Question about Boat Hire Companies

[BlueStringPudding]

On Sunday we met up with a boat who wanted to share the water point we were using. Lovely family, trying to enjoy their holiday but struggling a bit.

 

As we were pulling in to the water point I wandered up to them because judging by their steering, it wasn't clear whether they were heading for the lock or the water point. That was because they didn't know the water point was there (despite looking for one). I asked them if they'd been given a map (they were hiring from Napton Boats) and they said "probably".

 

Odd answer, thought me, so I got chatting to them.

 

It turns out that they'd been given no tuition at all when they hired the boat. They didn't know how to work locks and had blagged there way through from Napton to Warwick only by sharing locks with other boats. They didn't know to slow down past moored boats, they didn't know where any of the food shops or pubs were (they were starving having lived off beans on toast all weekend because by time they reached the few canalside pubs, they couldn't get served). They wanted to go to Warwick but didn't know where to moor or how to moor. They only had one mooring pin (the second one they had, had fallen into the water miles back) so they had to moor on the rings at the water point in the end. And they'd had no water for hours because they didn't know what a water point looked like and had been creeping along at 0mph trying to spot one.

 

I really felt for them because they were trying so hard, this was there first boating holiday, and despite the lovely sunny wekend we had, they didn't ever want to do another one. What a shame.

 

Interestingly, a few weeks ago when Kev and I were moored in Leamington, there were 2 Napton Boats full of student lads that came speeding past faster than I've seen any narrowboat go - I'd have been impressed at the speed they managed to achieve had they not knocked over half our kithcen contents, thrown open all the wardrobes and dismantled a moorhen's nest on the opposite side on the cut. A gentle suggestion that it might be safer to slow down past moored boats and approaching the bridge was greated with a spectacular array of expletives and the excuse "I have to go this fast because of the way the water's going" I thought it best to inform him that the water isn't going any way at all because it's a canal.

 

Come on Napton Boats, what you playing at? If people never want to boat again because you've left them in the lurch, you're losing future custom and not doing your reputation any favours by letting untutored idiots out in boats with your name on the side!

[Supermalc]

.. Senile Dementia strikes again )

Edited August 28, 2007 by Supermalc

[carlt]

I think you've made your point Lisa.

 

I'll answer on this thread I think.

 

Napton Narrowboats are, usually, one of the better hire companies round here.

 

The owner is very 'active' locally and tends to be pretty vocal and critical of the practices of some other companies, quite rightly too, imho.

 

She even demanded that my boats be dragged out of the water, and burned and me euthanised (I exaggerate, but only slightly), at one user groups meeting, a few years ago. So she is keen to maintain a certain standard on the cut (even if it is a little skewed).

 

It may well be worth giving her a ring, or dropping her a line, as I think she'd want to know if her boats are going out without the hirers getting the proper tuition.

 

Edited to remove long quote (I think it's been seen enough)

Edited August 28, 2007 by carlt

[bottle]

I have some sympathy for this poor family but they are to blame as well.

 

When we decided to have our first boat holiday (many years ago) I made sure that I found out as much as possible before we even got aboard.

 

We visited the marina at least four times in the weeks before our holiday (not on change over days) read as many books as possible (on boating/canals) bought the maps/guide books and planned our route with advice from the marina.

 

Consequently we had a stress free holiday and caught the bug.

[Supermalc]

I think the same can apply to ALL new boaters ....... private or otherwise, from a dingy to the largest Gin Palace/Dutch Barge/Narrowboat/Whatever.

 

It was ONLY through my own initative of joining the local (Lincoln) boat club, and trying to find other boaters to talk to I learned anything .......... for instance, the fact boats pass ON THE RIGHT. Now I know I had not been boating, and had taken little interest in them, but I was 54 years old, and no one had ever mentioned this to me. I had even had a ride on one or two small cruisers which were moored in the Brayford, yet still didn't know this (or maybe I had forgotten .... Senile Dementia strikes again )

 

 

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

Obviously I don't know the lady in question, but do agree with Carl 100%

 

Remember the saying 'talk to the engine driver, not the monkey' well it usually works.

 

My friend and mentor I've often mentioned would telephone people about problems. Once for instance about the luggage thieves at Kings Cross station.

 

He telephoned the usual customer services and asked the person if they had a boss, and could he speak to them. He repeated this several times, until he got to No. 2. Apparently his boss the MD was unavailable, however as you must agree that wasn't too bad.

