Beta 43 Air bleed on pump

[Northstar]

Hi All

Had my Beta 43 for 15 years now not done that many hours but have recently had a number of air locks in the fuel line

I've cleaned out the water seperators and and changed the fuel filter suction cleaned the tank but I'm still getting problems.

Does anyone know the purpose of the knurled but bleeder on the side of the pump is it supposed to remain slightly open?

[Machpoint005]

Varies according to age of the engine but I'm pretty sure you loosen it off to bleed the system then tighten it up when done. Works on mine anyway.

[Boater Sam]

I think its a bleed bypass and should be screwed closed to run.

[Northstar]

3 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

Varies according to age of the engine but I'm pretty sure you loosen it off to bleed the system then tighten it up when done. Works on mine anyway.

Yeah I'd assumed the same but wanted to check

Trouble is I'm clearing the air locks using the bleed on the side of the filter plus the fuel pump bleed too then after 5-10 mins running it starts faltering again

So I've now had it running for about 30 mins on tickover and full bore with the knurled pump bleeder slightly open and it hasn't stalled

It's not leaking any fuel either

[nicknorman]

No you should leave that knurled knob fully open. It is an automatic air bleed, so you shouldn’t have a problem with diesel leaking out. Ours has been fully open for the past 3000 hrs!

 

We had a problem with air leaking in from the seals on the priming pump - black disc plunger on top of the engine-mounted fuel filter. This was a problem from new. Eventually we replaced the filter housing (which includes the primer pump) and problem disappeared.

[Northstar]

18 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

No you should leave that knurled knob fully open. It is an automatic air bleed, so you shouldn’t have a problem with diesel leaking out. Ours has been fully open for the past 3000 hrs!

 

We had a problem with air leaking in from the seals on the priming pump - black disc plunger on top of the engine-mounted fuel filter. This was a problem from new. Eventually we replaced the filter housing (which includes the primer pump) and problem disappeared.

That's very helpful thanks and it explains how I hamfistedly snapped the knurled wheel off when I attempted to use it to help clear an air lock - it was already fully open

Did the leaking primer filter housing leak oil out or did it just let air in

[bizzard]

9 minutes ago, Northstar said:

That's very helpful thanks and it explains how I hamfistedly snapped the knurled wheel off when I attempted to use it to help clear an air lock - it was already fully open

Did the leaking primer filter housing leak oil out or did it just let air in

Let air in. Those units were fitted to certain older diesel cars, Ford Orion, Escort diesels to name a couple. Renewed many of them in the past.

[nicknorman]

5 minutes ago, Northstar said:

That's very helpful thanks and it explains how I hamfistedly snapped the knurled wheel off when I attempted to use it to help clear an air lock - it was already fully open

Did the leaking primer filter housing leak oil out or did it just let air in

It just weeped ever so slightly. But then we have an electric fuel lift pump in addition to the mechanical engine pump, so when the engine is running the filter is under positive pressure. Our engine drew in a bit of air (much lower viscosity than fuel!) when shut down over night, we had a bit of an issue with stopping and rough running after first start of the day.

[Chewbacka]

56 minutes ago, Northstar said:

That's very helpful thanks and it explains how I hamfistedly snapped the knurled wheel off when I attempted to use it to help clear an air lock - it was already fully open

Did the leaking primer filter housing leak oil out or did it just let air in

When I were a lad the factory fitter taught me to always when turning a tap on to turn off a part of a turn.  That way if when working on kit and you are not sure if the tap is on or off, it will always turn in the on direction even if force is needed.  

[Northstar]

9 hours ago, nicknorman said:

It just weeped ever so slightly. But then we have an electric fuel lift pump in addition to the mechanical engine pump, so when the engine is running the filter is under positive pressure. Our engine drew in a bit of air (much lower viscosity than fuel!) when shut down over night, we had a bit of an issue with stopping and rough running after first start of the day.

Ok thanks this is definitely starting to make sense of the symptoms I've been experiencing.

I've got to get this fixed and thoroughly tested asap before I go back across the Ribble Link in a couple of weeks time

[Northstar]

9 hours ago, Chewbacka said:

When I were a lad the factory fitter taught me to always when turning a tap on to turn off a part of a turn.  That way if when working on kit and you are not sure if the tap is on or off, it will always turn in the on direction even if force is needed.  

Well I've always done the same thing for a different reason but this was the first time I'd touched that valve so it must have been fully open since new which is born out by the paint cover on it's shaft below the nut.

Thanks again for your time much appreciated

[Northstar]

10 hours ago, bizzard said:

Let air in. Those units were fitted to certain older diesel cars, Ford Orion, Escort diesels to name a couple. Renewed many of them in the past.

I'm going to try and track down a new primer filter housing today and I'm a bit limited for time so do you know of a more available auto motive unit that will suit the B43 or do I have to get one from Beta

[Dr Bob]

We had an air leakage problem on our then 15 year old Beta 43. The female union that attached the diesel feed pipe from the tank to the first filter.....i.e. The water separator.....had a crack in it. The crack was behind the union and the union was tight when checked with a spanner. There was no diesel leakage but air was obviously getting in over night so a pig to start and lumpy running. Took RCR a few hours to work out where the leak was coming from. 

