Victron IP22 charger wiring

[intaudiom]

Hi All...I have an elderly narrowboat fitted with four Halfords HLB681 (115Ah) leisure batteries connected in parallel and one Yuasa YBX3096 (76Ah) starter battery....normally these are charged by the boat’s alternator, but I’m going to be hooked up to shore power for a few months and not running the engine...I have acquired an IP22 3 output 20A charger to charge the batteries (I don’t have solar power) but the Victron manual merely says “connect the charger to the battery, or batteries”....would I be right in thinking I connect one output to the starter battery and one (two?) to the leisure batteries?...but what gauge wire, and do I need a fuse in each positive connection, and if so what rating?....charger will be mounted approx two metres from the batteries...any help/advice gratefully received!

[Higgs]

12 minutes ago, intaudiom said:

Hi All...I have an elderly narrowboat fitted with four Halfords HLB681 (115Ah) leisure batteries connected in parallel and one Yuasa YBX3096 (76Ah) starter battery....normally these are charged by the boat’s alternator, but I’m going to be hooked up to shore power for a few months and not running the engine...I have acquired an IP22 3 output 20A charger to charge the batteries (I don’t have solar power) but the Victron manual merely says “connect the charger to the battery, or batteries”....would I be right in thinking I connect one output to the starter battery and one (two?) to the leisure batteries?...but what gauge wire, and do I need a fuse in each positive connection, and if so what rating?....charger will be mounted approx two metres from the batteries...any help/advice gratefully received!

 

Check out the connectors, at the bottom of the unit. They won't accommodate above a certain size. You won't need very stout wiring, but see which is the biggest the unit connectors will take. If the cables are going to be a semi-permanent fixture, avoid crocodile clips and fasten to a stud on the battery terminal. 

 

 

[nicknorman]

And yes you should install fuses in the positive lines close to the battery. Their purpose is to protect the wiring from a short circuit etc which could result in 1000s of amps flowing out of the batteries. I would choose a fuse significantly greater than the charger output, 40 or 50A perhaps, provided that is less than the current rating of the cable.

[matty40s]

1 hour ago, nicknorman said:

And yes you should install fuses in the positive lines close to the battery. Their purpose is to protect the wiring from a short circuit etc which could result in 1000s of amps flowing out of the batteries. I would choose a fuse significantly greater than the charger output, 40 or 50A perhaps, provided that is less than the current rating of the cable.

...but NOT in the battery bank box.

[intaudiom]

20 hours ago, matty40s said:

...but NOT in the battery bank box.

OK, many thanks for your advice. I have 10 Sq mm cable and 40A fuses available so I will use those. 

[nicknorman]

22 hours ago, matty40s said:

...but NOT in the battery bank box.

…unless you are a sensible person with lithium batteries.

[George and Dragon]

And I've just bought the exact same exactly the same complete with what is laughingly called a manual (maybe not EXACTLY the same - mine claims to be Smart).

 

Three positive and one negative output terminals. "Manual" makes no mention of how these should be connected. Like many boaters I have one bank of leisure batteries and a single starter. Do I common two of the outputs or leave one unconnected? Does it matter? Is each output independent? 

 

Maybe there's proper information available online.

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

 

I have had two different models of Victron chargers (both with excellent manuals)

 

1) Manual says the total output is divided across the 3 outlets so if (say) it is a 60a charger, each output will give 20a. If you only use 2 outlets (domestic bank + starter) then you will get 20a each. If you link terminal 2 and 3 together you will get 40 amps into your domestics and 20 into your starter.

 

2) The charger has (say) an output of 60 amps, if you connect 1 battery bank to it (leaving 2 outputs emoty) it will put the full amount of 60a into the battery, if you connect 2 outputs each will get 30 amps, if you connect all 3, each will give 20 amps. All done 'automatically'.

 

No idea what your does, could be anything.

[George and Dragon]

There's a little more info online but really nothing like what you'd expect from a company with the profile that Victron seems to have.

Maybe I was supposed to spend time talking to some random sales person and they'd have told me all the stuff that ought to be in the manual but isn't.

 

You know, stuff like installation orientation: you'd think there would be a 'best' way for natural airflow, or perhaps it doesn't matter. Either way wouldn't you want to put that in the documentation?

[Tony Brooks]

11 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I have had two different models of Victron chargers (both with excellent manuals)

 

1) Manual says the total output is divided across the 3 outlets so if (say) it is a 60a charger, each output will give 20a. If you only use 2 outlets (domestic bank + starter) then you will get 20a each. If you link terminal 2 and 3 together you will get 40 amps into your domestics and 20 into your starter.