 

Not sure what the result was, but after being assured by all that the problem had been addressed, he asked about 'a woman' with the reply ....... well she has been particularly difficult.

 

Anway, next time you need to phone for advice, or assistance, or to pass on information, just ask if they've a boss, and if they say yes you say, well that's the person you want to talk to ..... you'd be surprised how often it does work.

 

Oh, not quite the same but I rang BW at Watford, actually about the cost of a refund for a licence for a boat I had bought. While on the phone I mentioned about a problem with a sunken boat at Bardney, and Stamp End lock being slow. I was actually put through to the MDs personal assistant (think they've changed now) so got to talk to the second in command. Well of course nothing changed, but ......... I did get a frosty phone call from Newark office, who obviously didn't like my talking to the top man, however ......... and I did get a proper explanation. And as Iv'e said, much to the chagrin of a few boaters on the river, most at Newark are now 'onside' with one or two being exceptionally friendly and obliging, regarding my situation.

 

Long may it continue.

 

Edited to put my post on the same thread

Edited August 28, 2007 by Supermalc

[Moley]

I have some sympathy for this poor family but they are to blame as well.

When we decided to have our first boat holiday (many years ago) I made sure that I found out as much as possible before we even got aboard.

 

Agreed, the research and planning was all part of the fun, I fully understood how locks worked even if I had never wound a paddle (probably just as well as there isn't a lock by Anderton and Alvechurch's lock tuition involved a wooden model), we'd bought a Nicholson, understood lock miles and planned the trip.

 

Fair play to Alvechurch, practical instruction on steering and turning was fairly brief but daily pre-start and shutdown (greasing etc.), battery management, inverter, loo limitations, safety etc. were well covered.

 

A few days ago while locking through Gailey, a Viking staff member was talking a family through lock procedures and hazards, and I was favourably impressed that they would know what they were doing before being given the keys.

 

Conversely, last year we were around no.8 in the queue at Grindley on the Llan, I had gone to the lock to help, we had worked 5 boats through when a woman from no.6 came up and said "it's our first lock, what do I have to do?" I thought that helping with the previous 5 rather than sitting on her backside awaiting their turn might have been good practice.

 

So, levels of tuition may vary, but you also have to factor in how much the crew in question can be bothered to learn or listen.

[BlueStringPudding]

I have to say this all sounds a bit like a presumptious dig at this family who'd been left in the lurch. On the contrary to what some of you might be presuming, they were not just keen to learn but desperate to ask questions. They were so grateful that someone was willing to help.

 

And to be honest, you don't know what could go wrong or how difficult something is till you try it. If you try it on your own because no member of staff is showing or talking you through anything, then that's the first time you know you need help!

 

Yes, many of us (me included) have done lots of research before going on a boating holiday, but I can't blame them for trusting they'd be given the tuition they need when they got there. To be honest, I'd expect that on top of any research I'd done. And no hire company should expect their punters to have learned it all before they get there - that's surely not the point!

 

Years ago Kev and I had a boating holiday on the Broads - despite Kev having been boating for years and the boat only being a weeny cruiser (Little Gem) the company insisted on showing us how everything worked, the protocol of handling/passing/mooring and ensured we could manouvre the boat before they left us to it. They also talked us through the things we might not need to do, such as pumpout and water.

 

I can only presume that these people picked up their boat from Napton on a busy Saturday morning, and the staff just wanted to get them out of the way so they could prep the next boat.

[bottle]

It may well have been presumptuous but

 

It turns out that they'd been given no tuition at all when they hired the boat. Disgraceful They didn't know how to work locks and had blagged there way through from Napton to Warwick only by sharing locks with other boats. I do not know how many locks that is but surely they must have picked up some idea They didn't know to slow down past moored boats, In the books that I read they didn't know where any of the food shops or pubs were Get a guide book(they were starving having lived off beans on toast all weekend because by time they reached the few canalside pubs, they couldn't get served). Most pubs serve food all day if not wait until they do, shops ask the pub/other boaters where the nearest ones are. They wanted to go to Warwick but didn't know where to moor Guide book again or how to moor. again disgraceful of the marina They only had one mooring pin (the second one they had, had fallen into the water miles back) so they had to moor on the rings at the water point in the end. Marina again boat should of had more than two pins at outset And they'd had no water for hours because they didn't know what a water point looked like and had been creeping along at 0mph trying to spot one.Understandable, they are hard to spot but again maps/guide books would of helped

 

I really felt for them because they were trying so hard, this was there first boating holiday, and despite the lovely sunny wekend we had, they didn't ever want to do another one. What a shame. Yes it is a shame

 

It was not a dig at this family, just that they could have helped themselves a little in being better prepared.

