Old Age

[Yoda]

The biggest problem with age is mobility. If you 've got that sorted, life will be great on board.

[jelunga]

The biggest problem with age is mobility. If you 've got that sorted, life will be great on board.

I am intending that the boat should have a bow like NB Belle, designed with part of the gunwale detachable and with a loading ramp. Initially for a motorcycle, then eventually for a Zimmer frame and mobility scooter!

I have also seen a report of a NB being built with joystick control through hydraulic ram steering. Then all you need is an automatic mooring system and you have the perfect retirement home!

 

Seriously, some of the problems of old age are just the same as living in a house, except no stairs! I have planned for a boat that is "old age" proof as much as possible, but you will still have the same problems in a house.

 

Maybe I should start a marina with "sheltered" moorings and have a "retirement" marina? But then there would probably be some busy body telling me that I was too old to take my boat out for a cruise, and I am not having that.

 

Thank you all for your contributions to this topic. I see it has brought many interesting comments in a short time.

[Yoda]

I am intending that the boat should have a bow like NB Belle, designed with part of the gunwale detachable and with a loading ramp. Initially for a motorcycle, then eventually for a Zimmer frame and mobility scooter!

I have also seen a report of a NB being built with joystick control through hydraulic ram steering. Then all you need is an automatic mooring system and you have the perfect retirement home!

 

Seriously, some of the problems of old age are just the same as living in a house, except no stairs! I have planned for a boat that is "old age" proof as much as possible, but you will still have the same problems in a house.

 

Maybe I should start a marina with "sheltered" moorings and have a "retirement" marina? But then there would probably be some busy body telling me that I was too old to take my boat out for a cruise, and I am not having that.

 

Thank you all for your contributions to this topic. I see it has brought many interesting comments in a short time.

 

How wrong. That is the problem with narrow boats, You have got stairs both ends on most and they are steep. The only solution to stairs is a hydraulic lift which alot of boats are fitted with.

Edited December 2, 2007 by Yoda

[tillergirl]

Can't see what the big deal is about keeping a house. We plan to sell up and continous cruise for a few years. No intention of :

 

1) either leaving a property for the kids to fall out over

 

or more importantly

 

2) having a property that we have to sell if we want to live in a residential home.

 

Of course if you've been mortgage free for years ( which we aren't) then you've probably got another choice. You can't take the money with you so you may as well enjoy it while you can. The only people who have security in your property are your offspring or the government if you have no children...................

Edited December 2, 2007 by tillergirl

[debbifiggy]

I've never owned bricks & mortar, so for me living on a boat didn't involve giving up or selling anything. Although it could be argued that my money would have been better invested in a house or a flat, and that the cost of many land-based mortgages may have actually worked out cheaper that the cost of a London mooring, conversely from my perspective, the idea of either struggling with a lifetime of mortgage debt or have the house repossessed seems like the mad option. I have no kids, am completely debt free and live my life as I want, but I do sometimes wonder what happens when you're no longer fit enough to lift a bag of coal...

Or empty the loo, change a gas bottle, operate a lock ....It's not just old age but illness and accident at any age that can cause major problems. How do you fill up an empty water tank as you've run out of water and are too ill to get out of bed and your mobile phone is flat and you can't get up to start the engine to charge your boat batteries and charge your mobile at the same time? How do you moor up your boat if you've twisted your ankle so badly that its now the size of a balloon and you are single handing? How do you do anything when you've burst a disc in your back and literally cannot move for weeks.Fortunately the canal community generally look out for each other and help but the effects of illness and accident on the liveaboard life is not one many consider properly before selling the house (if you are lucky enough to have one to start with).Sorry, don't mean to be gloomy but have personally found on occasions that life afloat can be challenging. Still, this is my 8th winter aboard so it can't be all bad.D

Yes, the big attraction for us is the lack of ties to house, mortgage, and the conventional world.Thanks for your comments. We can onl;y afford one or the other. The plot is that half the money from the house sale will pay for a boat, the other half to create enough interest to ensure we can afford to maintain it. Our pensions should pay for all of our daily expenses and running costs. Roll on 2009 !!!!Glad we are not the only potential lunatics. I am just fed up with the conventional world of take take buy buy acquire acquire. I am more than happy to stop work, take a lower income, but escape from the pressure and stree of today. So selling the house does not frighten me - we can always live in our caravan for a year if we have to - this will then lets us appreciate the "space" of a narrow boat!!#My view totally. The longer I leave it the less time we will have to see everywhere. Could take years!

