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W+T

Malaga 5 water heater problem.

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Anybody up on the Malaga 5 water heater. Before i faff emailing Propex does anyone know of this problem. Its been fitted from new for about 2 years now and always worked great when used, not very often though. Now it wont fire up. There is 12.6v, full gas cylinder, water tank is full and will not fire up.

You can hear it sparking and a sound like the flame has lite. But then after the three attempts the red light flashes and have to resett it. I have reset it a good dozen times but still nothing. It did this last visit but then the day after it fired up, now nothing.

 

The red light flashes every 3 seconds.

 

Any ideas ?

Edited by W+T

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8 minutes ago, W+T said:

Anybody up on the Malaga 5 water heater. Before i faff emailing Propex does anyone know of this problem. Its been fitted from new for about 2 years now and always worked great when used, not very often though. Now it wont fire up. There is 12.6v, full gas cylinder, water tank is full and will not fire up.

You can hear it sparking and a sound like the flame has lite. But then after the three attempts the red light flashes and have to resett it. I have reset it a good dozen times but still nothing. It did this last visit but then the day after it fired up, now nothing.

 

The red light flashes every 3 seconds.

 

Any ideas ?

 

What does the manual say the red light flashing once every three seconds means? It will be an error code.

 

Probably flame detection failure. Follow the service procedure and make sure the burner, electrodes etc are clean and undistorted. Then probably replace the PCB.

 

ISTR Propex do a service exchange on them for not much money if you are stumped.

 

Oh and loosen the gas inlet pipe connection to check gas comes out, to prove there really IS a gas supply!

 

 

Edited by Mike the Boilerman
Spelling!!!!

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1 minute ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

What does the manual say the red light flashing once every three seconds means? It will be an error code.

 

Probably flame detection failure. Follow the service procedure and make sure the burner, electrodes etc are clean and undistorted. Then probably replace the PCB.

 

ISTR Propex do a service exchange on them for not much money if you are stumped.

 

 

The manual i have witht the heater does not give any codes. 

 

 

20191013_113225.jpg

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I have a Malaga 4 in my motorhome and it sometimes does this. So far it has always worked by following the 'clearing lockouts' instructions whereby you switch it off and back on at the switch within a couple of seconds. I've had to do it many times on occasions. 

 

I have a Propex air heater as well. This has a similar problem but will not clear itself. However, I've found it will work if I blast the pcb with compressed air for a few minutes so I assume it's a pcb fault. When I phoned Propex they were very helpful but ultimately suggested that I send the unit to them. The likely price they estimated seemed very reasonable. 

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14 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Yes it does, first line in your photo! "One flash, no flame detected". 

 

 

I thought you meant an actual code  umber lime with a car diag code.

 

Just trying to work out how to check if the gas valve is opening. 

4 minutes ago, stegra said:

I have a Malaga 4 in my motorhome and it sometimes does this. So far it has always worked by following the 'clearing lockouts' instructions whereby you switch it off and back on at the switch within a couple of seconds. I've had to do it many times on occasions. 

 

I have a Propex air heater as well. This has a similar problem but will not clear itself. However, I've found it will work if I blast the pcb with compressed air for a few minutes so I assume it's a pcb fault. When I phoned Propex they were very helpful but ultimately suggested that I send the unit to them. The likely price they estimated seemed very reasonable. 

I also have the propex cab heater and thats been great  upto know.  Hope to God i dont have to send it back. 

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Ok, the gas valve is opening.  

 

I turned off the gas at cylinder.

 

Turned off the heater and heard the thermocouple spark and no 'woosh ' sound of a flame.

 

I turned on the gas again and turned  on the heater and as before i heard the 'woosh' sound.

 

So gas is getting there and a litte ingniting.

 

Checked power to the unit and 12.56v to the PCB

 

 

 

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25 minutes ago, W+T said:

Ok, the gas valve is opening.  

 

I turned off the gas at cylinder.

 

Turned off the heater and heard the thermocouple spark and no 'woosh ' sound of a flame.

 

I turned on the gas again and turned  on the heater and as before i heard the 'woosh' sound.

 

So gas is getting there and a litte ingniting.

 

Checked power to the unit and 12.56v to the PCB

 

 

 

 

As I said earlier, this is flame detection failure. There is no doubt. Not something you can fix yourself other than by carrying out the reset as already described. 

 

 

Edited by Mike the Boilerman
Spelling, again!

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2 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

As I said earlier, this is flame detection failure. There is no doubt. Not something you can fix yourself other than by carrying out the rest as already described. 

 

 

Thanks Mike 

 

So i need to return the unit to Propex for them to fix it by fitting a new PCB. What a pain in yhe arse. And hardly  used it. 

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2 minutes ago, W+T said:

Thanks Mike 

 

So i need to return the unit to Propex for them to fix it by fitting a new PCB. What a pain in yhe arse. And hardly  used it. 

 

Have you done the reset EXACTLY as the instructions say?

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Have you done the reset EXACTLY as the instructions say?

 

 

Yes, and done all the other  checks. Supplies.

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4 minutes ago, W+T said:

Yes, and done all the other  checks. Supplies.

 

Dammit then yes, send it back. I'm reasonably sure they don't sell spares for the unit, they just say send it back for a service exchange.

 

Or that certainly used to be the case. Pretty efficient service they offer IIRC, having used it once for a customer. 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Dammit then yes, send it back. I'm reasonably sure they don't sell spares for the unit, they just say send it back for a service exchange.

 

Or that certainly used to be the case. Pretty efficient service they offer IIRC, having used it once for a customer. 

 

 

Well  not  impressed one bit woth it.  Not just with having to remove it to get it fixed when i could easy do it myself with out removingi bet. But a new unit fired up less than half a dozen times. 

