Boater Sam Posted July 16, 2019 Report Share Posted July 16, 2019 6 minutes ago, bigcol said: Got a large 4 bladed prop Unusual, check what the g box ratio is ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigcol Posted July 17, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2019 20 hours ago, Tony Brooks said: I think the lower adjusting nuts are still on the engine feet so if you can lift/jack the engine to take the lower nuts off it will probably drop bu half and inch and that would be a lot better but only if you go for an Aquadrive. I think they come in various lengths so get the engine as far forward as sensible to lessen the angle. I see what you mean, I unable to get down their, so relying on mates etc. but if the thread inside the mounts can be reduced I think that could get me in the right direction! 19 hours ago, Boater Sam said: Remove the 4 brackets from the engine they are bolted on. Carve the tops of the brackets. Build up the brackets by welding steel on 3 sides by as much as you need to drop the engine to get it in line and weld the tops back on. Can all be done off the boat at a welders once you have measured how much drop you want. Are you certain that the engine will fit down in between the engine beds? Still might not come to that fingers crossed but another good idea! theres a good 4 inches below oil pan and bottom of boat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigcol Posted July 17, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2019 I’m thinking of purchasing compressed engine mountings with this combined with the flexible coupling I think we could be there. fingers crossed what is the most degrees that these couplings work to anybody.? many thanks for your tips and advice. Ps I do have a water stern gland. its been suggested I should have a anti thrust bearing as well, as I have the engine being measured up to fit this installation. This afternoon thanks col Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WotEver Posted July 17, 2019 Report Share Posted July 17, 2019 20 minutes ago, bigcol said: what is the most degrees that these couplings work to anybody.? Not a lot according to this document, only a few degrees, see page 10: http://www.halyard.eu.com/upload/downloads/aquadrivecv.pdf It also explains thrust bearing requirements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boater Sam Posted July 17, 2019 Report Share Posted July 17, 2019 With a Python or Aquadrive you will have to have a thrust plate welded into the hull and on that wide stern of yours its not so simple as on a narrow boat. Have you priced the Aquadrive, thrust plate and new engine mountings as against altering the engine brackets and a Centaflex or similar in line coupling? Aquadrive for a Beta 90 will be expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigcol Posted July 17, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2019 16 hours ago, Boater Sam said: Unusual, check what the g box ratio is ? It’s a PRM 260 2.1 TA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted July 17, 2019 Report Share Posted July 17, 2019 One question raised repeatedly and still not answered AFAIKS, can you move the engine forwards at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Brooks Posted July 17, 2019 Report Share Posted July 17, 2019 1 hour ago, bigcol said: I’m thinking of purchasing compressed engine mountings with this combined with the flexible coupling I think we could be there. fingers crossed what is the most degrees that these couplings work to anybody.? many thanks for your tips and advice. Ps I do have a water stern gland. its been suggested I should have a anti thrust bearing as well, as I have the engine being measured up to fit this installation. This afternoon thanks col Apart from the Aquadrive & Python Drive Zero mm radial displacement and angular displacement of about 2 degrees Max. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boater Sam Posted July 17, 2019 Report Share Posted July 17, 2019 1 hour ago, bigcol said: It’s a PRM 260 2.1 TA Looking at that number its not a dropped box but inline, there is the problem. See if PRM can change it to a 260D2.1, or sell it and buy anew 280D2.1 for around £1400. It may be cheaper and better solution than all the messing about and welding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigcol Posted July 17, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2019 It’s too much im going to place the engine up for sale today. its a pity but it’s not going to fit our boat. so if anyone wants a gentleman’s deal this is going to be nice engine to buy. its a green line 90hp was originally a keel cooled, but had over a £1000 kit supplied by beta to make it raw water cooled so easily converted back invoices are here to view. the engine is 8 years old, and has only done 400 hrs, it has all the loom and luxury panel i will look and wait for the engine that it was currently made for ive given up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boater Sam