Are you planning to cruise on BW waters? If so have you factored in the likely cost increases of licence and moorings? Expect at least 30% in real terms over the next 3 years and possibly more to come. Very difficult if you are on a fixed income as some of our friends are discovering.D

[tillergirl]

Do you not think though that if you are not going to use the boat it just becomes a very expensive floating caravan? And with regards to age and infirmity the same can be said for a house - stairs become a problem just the same.

[bottle]

Hi

 

None of us know what the future holds, I thought that I would work till 'normal' retirement age but 'stress at work' (simple phrase and often over used) had other ideas.

 

I was lucky (self made) in the fact that my mortgage was finished, we had planned to live aboard on 'normal' retirement but re-assessing our position decided to go for it early.

 

That is what we are doing should be on board next year.

 

As I said before we may be mad, thought that was a required qualification anyway.

 

We have no way back but that is a spur to making it work. (I know Steve [Anhar])

 

We could have stayed in our bungalow, with twenty steps to the front door, very good neighbours [7 households], all older than us, that when they found out what we were doing, everyone of them said go for it and wished they had done something similar.

 

We are doing the same as jelunga, house sale will fund boat purchase leaving some to invest and pension for living costs, I know costs are going to rise but those costs would have risen if we had stayed.

[Dr Bradley]

I to am selling up to sail. No dependants and a smallish mortgage (though it was a fairly large proportion of my income). So the equity of the house will buy the boat and pay the running costs until my pensions kick in in a few years. I have also been able to give up work.

 

The alternative would have been to carry on working for anther ten years, by which time the mortgage woud have been paid and I'd be living in a substantial asset - but would I still be fit to live the life I want to. Or dead and leaving that asset to the government.

 

Though pensions will not be large, they will be enough to live on in a way that satisfies me. If I'm unfit to boat then I'll rent a flat or (please no!) live in a home.

 

Live for now for tomorrow may not happen.

[chris w]

The plot is that half the money from the house sale will pay for a boat, the other half to create enough interest to ensure we can afford to maintain it. Our pensions should pay for all of our daily expenses and running costs. Roll on 2009

 

Even assuming your boat costs £100K and that represents half your house sale, you will only receive around £5K interest per annum on the other half. Deducting inflation from this will give a net return of maybe 1 or 2% per annum. Is that really enough to live on and maintain the boat? I don't think so. So ultimately your capital reserves will be drained too.

 

Meanwhile, on the capital "invested" in the boat, you are losing another £5K of potential interest per annum on the money you can't invest (because it bought the boat) plus the depreciation on the boat (at least another 5% per annum) plus the depreciation of the purchasing power of your boat capital (ie: general inflation) should you ever sell up (another 5% per annum).

 

Overall, it has to be a mad decision from a financial standpoint when, in reality, you have so little capital available. And that capital may have to last another 30 years. What happens if one of you dies? Would you want to stay on the boat and work it yourself? In addition, pension annuities are only around 6%. Have you really assessed how much you will really have and the longer term financial consequences once you look beyond the "dream"?

 

Chris

Edited December 4, 2007 by chris w

[bottle]

Hi Chris

 

If you read my post you will see that I am doing exactly the same as jelunga,

 

I look at this way the cost of the boat is money thrown away it will never come back, the balance will be invested in a safe savings account (this willl be watched to maintain the highest interest possible).

 

I will have a private pension, state pension (wifes now and mine in six years), I realise that my net income will probably reduce over the next few years but it would do that anyway if I lived in a house.

 

Sometimes you have to go with the dream.

 

If one of us dies, again this will happen no matter where we are, the one left will deal with it like so many people before us.

 

Live long and prosper, depends how you define prosper

[valrene9600]

Mad here too, no mortgage for the first time in 20 years is very liberating !

