12v wiring bamboozlement

[WotEver]

4 minutes ago, BlueStringPudding said:

Remove insulating tape from the disconnected PV positive cable and touch the live end to where cables 4 and 6 join

NO!

 

Hold it on its usual (input) terminal - where you just took it from. 

5 minutes ago, BlueStringPudding said:

Reconnect PV positive cable to Victron PV positive terminal (does this have to be done after dark?)

Ideally, but if you’re not afraid of a little spark or two you could do it in daylight. 

[BlueStringPudding]

4 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

Please post a picture of Vicky to make sure we are talking about the same unit!

 

I thought you had the Victron BlueSolar MPPT Controller 100/30 without the optional Bluetooth dongle - the older model not the 2020 version - that came from Jennifer last year and she had fitted in 2016.

 

 

Yes. That's the one. Pic below of the controller.

[WotEver]

1 minute ago, BlueStringPudding said:

Yes. That's the one. Pic below of the controller.

I see the problem. That clothes peg is squeezing the wire and stopping the electrons from flowing...

[BlueStringPudding]

Just now, WotEver said:

I see the problem. That clothes peg is squeezing the wire and stopping the electrons from flowing...

That's just a highly sophisticated way of holding the now disconnected SunSaver PV cables out of the way until they can go back in again. I'm only squeezing the electrons gently 

[cuthound]

10 minutes ago, BlueStringPudding said:

Smoke detector batteries I have. Is that instead of using the live PV cable from the three panels?  Sounds gentler!

Which bit of the battery do I touch to the conjoined Victron cables? And do I just hold it there in a cowardly brave way or do I need to connect it somehow?

 

You put the PP9 battery across the terminals of the controller which normally go to the battery.

 

The PP9 positive terminal is the small round one, which goes to the battery positive of the controller and the large square one is the negative which goes to the battery negative terminal of the controller.

Edited May 22, 2020 by cuthound
Phat phingers

[TheBiscuits]

5 minutes ago, BlueStringPudding said:

Yes. That's the one. Pic below of the controller.

 

That looks like Absorption and Float LEDs are both ON and Bulk LED is OFF.

 

Is that a trick of the light or is it just working and in auto-equalisation mode?

[BlueStringPudding]

7 minutes ago, WotEver said:

NO!

 

Hold it on its usual (input) terminal - where you just took it from. 

Ideally, but if you’re not afraid of a little spark or two you could do it in daylight. 

Thank goodness I've got three arms. 

How do you and Biscuits feel about Cuthound's 9v battery idea rather than shoving a 390w array cable into this lightning storm? Better? Worse? Safer? More fiddly? Less?

[TheBiscuits]

Just now, cuthound said:

You put the PP9 battery across the terminals of the controller which normally go to the battery.

No!  apply 7V+ to PV input with battery connections shorted IF it's the older version.

 

Hang on a bit, and we'll see if it needs doing at all

[BlueStringPudding]

1 minute ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

That looks like Absorption and Float LEDs are both ON and Bulk LED is OFF.

 

Is that a trick of the light or is it just working and in auto-equalisation mode?

Camera flash trick of the light. The single blue LED of doom is still just flashing at me menacingly

[WotEver]

Just now, BlueStringPudding said:

Thank goodness I've got three arms. 

How do you and Biscuits feel about Cuthound's 9v battery idea rather than shoving a 390w array cable into this lightning storm? Better? Worse? Safer? More fiddly? Less?

I’d think it’s much easier to pull the cable out of the connector then just touch it back for a few seconds after you’ve shorted the output terminals than to fiddle with a battery and try to connect it to some wires, which then have to go onto the input terminals for just a few seconds. 

[BlueStringPudding]

3 minutes ago, WotEver said:

I’d think it’s much easier to pull the cable out of the connector then just touch it back for a few seconds after you’ve shorted the output terminals than to fiddle with a battery and try to connect it to some wires, which then have to go onto the input terminals for just a few seconds. 

