Paps Posted August 19, 2019 Report Share Posted August 19, 2019 (edited) Hi, I'm new to boating and whilst i'm loving every minute of it I'm having some issues with my engine - i'm hoping someone has some ideas what's wrong. I took it out yesterday and about an hour into the trip the noise changed, I check and smoke (exhaust smoke I thing) was coming out of what I think is one of the glow plugs. After a closer look I could see that a small white 'washer' was missing. I've attached a photo - it's the top one of the two that has the problem. I have some questions: 1. What's the part called - is this the glow plug? 2. What's the specific washer part called? 3. Is it easy to replace without risking further damage if I do it wrong? 4. Would subsequent damage to the engine likely to have been caused by this? 5. Is there anything else I should be aware of? thanks for your help! Jonathan Edited August 19, 2019 by Paps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Brooks Posted August 19, 2019 Report Share Posted August 19, 2019 1. it is a glow plug but an old 2 volt one. Almost certainly ASAP supplies can supply pair of 12V ones that will fit so you can do away with the tin series resistor and wire the plugs in parallel. 2. It is not a replaceable item. New glow plug required. 3. keep the photo so you know where the wires go and then undo the big nut. It may be rusted in or very tight. The whole plug shoudl then usnscrew. 4. None apart from sooty marks. 5. No as long as an injector pipe is not in the way. It it is come back. What engine is this, could it be another BMC 2.2? I expect the 2V glow plugs might be difficult to source. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paps Posted August 19, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2019 Thank you Tony, this is really helpful - much appreciated. I'm told that the engine is a "four cylinder raw water cooled Austin 2500cc four stroke diesel engine which had been marinised by Bowman" I can add another photo later if that would help. So, would I be able to directly replace the old 2v glow plugs with new 12 volt ones? and would I need to replace all four ? thanks again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Brooks Posted August 19, 2019 Report Share Posted August 19, 2019 OK, its a BMC 2.5 but those glow plugs suggest it is not. More likely a 2.2. Bowman do not as far as I know did not marinise engines but did and do supply manifolds and heat exchangers that others use for marginalisation. The oil filter design also suggest an early engine so more likely to be a 2.2 because by the time the 2.5 came on the scene spin ion filters were becoming popular. If Spanners from the relay thread sees this he may be able to say if 2.5s ever were fitted with either your type of oil filter or spin ons from new. If you can find the engine number or large cast numbers on the side of the block , probably manifold side, we may be able to give a more definitive ID but at present I would go with BMC 2.2. If the injector pump is an inline one rather than a DPA then its an early 2.2. A photo of the injector pump would easily show which type it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Mack Posted August 19, 2019 Report Share Posted August 19, 2019 3 hours ago, Paps said: Hi, I'm new to boating and whilst i'm loving every minute of it I'm having some issues with my engine - i'm hoping someone has some ideas what's wrong. I took it out yesterday and about an hour into the trip the noise changed, I check and smoke (exhaust smoke I thing) was coming out of what I think is one of the glow plugs. After a closer look I could see that a small white 'washer' was missing. I've attached a photo - it's the top one of the two that has the problem. I have some questions: 1. What's the part called - is this the glow plug? 2. What's the specific washer part called? 3. Is it easy to replace without risking further damage if I do it wrong? 4. Would subsequent damage to the engine likely to have been caused by this? 5. Is there anything else I should be aware of? thanks for your help! Jonathan The upper glow plug has clearly failed, and the soot on the head of the 'nut' shows that exhaust gases are leaking through it. Both wires are connected to the same side of the insulator, so the glow plug is not in circuit (and the other three are seeing a higher voltage). Also, the knurled nut on the end has been replaced the wrong way round. Time for replacement! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Brooks Posted August 19, 2019 Report Share Posted August 19, 2019 10 minutes ago, David Mack said: The upper glow plug has clearly failed, and the soot on the head of the 'nut' shows that exhaust gases are leaking through it. Both wires are connected to the same side of the insulator, so the glow plug is not in circuit (and the other three are seeing a higher voltage). Also, the knurled nut on the end has been replaced the wrong way round. Time for replacement! Good spot, well done I missed that. I fear he may be forced to use 12V plugs now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paps Posted August 19, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2019 Thank you David. Paul - i'll post some more pictures later. Question to both - would I be able to directly replace the old 2v glow plugs with new 12 volt ones? and would I need to replace all four, and is there a specific type I should order? this is incredibly helpful - thank you both! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Brooks Posted August 19, 2019 Report Share Posted August 19, 2019 15 minutes ago, Paps said: Thank you David. Paul - i'll post some more pictures later. Question to both - would I be able to directly replace the old 2v glow plugs with new 12 volt ones? and would I need to replace all four, and is there a specific type I should order? this is incredibly helpful - thank you both! Yes you will need to change all four, do away with the series resistor that is in a sort of square of bent tin and rewire the new plugs in parallel. The type is whatever fits your engine so you need to an accurate identification. If its a 2.2 then the ASAP Supplies 2009/10 catalogue lists the 12V plugs as 133051 but you will need to check with ASAP supplies to make sure the thread is the same as the 2v ones. They list the 2 volt ones as 133050 and if they still stock them its a straight swap as long as you wire it like the rest, not as it is. However the other 3 may have burned out as you have been feeding them 3 volts each. If you take them out you will see if the loops in the tips have burned out. If it is a 2.5 then ASAP lists the plug as 134050 All ASAP stock numbers I guess. It is vital you correctly identify your engine and talk to whoever supplies the plugs to ensure they will fit, especially if you go for the 12V option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan de Enfield Posted August 19, 2019 Report Share Posted August 19, 2019 The black wire linking the two glow plugs looks to be damaged / melted. It may be an idea to replace this at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Brooks Posted August 19, 2019 Report Share Posted August 19, 2019 Just been online her: https://www.asap-supplies.com/engine-spares-gearboxes/engine-spare-parts/bmc-leyland-land-rover-engine-parts/bmc-2-2-diesel It looks as if ASAP only supply the12V plugs so it will be all four and a rewire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paps Posted August 20, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2019 (edited) Hi, I couldn't see the engine number, unless its the one in the first picture, but I have added some more photos. So, i'll need to replace all plugs with 12V ones and replace the wire linking the two glow plugs - It seems like this should be fairly straight forward as long as I keep the photo, as you say - is there anything else I should be aware of? thank you again for your help Jonathan Edited August 20, 2019 by Paps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan de Enfield Posted August 20, 2019 Report Share Posted August 20, 2019 6 minutes ago, Paps said: I couldn't see the engine number, unless its the one in the first picture, but I have added some more photos. That looks to be the 'cover'. The engine 'number' will be moulded into the actual 'body' of the engine way down below the ancillaries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Brooks Posted August 20, 2019 Report Share Posted August 20, 2019 There appears to be no throttle butterfly on the inlet manifold so it can't be an early 2.2 but it might be a later one or a 2.5 but as I said I thought all 2.5s used 12 V glow plugs. The 12V plugs are wired like in parallel. That is with both wires under the same nut with no insulator between then so you get 12V to each plug and they earth through the engine block. Your 2V plugs have a resistor in series with them, possibly in that while plastic box. If you fit 12V plugs that will need removing from the circuit and the two wires on it joining and insulating. Thee seem to eb more wires going into that box than those needed just for the glow plugs so there may be a relay or two in there as well. The first number appears to be the part number for the rocker cover. The engine capacity might be in big (say 1.5") numbers cast into the engaging block side - the crank case part of it and probably below the exhaust manifold. Otherwise there will be a small flat area on the engine block somewhere with numbers stamped into it. I think I MIGHT be able to see it in the third image hiding behind the injector pipes but can not see any characters. Abrasive paper may eb needed to clean the rust off. As ASAP see to list different 12V plugs for the 2.2 and 2.5 you do need to identify the engine or talk to them. I suspect the 2.5 plugs have a smaller diameter thread as is modern practice so the 2.2 12V plugs still have to fit the large diameter threads the 2V plugs use. Whilst I might be fairly certain you will need 2.2 12V plugs I am not certain enough to say so definitively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boater Sam Posted August 20, 2019 Report Share Posted August 20, 2019 Some old Land Rover engines were 2.25 and had 2v glow plugs, there are a confusing number of BMC diesel engines used in various vehicles, including JCBs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Brooks Posted August 20, 2019 Report Share Posted August 20, 2019 You will find diagrams etc. for glow plug circuits here: http://www.tb-training.co.uk/MarineE07.html#GLOW PLUG CIRCUITS I am sure that your engine is a BMC diesel and not a Landrover one but Landrover may well have fitted BMC diesels along the way. However because of the distinct possibility of incorrect identification as Sam points out you do need to take care. At one time I would have said "take a sample plug to a motor factors" but the engine is so old I doubt many would know much