This was in the first few days of owning the boat so guess the union had been over tightened on a previous service. 

[nicknorman]

2 hours ago, Northstar said:

Well I've always done the same thing for a different reason but this was the first time I'd touched that valve so it must have been fully open since new which is born out by the paint cover on it's shaft below the nut.

Thanks again for your time much appreciated

When I contacted Beta about our problems, I was told to check that the bleed valve was open, which it should be on leaving the factory. They also suggested that if indeed it was open as expected, I should try closing it just in case it was malfunctioning and letting air in (that didn’t make any difference to our problem).

[nicknorman]

1 hour ago, Northstar said:

I'm going to try and track down a new primer filter housing today and I'm a bit limited for time so do you know of a more available auto motive unit that will suit the B43 or do I have to get one from Beta

I think you will have to get it from Beta.

 

Long story but when ours was giving problems from new, Beta arranged for an “engineer” to come out and look at it - not from Beta but a contractor from a boatyard. He was a complete idiot and made it much worse, in part by swapping out the filter housing with an old scratched and knackered one he had rattling about in his van. I complained to Beta and they sent me a new housing pretty quickly, which I fitted myself. Engine has been perfect ever since!

 

So I think Beta should have stock and should be able to send out pretty quickly.

 

I’ll also just mention that our fuel tank is under the engine, hence the electric lift pump. But that also means a fair bit of suction on the fittings when the engine is shut down. Is your fuel tank above or below the engine? And if it’s roughly the same level, perhaps simply filling it full (thus raising the level) would help you in the short term?

Edited September 6, 2019 by nicknorman

[Boater Sam]

The priming pump and filter head is a standard Bosch part I think, £15 on ebay

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bosch-Diesel-Primer-Screw-On-Head-Filter-Universal-Flow-Housing-Pump/192700230158?epid=20015434491&hash=item2cddd42a0e:g:wqgAAOSwInxXMa~8

 Very common, used on lots of diesel vehicles.

 

Bet Beta's price is 5 times this at least.

[Northstar]

57 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

I think you will have to get it from Beta.

 

Long story but when ours was giving problems from new, Beta arranged for an “engineer” to come out and look at it - not from Beta but a contractor from a boatyard. He was a complete idiot and made it much worse, in part by swapping out the filter housing with an old scratched and knackered one he had rattling about in his van. I complained to Beta and they sent me a new housing pretty quickly, which I fitted myself. Engine has been perfect ever since!

 

So I think Beta should have stock and should be able to send out pretty quickly.

 

I’ll also just mention that our fuel tank is under the engine, hence the electric lift pump. But that also means a fair bit of suction on the fittings when the engine is shut down. Is your fuel tank above or below the engine? And if it’s roughly the same level, perhaps simply filling it full (thus raising the level) would help you in the short term?

My tank forms the stern of the boat so is level with the engine which is located immediately forward of it 

The tank is virtually full 

Now I recall the origin of this problem it first occurred after a 2hr cruise followed by a 2 week stop when I returned to move the boat it started fine ticked over for several minutes the as I was moving away began to falter

My in initial attemps to sort it out focused on the idea that I had a blocked fuel line which proved unfounded

I've now satisfactorily vacuum tested the pipes stop valves and water seperator.

So I'm now replacing the pipes and going to test the engine with the automatic bleed valve fully open

If I still have the same problems I'll replace the fuel filter housing

[Boater Sam]

If the tank is really totally full, is the breather now blocked or dipping into the fuel inside the tank? Take the filler cap off and see if it runs OK.

[Machpoint005]

Wouldn't the breather be above the maximum fuel level? Bad design if not!

[Northstar]

 

1 hour ago, Boater Sam said:

The priming pump and filter head is a standard Bosch part I think, £15 on ebay

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bosch-Diesel-Primer-Screw-On-Head-Filter-Universal-Flow-Housing-Pump/192700230158?epid=20015434491&hash=item2cddd42a0e:g:wqgAAOSwInxXMa~8

 Very common, used on lots of diesel vehicles.

 

Bet Beta's price is 5 times this at least.

Looks a good risk for £15

Do you know if uses the same filter?

59 minutes ago, Boater Sam said:

If the tank is really totally full, is the breather now blocked or dipping into the fuel inside the tank? Take the filler cap off and see if it runs OK.

No, my breather is above the tank but it's a good point I'll check that it's not obstructed

[Boater Sam]

43 minutes ago, Northstar said:

 

Looks a good risk for £15

Do you know if uses the same filter?

No, my breather is above the tank but it's a good point I'll check that it's not obstructed

Looks to use the same filter, there are others on ebay with the filters included as a kit, have a look.

[Northstar]

22 minutes ago, Boater Sam said:

Looks to use the same filter, there are others on ebay with the filters included as a kit, have a look.

I've just ordered it for £15 Inc postage 

Beta were just over £60 plus delivery so even if I have to make a bracket for it, it's well worth doing so

Thanks 

[Boater Sam]

Glad to be of assistance, hope it fits.

[Machpoint005]

4 minutes ago, Boater Sam said:

hope it fits.

 

Buying from Beta would guarantee that it fits -- but that's what you pay for.

[Boater Sam]

Aye, but Beta prices don't fit everyone's' pockets.