 

If I had been in your position, I to would have helped them to the best of my ability.

[Keeping Up]

Three topics merged

[BlueStringPudding]

Cheers Allan, got a bit confusing there!

[cugsey]

CARLT"She even demanded that my boats be dragged out of the water, and burned and me euthanised (I exaggerate, but only slightly), at one user groups meeting, a few years ago. So she is keen to maintain a certain standard on the cut (even if it is a little skewed)."

 

 

 

does she have a fan club

Edited August 28, 2007 by cugsey

[RichardH]

I've mentioned this before but chatting to the lockie at Hurleston last week he said that he regularly gets hirers from one particular company arriving at the bottom lock without the faintest idea what to do.

 

Given that the company is a stones throw away it beggers belief that when people have coughed up over a grand for a holiday they don't take the time to meet them at the lock to show them the method of operation.

 

Our only hire experience has been with Chas Hardern and their training is second to none. Full boat operation, a winding hole and a lock. Now before the rotten tomatoes are hurled I know not all bases are this lucky but even so some could make a bit more effort.

[Stephen Sugg]

Yesterday as the wife was packing to leave our rented cottage at Napton, I took the little one down for a final look at the lock, i ended up teaching some hirers on a Calcut boat how to use the lock, earlier on in the week i had to explain to a private boater that the lock will not work if paddles are open at both ends! It takes all sorts........

[Paul And Vikki]

Yesterday as the wife was packing to leave our rented cottage at Napton, I took the little one down for a final look at the lock, i ended up teaching some hirers on a Calcut boat how to use the lock, earlier on in the week i had to explain to a private boater that the lock will not work if paddles are open at both ends! It takes all sorts........

 

 

I have been watching this thread from the start, and to be honest it was the same with us. We had a boat from Anglowelsh at Tardebigge. They showed us around the boat and what to do if roap got caught up in the prop. When it came to the locks they gave us a diagram, which was sort of ok but not really that much use. We eventually did the Tardebigge flight in a day and a half, but half way down we were told that we were not supposed to leave the gates open as we went through, so we moored up and swiftly walked back up closing all the gates.

 

They did however give us a mobile number to contact them on 24hrs a day to say if we needed them, to call us. We had a reall good time and did the Avon ring, in just under two weeks, and fell in love with boats.

 

We are off again to do the Warwiksire ring next and cant wait.

 

P

[Hairy-Neil]

.......earlier on in the week i had to explain to a private boater that the lock will not work if paddles are open at both ends! It takes all sorts........

 

We all have the occasional senior moment....

 

 

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone......."

[Pam S]

Given that the company is a stones throw away it beggers belief that when people have coughed up over a grand for a holiday they don't take the time to meet them at the lock to show them the method of operation.

 

 

 

Our first hire boat was from Viking at Rugby and this is exactly what the yard manager did. He came on board with us to a winding hole and supervised us through the procedure and then went ashore promising to meet us at the first locks. He came through the locks with us and made absolutely sure that we felt comfortable about the boat before he left us as well as discussing our proposed route.

 

But we're really good at planning holidays! We were always campers before we became boaters and couldn't conceive of going on holiday anywhere without buying at least one map, one guide book and joining some appropriate forum or another on the web!

 

I think nearly all the glossy brochures have reassuring words about proper tuition for newbies. I would think that there might be a good case for suggesting that if a hire company does not provide adequate tuition then it has not kept its side of the bargain.

 

Pam S

[Stephen Sugg]

Napton do this,I saw the guy on Saturday, Sunday and Monday showing the first timers how it works,he knew all the boats heading his way, and waited very patiently for them.....on another note, i was outside having a pint at the Bridge pub on Friday and I got asked by two people in a car where their hire base was, they knew it was around Napton but couldn't remember the name of either the company or the boat! I directed them to Wigrams as it was the least complicated option, I hope they found it!!