 

 

You seemed as sane as me when we met or perhaps we`re both mad.

[giggsyrio]

Hi its me again I have R H and i,m not that old, but we are joining you lot of nutters

on the cut in May 2008, My way of looking at things is I would rather be bed ridden

watching the ducks swim by than be stuckl in some miserable old house in a miserable old street watching Trisha or Jeremy kyle, but until that happens I,ll be livin it up house or not.

 

I'm mad too

[NB Alnwick]

Since joining this forum we have completly changed our views on selling up and living aboard. We bought 'Alnwick' when we sold our house and business - we looked at various investment options and eventually decided to buy an inexpensive house.

 

We still live on the boat but the advantages of owning a house as well are enormous - it provides a safe and dry environment for keeping various items that we do not need on board and a garage for our car.

 

It is our own private laundrette - so we do not need to install a washing machine and dryer on our boat - we just have a small spin dryer and hand wash the small essentials in the sink.

 

We are fortunate in the fact that we bought a house with an excellent bus to our mooring (and as an over 60 I travel free) and also to two convenient railway stations as well as Braunston which must be the heart of the canal network!

 

It provides a permanent and respectable address.

 

It is an investment - We negotiated a fixed price mortgage with our bank at an incredibly low rate and the same bank is now offering a higher interest on our savings - so we benefit twice over.

 

Finally, this year has been difficult for us because a close friend died unexpectedly and left us to manage his estate - it was a very complicated business and we just could not have coped without a permanent address to receive mail, a broadband connection and space to store his personal effects while we sorted through them. During this difficult time the boat provided a getaway bolthole where we could leave these worries behind us . . .

 

Whilst we admire anyone who has sold everything to buy a boat, we would strongly advise that they find a way of buying an inexpensive property so that they can enjoy the advantages of both worlds and the sad fact is that if you cannot afford to do that, in reality, you probably cannot afford to live on a boat . . .

[BlueStringPudding]

... the sad fact is that if you cannot afford to do that, in reality, you probably cannot afford to live on a boat . . .

 

Why do you say that?

[Dave45]

Since joining this forum we have completly changed our views on selling up and living aboard. We bought 'Alnwick' when we sold our house and business - we looked at various investment options and eventually decided to buy an inexpensive house.

 

We still live on the boat but the advantages of owning a house as well are enormous - it provides a safe and dry environment for keeping various items that we do not need on board and a garage for our car.

 

It is our own private laundrette - so we do not need to install a washing machine and dryer on our boat - we just have a small spin dryer and hand wash the small essentials in the sink.

 

We are fortunate in the fact that we bought a house with an excellent bus to our mooring (and as an over 60 I travel free) and also to two convenient railway stations as well as Braunston which must be the heart of the canal network!

 

It provides a permanent and respectable address.

 

It is an investment - We negotiated a fixed price mortgage with our bank at an incredibly low rate and the same bank is now offering a higher interest on our savings - so we benefit twice over.

 

Finally, this year has been difficult for us because a close friend died unexpectedly and left us to manage his estate - it was a very complicated business and we just could not have coped without a permanent address to receive mail, a broadband connection and space to store his personal effects while we sorted through them. During this difficult time the boat provided a getaway bolthole where we could leave these worries behind us . . .

 

Whilst we admire anyone who has sold everything to buy a boat, we would strongly advise that they find a way of buying an inexpensive property so that they can enjoy the advantages of both worlds and the sad fact is that if you cannot afford to do that, in reality, you probably cannot afford to live on a boat . . .

hmmmm....respectable...never thought of that lol

[Pav]

Since joining this forum we have completly changed our views on selling up and living aboard. We bought 'Alnwick' when we sold our house and business - we looked at various investment options and eventually decided to buy an inexpensive house.

 

We still live on the boat but the advantages of owning a house as well are enormous - it provides a safe and dry environment for keeping various items that we do not need on board and a garage for our car.

 

It is our own private laundrette - so we do not need to install a washing machine and dryer on our boat - we just have a small spin dryer and hand wash the small essentials in the sink.