 

Meant to be good units these, reason i got one.

 

Ah well. 

 

Thanks  Mike  for the help.

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I guess there are a few things you could try. Instructions say there's a red reset button on the pcb. Ok, it's for overhest scenario but must be worth a try. Unplug and re-seat the multi connectors while you're at it. Try it with the batteries on charge to see if it works with the higher voltage. If you're comfortable dismantling further, check the jet isn't blocked and that the thermocouple is in the right place and not damaged. 

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Just now, stegra said:

I guess there are a few things you could try. Instructions say there's a red reset button on the pcb. Ok, it's for overhest scenario but must be worth a try. Unplug and re-seat the multi connectors while you're at it. Try it with the batteries on charge to see if it works with the higher voltage. If you're comfortable dismantling further, check the jet isn't blocked and that the thermocouple is in the right place and not damaged. 

 

It doesn't have a thermocouple. 

 

 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, W+T said:

Well  not  impressed one bit woth it.  Not just with having to remove it to get it fixed when i could easy do it myself with out removingi bet.

My guess is that it’s down to GSIUR regs. “No user serviceable parts” and all that. 

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Just now, WotEver said:

My guess is that it’s down to GSIUR regs. “No user serviceable parts” and all that. 

 

The GSIUR DON'T apply to leisure boats, however....

 

 

I'd say it is a commercial decision. Don't allow peeps to fix their own, too many problems bounce back on the manu not of their making. Offer a service exchange instead. 

 

Back in the day I dabbled with selling boiler spares mail order. I'd say 25% of purchasers came back telling me the part I sold them didn't fix it and they wanted a refund. Feck that, I decided!

 

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6 minutes ago, stegra said:

I guess there are a few things you could try. Instructions say there's a red reset button on the pcb. Ok, it's for overhest scenario but must be worth a try. Unplug and re-seat the multi connectors while you're at it. Try it with the batteries on charge to see if it works with the higher voltage. If you're comfortable dismantling further, check the jet isn't blocked and that the thermocouple is in the right place and not damaged. 

Got thay desperate i did the red resets button earlier  on. Cant see it needing more than the 12.6v its getting as it can run as low as 10v. Ill need to get the charger from gome and genny to try it out with more volts next week. 

 

 

5 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

The GSIUR DON'T apply to leisure boats, however....

 

 

I'd say it is a commercial decision. Don't allow peeps to fix their own, too many problems bounce back on the manu not of their making. Offer a service exchange instead. 

 

Back in the day I dabbled with selling boiler spares mail order. I'd say 25% of purchasers came back telling me the part I sold them didn't fix it and they wanted a refund. Feck that, I decided!

 

It just .makes me   ot want it at all if they fail this easy and not repairable by myself for a simple PCB or something. 

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13 minutes ago, W+T said:

Got thay desperate i did the red resets button earlier  on. Cant see it needing more than the 12.6v its getting as it can run as low as 10v. Ill need to get the charger from gome and genny to try it out with more volts next week. 

 

 

It just .makes me   ot want it at all if they fail this easy and not repairable by myself for a simple PCB or something. 

 

All modern gas appliances are prone to electronics failures. There is no guarantee that your PCB has failed, just that it isn't detecting the flame. A new PCB may not fix it and then you'd be on here complaining they won't take it back! I think their way of dealing with failures is actually very good. 

 

 

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56 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

The GSIUR DON'T apply to leisure boats...

Yes I’m aware of that. I meant that the mfr may have used the regs as a basis for not supplying spares. However I think your suggestion is prolly more likely - send it to us and we’ll know it’s fixed when we return it and we’ll also be aware of what the common faults are. 

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33 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

All modern gas appliances are prone to electronics failures. There is no guarantee that your PCB has failed, just that it isn't detecting the flame. A new PCB may not fix it and then you'd be on here complaining they won't take it back! I think their way of dealing with failures is actually very good. 

 

 

Yes some folk are like that and complains to others if they cant fix it but after many years of fixing things and the item i replaced did not fix the fault have i ever gone back and returned the item or comained as i know there can be faults misleading /  leading to the actual fault. But i get your point, its just the pain in the arse of a job and trouble removing it to return it. And in the hope it does not cost a fortune to fix as said when its not been used much.

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41 minutes ago, W+T said:

Yes some folk are like that and complains to others if they cant fix it but after many years of fixing things and the item i replaced did not fix the fault have i ever gone back and returned the item or comained as i know there can be faults misleading /  leading to the actual fault. But i get your point, its just the pain in the arse of a job and trouble removing it to return it. And in the hope it does not cost a fortune to fix as said when its not been used much.

Unfortunately even the best things fail from time to time, so it is how the supplier deals with these failures, rather than the fact of having them. If their maintenance solution is to replace it with a refurbished working unit, it's hard to see how you can get fairer than that.

 

Looks like it's got to come out whatever so, as they say, "you are where you are". The issues then seem to be, how much is it going to cost, and where is their nearest exchange place.

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When I spoke to them a couple of years ago they didn't mention an exchange. Instead they said to send it to them (near Southampton) and they would do a bench test for a small fee and advise what was needed and the cost. Things may have changed now though, and also, that was for an air heater. 

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FWIW - I find my Alde can be a bit of a beast to light after it has been off for some moths. I suspect it may be to do  with parts of the gas circuit in the burner losing gas but in the Alde's case its only the pilot light igniting at first and it then has to warm up the flame probe for the main burner. No idea about the Propex but the 3 second flash rate sounds very similar to the Alde's igniter when it cant detect a flame and that is done with the conductivity of the flame, not a probe.

Edited by Tony Brooks

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