[good7saint]

On our first boating holiday we went with Shire Cruisers at Sowerby Bridge.

The training they give is the best I have seen any where.

When you pay the deposit they send you the boaters hand book then when you pay the balance they also send you the boaters video to watch.

On arrival you are shown to your boat given time to put your bags on the boat then you have a briefing about everything before someone goes out on the boat with you and stays with you for the first few locks.

Consequently we had a great time boating and caught the bug

[adam1uk]

Yesterday as the wife was packing to leave our rented cottage at Napton, I took the little one down for a final look at the lock, i ended up teaching some hirers on a Calcut boat how to use the lock, earlier on in the week i had to explain to a private boater that the lock will not work if paddles are open at both ends! It takes all sorts........

 

Those Calcutt hirers must have very short memories. The Calcutt hire boats all start from the pound between the top and middle locks, so they can't go anywhere without going through a lock. I've seen the staff there going through the lock with hirers, and then staying on board until well towards Napton Junction.

 

On the other hand, I was talking to the crew of a Clifton Cruisers hire boat on Saturday as we passed on the Napton flight, explaining how to avoid their boat being flung into the top gate. They said they'd learned more in that five minutes than they had since they arrived at the boat.

[carlt]

A certain Rugby hirer's training:

 

"push that throttle lever as far forward as it willow go and leave it there wren you're boating...Oh and don't forget to start drinking at 8 every morning."

[Scotty]

On our first boating holiday we went with Shire Cruisers at Sowerby Bridge.

The training they give is the best I have seen any where.

When you pay the deposit they send you the boaters hand book then when you pay the balance they also send you the boaters video to watch.

On arrival you are shown to your boat given time to put your bags on the boat then you have a briefing about everything before someone goes out on the boat with you and stays with you for the first few locks.

Consequently we had a great time boating and caught the bug

Sounds a lot like Wyvern

they send you the boaters hand book and DVD to get you started well before you arrive for the holiday

once you've got you're bits on board they demo the boat and take you through the first lock.

 

We actually got stuck on a trolley while the instructor was still on board!

That was fun!

[good7saint]

Sounds a lot like Wyvern

they send you the boaters hand book and DVD to get you started well before you arrive for the holiday

once you've got you're bits on board they demo the boat and take you through the first lock.

 

We actually got stuck on a trolley while the instructor was still on board!

That was fun!

We also bought the video Narrow boating waterway magic the first year we went.

Wich I would recormend to anyone going boating for the first time

[purplehaze]

Not all boat yards are near locks!! How a new boater manages I have no idea!!

 

When I first went some 21 years ago, my mum and dad were very experienced and dad taught me how to do the locks, how to step off the boat, not jump, not to mess around on the roof, not to walk along the sides, unless you really have too etc He also taught my sons, then aged 8 & 10 how to behave around locks and they had to wear life jackets (they were not impressed!)

 

21 years down the road I have taught hubby and my sons how to do locks etc and also groups of friends, next year my brother (who knows whats what) will be joining us along with totally inexperienced wife and three daughters, should be fun!

 

I would dread going out for the first time these days, the canals are busier than ever, hire firms are bigger and sometimes less friendly. Out this year, first week in September (it seems ages ago ) We went from Chirk where they had 20 boats all going out on the same afternoon, they wouldn't let anyone on the boats until dead on 2.30 although it was obvious that most were ready. By 2.15 there were waiting people all over the place, come 2.30 and it was like a stampede. Needless to say the handover was thorough with a full walk through and even question asked about locking etc, but there are no locks near for a real practise. We were away quickly but were suck behind a complete novice with the boat staff hopping off just before the short Whitehouse Tunnel, as they entered the tunnel they stopped! Despite a loud reving of engine they weren't going anywhere, reason, tiller hard over, eventually they worked out the problem and bounced from side to side the whole length of the tunnel, this was how they navigated all afternoon with one crew member steering and the other working the throttle whilst at the same time dashing side to side shouting left/right, they appeared very stressed, not a good start for their holiday, especially with six boats all close behind them watching their every move.

 

Most boat yards, Napton, Canal Cruising Company, Kate and other boat yards run by the same firm as the one at Chirk let their boats go early if ready, that way even if all boats are due out they are staggered, we felt really sorry for the fishermen (really ) and wondered why they bothered on Saturday afternoons.