detail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paps Posted August 20, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2019 thanks again everyone. I'll have another look for the engine number this evening Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paps Posted August 21, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2019 Some more pictures attached. It looks like 1261505 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Brooks Posted August 21, 2019 Report Share Posted August 21, 2019 Those are part number for the engine block not the engine number. If you can find an old BMC parts book the block number might give you the engine size by back referencing but I would not be so sure. It is likely the change from 2.2 to 2.5 only involved boring the block out more and altering the stroke so the block part number could be the same for both engines. The engine number will be on a machined flat area and the number stamped into the metal or punched into an alloy plate that is drive riveted to the block in the same place. I am going to download one of your image sand alter it to show where I THINK the number might be but if I am right the area will need abrading to get rid of the rust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paps Posted August 21, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2019 ok, i'll have another look this evening. thanks for your patience! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Brooks Posted August 21, 2019 Report Share Posted August 21, 2019 (edited) I think the engine number may be on the flat area behind the injector pipes as indicated by the arrow. Although industrial engines use a different system the automotive BMC engines tend to use number like 22 (letter) (string of numbers). The initial two numbers indicate the capacity but sometimes they were less because as an example the 1.5 engine was in reality 1498ccs. If yours has an industrial number that I can't decipher we will have to hope someone else on here can. Edited August 21, 2019 by NB Lola Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paps Posted August 22, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2019 Hi, I had another look and i'm struggling to find a number. I've added more pics in the hope this might aid identification but I think I may have to find somebody locally to have a look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Brooks Posted August 22, 2019 Report Share Posted August 22, 2019 OK, in your last photo the flat rusty area below the glow plug boss is where I would expect t see an engine number but I can't see any signs of punched letters. What I can see is what looks like the remains see of a drive rivet that would have held an aluminium strip with the engine number on it. The only other faint hope is if you can get a decent photo of the other side of the engine block that sits below the manifolds but i don't hold out much hope if you have looked there for large cast numbers. It is NOT an early 2.2 with an inline injector pump. It may be a later 2.2 with the DPA pup but I am sure the 2.5 used the same DPA pump. The type and position of the raw water pump proves to me it was never an official marinisation. The water pump would have been mounted where the cover that is to the left and slightly below the engine water pump pulley in the third photo is located. On balance I suspect this is a BMC 2.2 diesel engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewbacka Posted August 22, 2019 Report Share Posted August 22, 2019 Engine numbers are stamped and not very deep, so you will need to give the stamp area a good wipe clean and possibly remove the paint to find it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Brooks Posted August 22, 2019 Report Share Posted August 22, 2019 1 hour ago, Chewbacka said: Engine numbers are stamped and not very deep, so you will need to give the stamp area a good wipe clean and possibly remove the paint to find it. I agree but in this case where I think the number number should be you can see what looks suspiciously like a chiselled off drive rivet that once held an aluminium automotive part number strip to the block. I fear the only way to get a positive identification unless someone who knows can definitively say 2.5s never ever used 2 volt glow plugs is to take the head off and measure the bore and stroke. I suspect that a 2.2 head might fit a 2.5 so even 2V glow plugs is not definative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewbacka Posted August 22, 2019 Report Share Posted August 22, 2019 1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said: I agree but in this case where I think the number number should be you can see what looks suspiciously like a chiselled off drive rivet that once held an aluminium automotive part number strip to the block. I fear the only way to get a positive identification unless someone who knows can definitively say 2.5s never ever used 2 volt glow plugs is to take the head off and measure the bore and stroke. I suspect that a 2.2 head might fit a 2.5 so even 2V glow plugs is not definative. Being prone to mad ideas, you could take out an injector and seal a pipe to the hole then rotate the engine from bottom dead centre to TDC blowing the air into an inverted bottle full of water to get the air volume of the cylinder. Multiply by number of cylinders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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