Lister petter Lpws3 exhaust spitting/ leak

[Tgno3]

Hello have been following threads on here for a while and can’t really find on here the problem I have been experiencing.

I have a LP Lpws3 on my trad narrowboat and am a continuous cruiser.

I use my engine for heating the water and run the engine every other day to do so, as well as my usual moving around.

Problem began about a month ago I noticed a drip coming from the exhaust when I revved quite high on the move under load, the slick to me looks like oily rather than diesel. But when the engine is at temp it spits it out quite far out of the exhaust. I have no smoking unless I rev nearly full throttle or swing her backwards, the smoke is white. It never done it idle but now when I rev the engine up in neutral once up to temp it does the exact same thing spitting from the exhaust!

 

on top of this I’ve had a small oil leak in the bilge which has gotten worse as well as coolant leak. It’s not a huge amount of liquid but enough to be worrying that something is wrong. An engineer came out to diagnose and said I needed to put a new seal ring on the banjo bolt/ get a new cap for the water tank and change my oil from 10w/40 to 15w/40. He did also say not to worry about what’s coming out of the exhaust and that it just needs a good clear out.  

I have got a new cap for the water and it’s been better but the bolt which holds the tank in now missing in the bilge (will find when I’ve cleared it out) 

 

my question is are all of these problems linked, is it as simple as just needing to blasting out the crud in the exhaust pipe or am I burning oil for some reason? Did the water tank bolt come loose because of vibration / or getting too hot ?

And does the sealant ring have anything to do with the exhaust throwing out oil/ crud 

 

I am quite neurotic on making sure everything has been checked / topped up.

Im fully aware these weren’t lister best made engines! 

 

Any advice would be appreciated !

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 2, 2023 by Tgarrett94

[Alan de Enfield]

11 minutes ago, Tgarrett94 said:

my question is are all of these problems linked

 

I'd say - YES and probably all down to lack of maintenance.

 

I have the workshop manual for the LPWS engines and if you would like a copy, send me a message with your email and I'll forward it to you.

 

The LPWS engines (when well maintained and serviced every 100 hours are superb engines - mine had done well over 10,000 hours and never used (or lost) a drop of oil. When we bought the boat the bottom of the engine bilge was covered in white kitchen roll and it never ever showed a 'spot' of anything between services.

 

I rate them VERY VERY highly, but they are not just "use and forget" engines, you have to give something back.

 

Edit to add : I also have the operators manual, detailed specifications and full part number list of every component if you would like them.

Edited January 2, 2023 by Alan de Enfield

[Tgno3]

Hi, that was a quick reply ! Thanku.

would be great to get a manual from you.

I bought her a year ago and things are starting to come out of the woodwork, I just want to get on top of it all, I just really lack any experience with knowing the signs on engine ! 
V happy to give her the love and attention/ money she needs I just want make sure I’m doin all the right things ! 

[Tracy D'arth]

It sounds like it could be misfiring on one cylinder.

14 minutes ago, Tgarrett94 said:

 

 

 

 

or swing her backwards,

 

 

 

the smoke is white. It never done it idle but now when I rev the engine up in neutral once up to temp it does the exact same thing spitting from the exhaust!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Explain "swing her backwards" please

[Tgno3]

Sorry just meant put in reverse

[Tracy D'arth]

2 minutes ago, Tgarrett94 said:

Sorry just meant put in reverse

Selecting reverse makes no difference to the engine.

Edited January 2, 2023 by Tracy D'arth

[Tgno3]

Ok- what would be the cause for the misfiring ? Apologies for my lack of knowledge 

[Alan de Enfield]

11 minutes ago, Tgarrett94 said:

Hi, that was a quick reply ! Thanku.

would be great to get a manual from you.

I bought her a year ago and things are starting to come out of the woodwork, I just want to get on top of it all, I just really lack any experience with knowing the signs on engine ! 
V happy to give her the love and attention/ money she needs I just want make sure I’m doin all the right things ! 