Posted July 17, 2019 Report Share Posted July 17, 2019 Sorry to wee on your parade bigcol but that is probably a sensible thing to do. Even of you got that engine low enough you would never get under it to do an oil change. Was I right about it being an in line gearbox not a drop? Sam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigcol Posted July 17, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2019 3 hours ago, Boater Sam said: Sorry to wee on your parade bigcol but that is probably a sensible thing to do. Even of you got that engine low enough you would never get under it to do an oil change. Was I right about it being an in line gearbox not a drop? Sam. Hi Sam it was too much, and after all that problem with the oil sump, yes please feel free to have a pee lol regards to the gear box, I’m not sure what we’re on about here lol col Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Brooks Posted July 17, 2019 Report Share Posted July 17, 2019 8 minutes ago, bigcol said: regards to the gear box, I’m not sure what we’re on about here lol col If you imaging the gearbox off the engine. At the front it has a splined input shaft. At the back it has an output shaft with the coupling on it. If you look at the two shafts are yours in-line (judge by the centre of the flywheel housing) or is the output shaft and coupling lower than the input shaft. Now, I have never seen a PRM hydraulic box that is not a dropped shaft one but I can not say in-line ones do note exist. If yours is in-line (not dropped) then a gearbox change may put the shaft in line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyboy Posted July 17, 2019 Report Share Posted July 17, 2019 6 hours ago, Boater Sam said: Sorry to wee on your parade bigcol but that is probably a sensible thing to do. Even of you got that engine low enough you would never get under it to do an oil change. Was I right about it being an in line gearbox not a drop? Sam. Yes, the OP's box does not have D in the part no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boater Sam Posted July 18, 2019 Report Share Posted July 18, 2019 (edited) If its a 260C then the input shaft is lower in the box so that it is on the same axis as the output shaft. This means that the box sits higher on the engine than the 260D. This attached shows the arrangement. Sam. PRM260.pdf But looking at the photos it looks like a 260D, confusing as to why the prop shaft is so low in the hull, what is the boat? Stern looks like a wide beam. Edited July 18, 2019 by Boater Sam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyboy Posted July 18, 2019 Report Share Posted July 18, 2019 22 minutes ago, Boater Sam said: If its a 260C then the input shaft is lower in the box so that it is on the same axis as the output shaft. This means that the box sits higher on the engine than the 260D. This attached shows the arrangement. Sam. PRM260.pdf 94.5 kB · 0 downloads The 260D has a 3 1/2" drop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigcol Posted July 19, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2019 One last pop at this engine with my new knee op last week, I’m relying on others to look at the situation my son-in-law came over and had a look, and took the 2 photos it shows that the sump tank is not on the floor but nearly touching a cross member so if this was cut down 3 inches eg and the beams where mountings would go get cut down just to lower where the mountings will go 1) if the gearbox flange married up to the prophaft flange, would that be it,? nothing has to go in the space in photo, ? ideal world engine just slid up to meet prop-shaft flange. 2) looking at engine mountings, the current height is 5.9 cm but looking arround at other mounting sites there’s low profile ones available is there a reason I can’t use these instead? i looked at these again I so Thankyou all for your help and post http://www.randdmarine.co.uk/enginemres.asp or http://www.randdmarine.co.uk/enginemres.asp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Brooks Posted July 19, 2019 Report Share Posted July 19, 2019 When someone said that the if you lowered it then the engine may foul something I look at the photos. If you look at the engine feet they have an angle to them and it looked to me as if lowering the engine in some way might bring those angles into contact with the edges of the beds but I am in no way certain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigcol Posted July 19, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2019 42 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said: When someone said that the if you lowered it then the engine may foul something I look at the photos. If you look at the engine feet they have an angle to them and it looked to me as if lowering the engine in some way might bring those angles into contact with the edges of the beds but I am in no way certain. Hi Tony it seems as tho it can come down about 2/3 inches plus the engine bottom will just fit in between, but soninlaws coming back over at the weekend just to check on your comment. thanks very much on the mounting shown, there’s a big nut and smaller nut, just thinking what if I take out the thicker nut. theres still locking nuts there ? Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Brooks Posted July 19, 2019 Report Share Posted July 19, 2019 1 hour ago, bigcol said: Hi Tony it seems as tho it can come down about 2/3 inches plus the engine bottom will just fit in between, but soninlaws coming back over at the weekend just to check on your comment. thanks very much on the mounting shown, there’s a big nut and smaller nut, just thinking what if I take out the thicker nut. theres still locking nuts there ? Lol I don't think you need any nuts below the engine foot, but maybe a washer directly ob to the shroud that covers the rubber. So it would go engine bed - engine mount - metal shroud - possibly a large washer if needed because of oversized holes in the foot (probably already on top of the lower nut) - engine foot - another large washer - top nut, preferably a self locking nut. Its unusual and I am not sure how it got fitted but one photo seems to show an inverted self locking nut under the foot. I doubt you need than and maybe not the thin nut below it but that depends upon the design of the mount. Unless anyone actually knows I would suggest its take the nuts off and see if the stud is still firmly in the mount. getting rid of the two nuts would drop the engine by about 25mm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boater Sam Posted July 20, 2019 Report Share Posted July 20, 2019 Without the bottom nut, the threaded pin will push through the rubber until it comes up against the engine bed, very noisy. Just modify the engine brackets! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Brooks Posted July 20, 2019 Report Share Posted July 20, 2019 21 minutes ago, Boater Sam said: Without the bottom nut, the threaded pin will push through the rubber until it comes up against the engine bed, very noisy. Just modify the engine brackets! In that case leave the thin nut there but how an engine sitting on a metal shroud that is in turn sitting on top of a block of rubber can exert a downward force on the stud is beyond me. It woudl be true if you removed the thin lower nut and suspended the engine part way up the stud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boater Sam Posted July 20, 2019 Report Share Posted July 20, 2019 33 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said: In that case leave the thin nut there but how an engine sitting on a metal shroud that is in turn sitting on top of a block of rubber can exert a downward force on the stud is beyond me. It woudl be true if you removed the thin lower nut and suspended the engine part way up the stud. I take your point Tony, I misinterpreted that, but it is not how these mounts were designed to be fitted, and of course then there is no way of adjusting the height of the engine. There may be little or no sideways compliance in the mountings either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Brooks Posted July 20, 2019 Report Share Posted July 20, 2019 15 minutes ago, Boater Sam said: I take your point Tony, I misinterpreted that, but it is not how these mounts were designed to be fitted, and of course then there is no way of adjusting the height of the engine. There may be little or no sideways compliance in the mountings either. Pleased I was not wrong and I agree that using them that way may be outside their design parameters but Big Col has a problem and getting shot of the nuts just might get him over it, at least until he has had time to recover. Actually I reckon an awful lot of engines installed without two point flexible couplings could do with reduced sideways compliance and fore-aft come to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigcol Posted July 21, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2019 havent been in engine bay yet due to a new knee op but everytime t get a visitor, I send then down there to take photo. soninlaw went down again yesterday, freed of the drive shelf pulling the shaft more into the boat the prop did look as tho it was too close to rudder. ist thing took photos of all four of mountings, and all seam to have spacer nuts on the mountings themselves are 5.5 mm high. looking there are mountings that are only 41cm high but was distinguishes one mounting to another. engine is 425kg in total there seem to be so many? if current mountings are 5.5mm height plus 25mm in spacers and nuts and if the 4.1 mounting can be used that’s 4cm reduction in height! just with new mountings. The drive shaft has a water lubricated, it has Strong on it, is this the name as I can’t find this on google. Re the engine just got to find out if this is workable. With help from yourselves. im desperate to have a look my self, but the body says no col Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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