 

2) The charger has (say) an output of 60 amps, if you connect 1 battery bank to it (leaving 2 outputs emoty) it will put the full amount of 60a into the battery, if you connect 2 outputs each will get 30 amps, if you connect all 3, each will give 20 amps. All done 'automatically'.

 

No idea what your does, could be anything.

 

I suspect it is not as simple as what Alan describes because it seems to me the three outputs are diode protected to stop one battery discharging into another via the charger connections with the designed output voltage compensated for the volt drop. I suspect that if you have one flat battery and one well charged battery you could well find the current apportions itself between the two so rather than 30 amps to each you could get (say) 5 amps on the charged one and 55 amps to the flat one. If I am correct it has implications for the cable size needed. The think may be cleverer than that but I rather doubt it.

[Alan de Enfield]

11 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

I suspect it is not as simple as what Alan describes

 

These were 'old tech' (Models - Centaur and Phoenix) and not the latest 'control it with your phone' type chargers, so maybe the modern stuff is cleverer.

[Tony Brooks]

Just now, Alan de Enfield said:

 

These were 'old tech' (Models - Centaur and Phoenix) and not the latest 'control it with your phone' type chargers, so maybe the modern stuff is cleverer.

 

I bet not because it would cost money. Sticking a bit of memory and a communications chip cost peanuts when considered against all those lovely bells and whistles the marketing bods can then trumpet. 😀

[George and Dragon]

Thus far I've not managed to discover whether the three output terminals are separate or common. The connections on the previous charger were one 'normal' and 1 labelled "Starter 1A" which I assume was to overcome the starter self-discharge. Without proper knowledge I'm wary of connecting the starter battery to one of the terminals since it would rapidly get fully charged and presumably put the whole unit into float before the domestics are ready.

 

On the same tack: I took one of the domestics home to check that the charger was behaving as expected. This is therefore fully charged. What effect will this have when I connect it back into the bank with the other three partially discharged batteries? Will they gradually equalise? What will happen when the charger is connected? Can this damage batteries or charger? Will it be ok to turn the charger on immediately or should I wait for the 4 batteries to equalise?

 

Sorry, that's a lot of questions. It's possible I'm overthinking.

[Tony Brooks]

Mixing a fully charged and a partially charged battery on a bank connected in PARALLEL will result in the fully charge one charging the other so they will end up with a similar charge.

 

I suspect that by the time you get the interlinks connected and tight and then got t the charger a fair bit of  discharge of the full one will already have taken place. I am sure no damage would be done. All that may happen is that the charger drops to float too soon just that one time. (That is earlier than the normal early drop to float).

[nicknorman]

2 hours ago, George and Dragon said:

Thus far I've not managed to discover whether the three output terminals are separate or common. The connections on the previous charger were one 'normal' and 1 labelled "Starter 1A" which I assume was to overcome the starter self-discharge. Without proper knowledge I'm wary of connecting the starter battery to one of the terminals since it would rapidly get fully charged and presumably put the whole unit into float before the domestics are ready.

 

On the same tack: I took one of the domestics home to check that the charger was behaving as expected. This is therefore fully charged. What effect will this have when I connect it back into the bank with the other three partially discharged batteries? Will they gradually equalise? What will happen when the charger is connected? Can this damage batteries or charger? Will it be ok to turn the charger on immediately or should I wait for the 4 batteries to equalise?

 

Sorry, that's a lot of questions. It's possible I'm overthinking.

Yes I think you are overthinking it! The unit will go to float when all the batteries stop taking much current. Just because one of the two sets of batteries becomes fully charged and thus stops taking current, won’t make the charger  go to float, because the main bank will still be taking current.

 

No problems reconnecting a well charged battery in parallel with those less well charged.

[George and Dragon]

2 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

Mixing a fully charged and a partially charged battery on a bank connected in PARALLEL will result in the fully charge one charging the other so they will end up with a similar charge.

 

I suspect that by the time you get the interlinks connected and tight and then got t the charger a fair bit of  discharge of the full one will already have taken place. I am sure no damage would be done. All that may happen is that the charger drops to float too soon just that one time. (That is earlier than the normal early drop to float).

 

2 hours ago, nicknorman said:

Yes I think you are overthinking it! The unit will go to float when all the batteries stop taking much current. Just because one of the two sets of batteries becomes fully charged and thus stops taking current, won’t make the charger  go to float, because the main bank will still be taking current.

 

No problems reconnecting a well charged battery in parallel with those less well charged.

Thanks both.