 

Have you actually done any engine servicing in the last year ?

Have you changed the oil - it should be done every 100 hours (depending on the filter and oil pan fitted). With the LPWS serious things can start to happen if you are even just a 'few' hours overdue.

 

 

Edited January 2, 2023 by Alan de Enfield

[Tracy D'arth]

Just now, Tgarrett94 said:

Ok- what would be the cause for the misfiring ? Apologies for my lack of knowledge 

On one cylinder,

 

Loss of compression, valves or piston. Have the tappets been checked/set?

blocked/damaged injector,

Fuel leak,

Injector pump.

 

[Tgno3]

Service done in august/ inc oil change. All filters were changed

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, Tgarrett94 said:

Service done in august/ inc oil change. All filters were changed

 

As a CCer how many engine hours are you doing ?

 

We had to do an oil / filter change roughly every 4-6 weeks

[David Mack]

If you've run the engine every other day since August then your next 100 hour oil change is probably overdue.

[Tgno3]

Apx under 20hrs per 2 wks in total.

Edited January 2, 2023 by Tgarrett94

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, David Mack said:

If you've run the engine every other day since August then your next 100 hour oil change is probably overdue.

 

Unless he has a lot of solar he may need to run the engine for some considerable time - the oft quoted - 4 hours a day would mean an oil change every 25 days.

[Tgno3]

Ok better get to it then! Thanks for all the info 

[Alan de Enfield]

3 minutes ago, Tgarrett94 said:

Apx under 20hrs per wk in total.

 

So you MUST do an oil . filter change every 5 weeks .

 

I know of a couple of people who went to around 150 hours and their engines 'blew up' and were seriously damaged involving £1000s of work and parts. I know of no other engine that is a critical to the oil changes as the LPWS series.

Edited January 2, 2023 by Alan de Enfield

[David Mack]

White smoke can be caused by unburned diesel or water in the exhaust. If it doesn't clear pretty quickly after starting the engine that could be indicative of injector problems or a failed head gasket. Either way it needs looking at by someone who knows what they are doing.

[Tgno3]

I have an engineer coming in next few days. Might be good to get a second opinion tho- any recommendations for engineers that will come east London (I know) 

[Tgno3]

48 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I'd say - YES and probably all down to lack of maintenance.

 

I have the workshop manual for the LPWS engines and if you would like a copy, send me a message with your email and I'll forward it to you.

 

The LPWS engines (when well maintained and serviced every 100 hours are superb engines - mine had done well over 10,000 hours and never used (or lost) a drop of oil. When we bought the boat the bottom of the engine bilge was covered in white kitchen roll and it never ever showed a 'spot' of anything between services.

 

I rate them VERY VERY highly, but they are not just "use and forget" engines, you have to give something back.

 

Edit to add : I also have the operators manual, detailed specifications and full part number list of every component if you would like them.

Hi as not done enough posts on here I can’t access/ send PMs. Would be very useful 

[Tgno3]

53 minutes ago, David Mack said:

White smoke can be caused by unburned diesel or water in the exhaust. If it doesn't clear pretty quickly after starting the engine that could be indicative of injector problems or a failed head gasket. Either way it needs looking at by someone who knows what they are doing.

The smoke is not constant it’s only ever when I rev quite high but yes agreed will get someone out who knows what they are doing, cheers

[Tony Brooks]

I think these engines may use hydraulic valve lifters and if the engine oil changes have not been done diligently they could be causing poor combustion during acceleration and exhaust smoke. otherwise I would suspect an injector.

 

I can't see anything in your original post that indicates misfire, it suddenly popped up later. What are the symptoms of this supposed misfire?

 

If it is misfiring then the vibrations could cause a bolt to work loose, but I have no idea what you are calling "the water tank" or where this bolt came from so can't help. Photos are easier than words.

 

What "banjo bolt? Please be specific or post an annotated photo so we can see what you are talking about.