Thanks. That's what I was trying to establish. Sounds less scary but it's more fiddly. Back to the PV cable once Monsieur Biscuits returns from whatever he needs to check.

(By the way, thank you all for your input!)

 

Another clarity question:

So I'm NOT touching the PV cable to the conjoined Victron Batt terminals to make a three way connection. I'm just joining the positive and negative Victron Batt terminals together. Then shoving the PV cable back up into its own terminal?

Edited May 22, 2020 by BlueStringPudding

[cuthound]

6 minutes ago, WotEver said:

I’d think it’s much easier to pull the cable out of the connector then just touch it back for a few seconds after you’ve shorted the output terminals than to fiddle with a battery and try to connect it to some wires, which then have to go onto the input terminals for just a few seconds. 

 

True, but the PP9 option is less scary if BSP accidentally touches the input cables to something she shouldn't during daylight hours.  

[TheBiscuits]

This is the earlier manual for just the BlueSolar 100/30, not the combined manual for the 100/30 and the 100/50 later models.

 

https://www.es-store.co.uk/documents/product/Manual-BlueSolar-charge-controller-MPPT-100-30-EN-NL-FR-DE-ES-SE.pdf

 

This is the version 5 manual, revised 2015

 

 

[BlueStringPudding]

Aha! I was right. That paragraph isn't in my manual. Thanks.

 

Meanwhile, before I blow up my whole solar array, I did have one final clarifying question above.

Am I correct in saying that I'm NOT touching the PV cable to the conjoined Victron Batt terminals to make a three way connection. I'm just joining the positive and negative Victron Batt terminals together. Then shoving the PV cable back up into its own PV terminal?

 

Sorry to keep asking but I want to be absolutely sure that what you easily understand and I'm less easily understanding, result in the same action and same number of deaths (zero people, zero appliances)

Edited May 22, 2020 by BlueStringPudding

[TheBiscuits]

 

 

Right, last sanity check before we begin:  Have you connected the wires in the correct polarity? 

 

Note the connections go

battery  +  -  -  +  PV

 

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

37 minutes ago, cuthound said:

The PP9 positive terminal is the small round one, which goes to the battery positive of the controller and the large square one is the negative

 

I've never seen a square terminal on a PP9.

They are both 'round' with one being a female and the other being a male.

 

 

[cuthound]

6 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I've never seen a square terminal on a PP9.

They are both 'round' with one being a female and the other being a male.

 

 

 

The majority of the ones I have seen have a square negative terminal. Some have hexagonal ones.

 

I think it depends on the manufacturer.

Edited May 22, 2020 by cuthound
Phat phingers

[TheBiscuits]

47 minutes ago, BlueStringPudding said:

Because the process sounds scary, and because the Victron terminals are dreadful (screw heads are soft and are the flat head screwdriver type, so too much more turning them is going to strip the notches off the screws) I'm going to try to interpret your destructions in simple, brainless Clanger sized steps with as few mucking abouts with the controller screws as I can manage. Please correct me if I get any of these steps wrong or clarify any questions:

1. I disconnect the Victron PV positive cable from Victron PV positive terminal. Insulate with tape.  YES

2. Disconnect from their respective busbars both the positive and negative Victron Batt terminal-to-busbar cables (cables 4 and 6 in the old diagram). This leaves the busbars live and connected to the batteries, but leaves the Victron disconnected from the batteries with two cables hanging out of its arse from the Victron Batt terminals.  YES

3. Join cables 4 and 6 together, even though one leads to the positive Victron Batt terminal and one leads to the negative Victron Batt terminal...? Yes? (This is where my sphincter tightens...)  YES

 

4. Remove insulating tape from the disconnected PV positive cable and stuff it back in the PV+ hole on the controller, making a good connection without bothering to tighten the screw.  Hold it for 5-10 seconds.

 

5. Remove the PV positive cable from the lightning. Insulate with tape again  YES

if I'm feeling scared.  [Do it anyway!]