 

We are fortunate in the fact that we bought a house with an excellent bus to our mooring (and as an over 60 I travel free) and also to two convenient railway stations as well as Braunston which must be the heart of the canal network!

 

It provides a permanent and respectable address.

 

It is an investment - We negotiated a fixed price mortgage with our bank at an incredibly low rate and the same bank is now offering a higher interest on our savings - so we benefit twice over.

 

Finally, this year has been difficult for us because a close friend died unexpectedly and left us to manage his estate - it was a very complicated business and we just could not have coped without a permanent address to receive mail, a broadband connection and space to store his personal effects while we sorted through them. During this difficult time the boat provided a getaway bolthole where we could leave these worries behind us . . .

 

Whilst we admire anyone who has sold everything to buy a boat, we would strongly advise that they find a way of buying an inexpensive property so that they can enjoy the advantages of both worlds and the sad fact is that if you cannot afford to do that, in reality, you probably cannot afford to live on a boat . . .

 

Hi ,

 

I just do not agree with these views, but appreciate they are yours and respect them.

 

I would no way wish to purchase a property, all be it an inexpensive one, just to provide a postal address, a place to do our washing, and so that I could get broadband speed connection etc.

 

To leave a property vacant for what in our case will be long periods of time whilst we are cruising, may be asking for trouble, perhaps more so depending on the area. On top of that, you still have all the associated costs of home ownership,including in your case, a mortgage, no matter how low the rate you have it at.

 

The additional costs of owning this ''permanent and respectable address''would without doubt, use up a fair proportion of money which we can benefit from now.

 

As for buying a property as an investment. At this particular time..........No, I don't think this can be rellied on.

 

Everyone is different, but we have just sold our house and pleased to have done so. We can not wait to get onto Marmaduke and start to enjoy life, travelling about, and generally enjoying the experiances which will come with living on the water and meeting people, rather than staying on land and worrying about maintaing the property, paying a mortgage and having concerns over the bursting of the house market bubble.

 

Regards,

Pav.

[NB Alnwick]

Why do you say that?

 

Our own experience is that real boating costs have significantly exceeded our expectations and whereas unforseen calamities in a house can be covered by inexpensive insurance this is not the case with a boat.

[chris w]

As for buying a property as an investment. At this particular time..........No, I don't think this can be rellied on.

 

Regards,

Pav.

 

Well, although past history is no guarantee of future trends, it is a good guide and property has been amongst the very best and consistent of all possible investments. Every few years there is a blip as the market adjusts to what first-time buyers can afford, but they are very short term blips. Long-term, you're going to have extremely good real-term returns.

 

Chris

[Dave45]

Hi ,

 

I just do not agree with these views, but appreciate they are yours and respect them.

 

I would no way wish to purchase a property, all be it an inexpensive one, just to provide a postal address, a place to do our washing, and so that I could get broadband speed connection etc.

 

To leave a property vacant for what in our case will be long periods of time whilst we are cruising, may be asking for trouble, perhaps more so depending on the area. On top of that, you still have all the associated costs of home ownership,including in your case, a mortgage, no matter how low the rate you have it at.

 

The additional costs of owning this ''permanent and respectable address''would without doubt, use up a fair proportion of money which we can benefit from now.

 

As for buying a property as an investment. At this particular time..........No, I don't think this can be rellied on.

 

Everyone is different, but we have just sold our house and pleased to have done so. We can not wait to get onto Marmaduke and start to enjoy life, travelling about, and generally enjoying the experiances which will come with living on the water and meeting people, rather than staying on land and worrying about maintaing the property, paying a mortgage and having concerns over the bursting of the house market bubble.

 

Regards,

Pav.

Totally agree

[Pav]

Well, although past history is no guarantee of future trends, it is a good guide and property has been amongst the very best and consistent of all possible investments. Every few years there is a blip as the market adjusts to what first-time buyers can afford, but they are very short term blips. Long-term, you're going to have extremely good real-term returns.

 

Chris

 

Hi Chris,

 

I totally agree, but it is obviously all a matter of buying at the right time/price, selling at the right time/price.

 

I know many who have done well, some extremely well, from the property market, but I also know of those who have sold during past blips because of circumstances, not being able to ride the storm, and have lost money.