 

Now the coolant leak. How full are you filling the header tank? On a skin tank cooled boat you need a considerable air gap above the coolant. If you fill to the brim it will overflow as the engine warms up and a new filler cap can not stop that. The leaking coolant will collect in the drip tray with any oil or fuel floating on top, so your supposed oil leak might just be the coolant leak. Fill the header tank to the brim just once, run up to normal temperature, allow to cool right down, note the level in the header tank - that is the correct topping up lever.

 

If there is air or gas in the skin tank it will    cause even more coolant to be ejected from the header tank, so try venting your  skin tank, just in case.

 

 

PS, at this stage I would not dwell on a possible head gasket failure, but maybe much later after more checks.

 

 

Edited January 2, 2023 by Tony Brooks

[Peugeot 106]

I’m assuming that you have skin tank cooling and not raw water cooling. The exhaust manifold will probably look like my photo although there are some specifically for skin tank cooling without the slot. 

For skin tank cooling the slot is covered by a full gasket stopping water coming out of the slot and into the exhaust. The water instead exits via an elbow in the top of the manifold into the skin tank. If this full gasket fails you will get coolant leaking into the exhaust (and also into the cylinders). (For raw water cooling the coolant comes out of the slot and is “injected” into the exhaust so the manifold with slot is used for both methods of cooling). This would explain the spitting from the exhaust (as would water that has leaked into the exhaust) the oil is probably out of the exhaust it can be yukky inside it! You can buy new gaskets from Sleeman Hawkenbut specify the one without the slot! I think it could be a good idea to prevent reoccurrence with a metal plate as well as the gasket. This is a known problem with these engines and can cause terminal damage if left. 

A bit of black smoke if you change revs quickly is quite normal caused by temporary over fuelling. 

I think the oil leak is probably a separate issue but you need to attend to the manifold gasket promptly to avoid damage if that is the issue

Hope this helps. I have had issues with oil leaks on my LPWS2 and can probably help in the future but fix the water first!

 

 

 

[Tony Brooks]

4 minutes ago, Peugeot 106 said:

I’m assuming that you have skin tank cooling and not raw water cooling. The exhaust manifold will probably look like my photo although there are some specifically for skin tank cooling without the slot. 

For skin tank cooling the slot is covered by a full gasket stopping water coming out of the slot and into the exhaust. The water instead exits via an elbow in the top of the manifold into the skin tank. If this full gasket fails you will get coolant leaking into the exhaust (and also into the cylinders). (For raw water cooling the coolant comes out of the slot and is “injected” into the exhaust so the manifold with slot is used for both methods of cooling). This would explain the spitting from the exhaust (as would water that has leaked into the exhaust) the oil is probably out of the exhaust it can be yukky inside it! You can buy new gaskets from Sleeman Hawkenbut specify the one without the slot! I think it could be a good idea to prevent reoccurrence with a metal plate as well as the gasket. This is a known problem with these engines and can cause terminal damage if left. 

A bit of black smoke if you change revs quickly is quite normal caused by temporary over fuelling. 

I think the oil leak is probably a separate issue but you need to attend to the manifold gasket promptly to avoid damage if that is the issue

Hope this helps. I have had issues with oil leaks on my LPWS2 and can probably help in the future but fix the water first!

 

 

 

 

Not saying you are wrong but I think the canal version of those engines used a plastic header tank with a plastic pressure cap on them. That is why I have asked for clarification/photos. I have no real idea what he means by "the water tank".

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

Not saying you are wrong but I think the canal version of those engines used a plastic header tank with a plastic pressure cap on them. That is why I have asked for clarification/photos. I have no real idea what he means by "the water tank".

 

My LPWS4 with plastic header tank

 

 

 

[Tony Brooks]

I think that is normal so this lost bolt the OP talks about. Maybe it is one securing the plastic header tank into place, but won't know wiothout kmore info.

 

Incidently, is your pressure cap a traditional metal radiator cap or one of the modern automotive black plastic ones with a pressure inset?