 

Also a problem was the length of time swing bridges were left up to accomodate all the boats, mind you helpful for us as we didn't have to raise one or lower one. On another point many thanks to the very rude private boat, no name but I have his number, who at the Fron Lift Bridge overtook 3 waiting boats to steal the liftbridge from the oncoming boat who had raised the bridge in the first place, he only wizzed through to turn round to come back. Did he not wonder why three crews were on the tow path holding ropes!

 

As to proper tution vey difficult, unless the boatyards willing to spend ages with a novice crew, and next to impossible if no locks/swing bridges etc near the boatyard, but I agree it really is down to the hirer to read lots, get maps, check routes/times to ensure that what they plan is possible and being aware of how dangerous the canals can be if you don't take care. It is also up to us lot more experienced, but still liable to make a cock up or two, to pass this on if we meet up with a boat that looks like it might need help

Julie

 

Julie

[good7saint]

Not all boat yards are near locks!! How a new boater manages I have no idea!!

 

When I first went some 21 years ago, my mum and dad were very experienced and dad taught me how to do the locks, how to step off the boat, not jump, not to mess around on the roof, not to walk along the sides, unless you really have too etc He also taught my sons, then aged 8 & 10 how to behave around locks and they had to wear life jackets (they were not impressed!)

 

21 years down the road I have taught hubby and my sons how to do locks etc and also groups of friends, next year my brother (who knows whats what) will be joining us along with totally inexperienced wife and three daughters, should be fun!

 

I would dread going out for the first time these days, the canals are busier than ever, hire firms are bigger and sometimes less friendly. Out this year, first week in September (it seems ages ago ) We went from Chirk where they had 20 boats all going out on the same afternoon, they wouldn't let anyone on the boats until dead on 2.30 although it was obvious that most were ready. By 2.15 there were waiting people all over the place, come 2.30 and it was like a stampede. Needless to say the handover was thorough with a full walk through and even question asked about locking etc, but there are no locks near for a real practise. We were away quickly but were suck behind a complete novice with the boat staff hopping off just before the short Whitehouse Tunnel, as they entered the tunnel they stopped! Despite a loud reving of engine they weren't going anywhere, reason, tiller hard over, eventually they worked out the problem and bounced from side to side the whole length of the tunnel, this was how they navigated all afternoon with one crew member steering and the other working the throttle whilst at the same time dashing side to side shouting left/right, they appeared very stressed, not a good start for their holiday, especially with six boats all close behind them watching their every move.

 

Most boat yards, Napton, Canal Cruising Company, Kate and other boat yards run by the same firm as the one at Chirk let their boats go early if ready, that way even if all boats are due out they are staggered, we felt really sorry for the fishermen (really ) and wondered why they bothered on Saturday afternoons.

 

Also a problem was the length of time swing bridges were left up to accomodate all the boats, mind you helpful for us as we didn't have to raise one or lower one. On another point many thanks to the very rude private boat, no name but I have his number, who at the Fron Lift Bridge overtook 3 waiting boats to steal the liftbridge from the oncoming boat who had raised the bridge in the first place, he only wizzed through to turn round to come back. Did he not wonder why three crews were on the tow path holding ropes!

 

As to proper tution vey difficult, unless the boatyards willing to spend ages with a novice crew, and next to impossible if no locks/swing bridges etc near the boatyard, but I agree it really is down to the hirer to read lots, get maps, check routes/times to ensure that what they plan is possible and being aware of how dangerous the canals can be if you don't take care. It is also up to us lot more experienced, but still liable to make a cock up or two, to pass this on if we meet up with a boat that looks like it might need help

Julie

 

Julie

With regards to the last part of your post, we always try to pass on what we have learned to anyone we see having problems now.

As other people did help us when we needed it.

And yes we do still get things wrong some times.

[good7saint]

When we started our cruise from Acton Bridge on the Trent & Mersey 29 September we had problems passing boats starting from Claymoore Navigation at Preston Brook.

Don't know what training they where given but boats where moving out without looking for any boats that might be coming.

If anyone has seen the film independance day, it was like that seen when the airforce was attacking the space ship and all the smaller alien craft where darting in front of the planes scary.

One boat was that close behind me I could of handed him a cup of tea.

A few days later one of their boats came speeding down the canal made no attemp to slow passing moored boats, but worst still was zigzaging from one side of the canal to the other.

They looked like they where dodging u boats.