 

At this particular time though , to my mind anyway, no, it is not a good time to buy any sort of property with the figures of the past 3 months showing drops in prices. For what it's worth, and again it is only in my opinion, these falls will carry on for some time, and this particular 'blip' is going to be a long and painful one for a lot of home owners who have recently purchased.

 

The house market is suffering big time in the USA at the moment and as we all know, they sneeze over there and we catch a cold over here!!

 

Regards,

Pav.

[NB Alnwick]

In 1971, I bought a new bungalow near Rugby for £3,295 - had wanted to buy a boat which was priced at about half that cost but found that I couldn't get anyone to lend me the money for the boat whereas the bank happily arranged a mortgage on the bungalow. That same bungalow recently sold for over £200,000 so it has been a reasonably good investment for its various owners - we sold it many years ago.

 

The boat that we were thinking of buying is still afloat and, miraculously, it has been well maintained and is in good condition. The present owner, a friend of ours, almost sold it a year ago for £20,000 but the sale fell through and he has now decided to keep it.

 

You don't need to be a mathematician to work out which was the best investment.

[BlueStringPudding]

In 1971, I bought a new bungalow near Rugby for £3,295 - had wanted to buy a boat which was priced at about half that cost but found that I couldn't get anyone to lend me the money for the boat whereas the bank happily arranged a mortgage on the bungalow. That same bungalow recently sold for over £200,000 so it has been a reasonably good investment for its various owners - we sold it many years ago.

 

The boat that we were thinking of buying is still afloat and, miraculously, it has been well maintained and is in good condition. The present owner, a friend of ours, almost sold it a year ago for £20,000 but the sale fell through and he has now decided to keep it.

 

You don't need to be a mathematician to work out which was the best investment.

 

Between 1971 and now, that was a very good investment.

 

But now that property is changing hands for a phenomenally huge amount of money, the likelyhood of a similar return for a first-time buyer today in 25 years from now, I believe, is slim.

[Pav]

In 1971, I bought a new bungalow near Rugby for £3,295 - had wanted to buy a boat which was priced at about half that cost but found that I couldn't get anyone to lend me the money for the boat whereas the bank happily arranged a mortgage on the bungalow. That same bungalow recently sold for over £200,000 so it has been a reasonably good investment for its various owners - we sold it many years ago.

 

The boat that we were thinking of buying is still afloat and, miraculously, it has been well maintained and is in good condition. The present owner, a friend of ours, almost sold it a year ago for £20,000 but the sale fell through and he has now decided to keep it.

 

You don't need to be a mathematician to work out which was the best investment.

 

Hi,

 

Yes that is great if you wish to, and are happy to live, in the same house for 36 years.

 

To me it is all about balance and what a person is wanting out of life.

 

This is the first time in my adult life I have not owned a property. I have owned 5 properties at different times and have been lucky never to have lost money when coming to sell.

 

I obviously don't, but It would be intersting to know, how many owners the bungalow has had since 1971, but it is true to say that during those 36 years its value has see-sawed and so it would stand a fair chance that some had made and some may have lost money if it were to have sold..............again depending on the time of transaction and state the market was in.

 

Regards,

Pav.

[chris w]

Between 1971 and now, that was a very good investment.

 

But now that property is changing hands for a phenomenally huge amount of money, the likelyhood of a similar return for a first-time buyer today in 25 years from now, I believe, is slim.

 

12% return, to be exact, compared to about 5% if you stick it in a building society or bank. And, if it's your main residence, no tax to pay, whereas a higher rate tax payer will only get 3% net on a bank deposit (4% for a standard rate tax payer).

 

 

Why would you consider that house prices would be any less an investment in the future? Why? I don't understand what you think will change?

 

My grandparents bought a house 71 years ago (1936) for £600 which was recently sold for just over £400K. That's an average return over the last 71 years of 9.6% NET !!!

 

Property is a great investment with good returns and low risk as compared to other forms of investment.

 

Chris

[NB Alnwick]

Property is a great investment with good returns and low risk as compared to other forms of investment.

 

In fact - it is 'as safe as houses' - a common investment saying that goes back to Victorian days!