know if the one I saw was a Honda, but I bet there is a clever electrical alteration that can be made to get more charge from say a 15-20hp outboard. 

But tbh, why bother- you would just buy a decent genny. 

 

[Tony Brooks]

I think modern outboards of moderate power do have higher output generators that the older models but I would not like to try CCing and working form the boat with one.

[ditchcrawler]

20 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

I think modern outboards of moderate power do have higher output generators that the older models but I would not like to try CCing and working form the boat with one.

They will recharge the batteries quite happily if you never use any power.😁

[Tony1]

11 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

They will recharge the batteries quite happily if you never use any power.😁

 

Come on lads, take it easy on me here 😁

[Alan de Enfield]

58 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

 

Come on lads, take it easy on me here 😁

 

I think if there was the slightest possibility of getting (say) 70 amps from a 2 amp alternator boaters would be 'all over it'.

 

Wishing it was possible doesn't not make it happen.

[Tony Brooks]

8 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

They will recharge the batteries quite happily if you never use any power.😁

 

True, but the 7amps maximum it seems most of us are used to nowadays is closer to 20 on some models. I am talking about sub 30HP outboards. Even so, I agree, not enough for comfortable living and working off grid.

[magnetman]

If the only thing you were using on the boat was a laptop computer and maybe some very low wattage LED lights you could argue that an outboard motor is an ideal way to power the boat electric system. They are very economical on fuel and have a charging coil. My honda 10 on the shopping launch has a 12 amp coil. They are also often electric start from the helm and extremely quiet when running at tickover. 

 

So what you do is have one good battery and small inverter. When you want to use the computer you can start the outboard which charges the battery "just enough". Outboard motor at tickover is MUCH more sociable than a generator and it does not take up any extra space. Electric start and you don't have to put it out on the towpath for some [non specific individual] to steal. Long range fuel tank so less frequent refuelling. 

 

I think it could be a very nice solution for the darker months then use solar in summer. This is for a low consumer with defined periods of laptop computer usage. 

 

In reality for low consumer use you just need a small charging output and a single good quality battery. If you get a battery which is light enough to put in a rucksack with a charger there are charging options at cafes and some other places. 

 

Whatever size battery bank you have it sill needs to be charged up. You could get a hyper-efficient setup with an outboard motor running at tickover. Really interesting option actually. 

 

Edited January 16, 2023 by magnetman

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

True, but the 7amps maximum it seems most of us are used to nowadays is closer to 20 on some models. I am talking about sub 30HP outboards. Even so, I agree, not enough for comfortable living and working off grid.

 

The Typical Honda 9.9 found on most canal boat (fitted with an outboard) is, as I quoted above 2 amps at 1000 rpm but if you take it up to 3000rpm will give 12 amps - but who wants to sit next to the sound of a 'screaming strimmer' for ours on end.

[magnetman]

Ideal then. 

 

 

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30 watts through an 80% efficient conversion like an inverter or car adapter is probably about 3 amps at 13vdc isn't it? 

 

You could more or less run the laptop direct off the ticking over outboard motor. Might not even need a battery. I think a power bank like the Fox Halo LFP type might do it as they have 12v cigarette lighter sockets. 

 

This also adds portability. 

 

The clue is that the outboard motor is producing the power to run the device rather than to accumulate charge in the battery. 

 

This is assuming very little other power usage on the boat. My interior lights are a set of LED copper wire Christmas lights which uses 3 watts for 10m length and lights up the whole cabin. 

 

It depends what people want but it is possible to get power use right down. 

Edited January 16, 2023 by magnetman

[Tony1]

2 hours ago, magnetman said:

If the only thing you were using on the boat was a laptop computer and maybe some very low wattage LED lights you could argue that an outboard motor is an ideal way to power the boat electric system. They are very economical on fuel and have a charging coil. My honda 10 on the shopping launch has a 12 amp coil. They are also often electric start from the helm and extremely quiet when running at tickover. 

 

So what you do is have one good battery and small inverter. When you want to use the computer you can start the outboard which charges the battery "just enough". Outboard motor at tickover is MUCH more sociable than a generator and it does not take up any extra space. Electric start and you don't have to put it out on the towpath for some [non specific individual] to steal. Long range fuel tank so less frequent refuelling. 

 

I think it could be a very nice solution for the darker months then use solar in summer. This is for a low consumer with defined periods of laptop computer usage. 

 

In reality for low consumer use you just need a small charging output and a single good quality battery. If you get a battery which is light enough to put in a rucksack with a charger there are charging options at cafes and some other places. 

 

Whatever size battery bank you have it sill needs to be charged up. You could get a hyper-efficient setup with an outboard motor running at tickover. Really interesting option actually. 

 

 

I think if I had to live on a 30ft GRP with an outboard, I would appreciate getting as much charge from it as possible during a day's cruising, but if I were moored up for a few days I would definitely prefer a genny for charging. 

A 15 or 20hp outboard costs a few thousand quid, whereas a genny is a few hundred- so why waste loads of engine running hours with an expensive outboard just to recharge batteries, when you can wear out a cheap genny instead?

I've had some similar thoughts about running my engine for charging during the winter, but since I only use it for charging in about 3-4 months of the year, I'm carrying on for now. But personally, I regard gennies as a good way of saving wear and tear on the boat's engine, and that would include outboards.