 

6. Reconnect cables 4 and 6 to their relevant busbars. YES

7. Victron should my be able to read that the batteries are 12v ones. YES

8. Reconnect PV positive cable to Victron PV positive terminal  YES

 

(does this have to be done after dark?) Ideally, but we need to get some charge in your batteries 

Have I idiot-proofed that or have I misunderstood anything?

 

If you are very nervous about step 4, you can do the smoke alarm battery thing, but I think it's more faffing than necessary for 5 seconds.  Wear rubber gloves if you are being a wuss, and try not to rub the big wire on anything metallic ...

[WotEver]

^^^^ wot he said

[BlueStringPudding]

31 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

 

Right, last sanity check before we begin:  Have you connected the wires in the correct polarity? 

 

Note the connections go

battery  +  -  -  +  PV

 

 

 

Double checked outside and inside - all present and correct. 

Okay. Thank you chaps. I'll be brave and use the big cable. I already have big black rubber gloves waiting - previously established wussiness. Don't like sparks and crackles. But needs must. 

 

I'm going inside. I may be some time.. 

[Alan de Enfield]

23 minutes ago, cuthound said:

The majority of the ones I have seen have a square negative terminal. Some have hexagonal ones.

Fairy Snuff - I have only ever seen the 'circular with corners' (circular hexagon) type.

Just concerned that BSP may be looking for a square terminal.

[TheBiscuits]

6 minutes ago, BlueStringPudding said:

Okay. Thank you chaps. I'll be brave and use the big cable. I already have big black rubber gloves waiting - previously established wussiness. Don't like sparks and crackles. But needs must. 

 

I'm going inside. I may be some time.. 

 

 

[BlueStringPudding]

That didn't seem right. No sparks. No crackle. Totally uneventful.

 

So I tried again. This time I unscrewed both Victron Batt terminals (screw heads feel nearly bare) and rigged up a new single cable to connect the positive and negative Victron Batt terminals directly instead of by joining the two original cables. That felt secure. Then I shoved the PV positive back in its hole as far up as it will go, screw as loose as I can make it, and still no sparks or anything that sounded like shorting out. Held it there for ten seconds.

 

I've yet to fit it all back together again since I'm not convinced anything happened and you guys might want me to try something else while the Victron has its two Batt terminals joined and its PV negative connected, but nowt else connected at the moment?

 

Or did the shorting out reset happen silently and shall I just wire it all back together again now?

[TheBiscuits]

4 minutes ago, BlueStringPudding said:

That didn't seem right. No sparks. No crackle. Totally uneventful.

 

So I tried again. This time I unscrewed both Victron Batt terminals (screw heads feel nearly bare) and rigged up a new single cable to connect the positive and negative Victron Batt terminals directly instead of by joining the two original cables. That felt secure. Then I shoved the PV positive back in its hole as far up as it will go, screw as loose as I can make it, and still no sparks or anything that sounded like shorting out. Held it there for ten seconds.

 

I've yet to fit it all back together again since I'm not convinced anything happened and you guys might want me to try something else while the Victron has its two Batt terminals joined and its PV negative connected, but nowt else connected at the moment?

 

Or did the shorting out reset happen silently and shall I just wire it all back together again now?

 

Oh good, you survived

 

No, that's about what we expected to happen.  Just to confirm, can you measure a voltage between PV+ and PV- while PV+ is disconnected.  You might be able to make the PV- connection on the screw head on Vicky instead of trying to poke into the cable hole. Somewhere around 21/22V hopefully. 

 

If you get a voltage around that then reconnect the two battery connection cables, but not the PV cable yet.

 

 

[WotEver]

1 minute ago, TheBiscuits said:

If you get a voltage around that then reconnect the two battery connection cables, but not the PV cable yet.

At which time you should be reading battery voltage on the Victron output terminals (and obviously nothing on the input terminals). 

13 minutes ago, BlueStringPudding said:

That didn't seem right. No sparks. No crackle. Totally uneventful.

Exactly as it should have been.