Ian Mac

Balance and leverage are different things. Balance should cause the gate to either fall open or closed, depending on which side of the balance point the gate is. IE it is balance to have two stable positions. The greater the length of the lever, aids making it easier to move the gate from one stable position to the other, the amount of weight used to balance the gate correctly adds to the weight and friction that the gate has and thus the amount of effort required to move the gate. one could say its a bit of a balancing act, sorry I'll get my coat.

The plan currently is to have steel beams, with steel gates and have sacrificial wooden ends bolted on either side of the handle, such as when you touch the beam, it appears to be wood, but is mainly steel. Similar to how the heel posts and mitre posts are currentl;y done in steel gates, although there is debate about the possibility of using steel mitres and heel post with steel quoins.

So to sum up the feeling reported here A ) fix the breaking beam straight way B ) do not have a stoppage which impacts me boating C ) fix the broken paddles straight away D) do not have a stoppage which impacts me boating. E) Only the canals I'm using matter F) do not have a stoppage which impacts me boating. I am not quite sure how C&RT are expected to square this circle. I note that the latest release for the winter works period is now being called an Intensive Maintenance Period (IMP) Some within the Trust get it is a 24/7 system, especially as far as boaters are concerned. Therefore, the best thing to do with any failure, which can be bodged to last until it can be scheduled in an IMP is to bodge it. This particularly helps the hire boat industry, which do not in the main hire out boats during the IMP. It also applies to things which have a known manufacturing time. As to when is a piece of wood going to fail, that is a $64 million question. As some of you seem to know that things are going to break, please also do the euro millions, you may have a better success rate with that. As to Funding, C&RT are the only charity I know of which has Statutory duties which must legally be undertaken. Some of these relate to owning things such as reservoirs, others relate to the free access for all, to the towpaths for walkers and cyclist. I am not sure what the full legal list is, I would guess someone on here can produce it. I believe there are nearly 50 such instruments in place. Given the number of towpath users, and the frequency of their usage, if C&RT could levy an access fee of say £10 per person per year, not much compared to say membership of the National trust or RSPB or HE, then the trust would have enough money. As this is something the government has legislated for the trust to undertake, then I believe we should be looking seriously at how we make the government pay for the things they have deemed legally required. C&RT are seriously looking at steel gates as a longer term solution. Two locks have already been done, on an experimental basis, one on the K&A and one on the Lee Navigation. Neither have drawn much attention and survey undertaken by volunteers of the K&A one, draw not real boater grips other than the fact they are heavy to use. This heaviness is probably due to the original (from restoration) balance beams being reused rather than new longer ones, as were specified in the original design brief, but interestingly I believe these new balance beams got snaffled by another lock to replace failing wooden ones. Things are still moving on with the adoption of new steel gates and two locks had been scheduled to have all steel gates fitted this winter one lock on the HVNC and one on Hatton, however the detailed specification and manufacture of the gates was not happening fast enough, so both locks are now having traditional gates fitted. However, it is just a matter of time I believe now till C&RT switch over to mainly steel gates. Some wooden gates will remain, particularly on some listed lock sites. PS these new steel gate designs are not the same as the 1970's steel gates and are a far better design in my opinion. -- Cheers Ian Mac

HA HA HA! given the construction of the feathers there is zero chance of that happening and then i heard that the parts were neatly piled up near by. This is someone with a serious grudge, so it is likely to happen again, until they are caught. PS The new lock 53 on the Rochdale was one of the locks which had its beams saw off. I still do not understand the farmers dispute, as they ended up with a far better access route.

Bagged another one earlier this year, reckon we are upto 21.5 out of 24 now not bad for a deep draughted historic narrow boat, on the connected system. The half - when we grounded above the winding hole on the Avon, we just backed down and turned, but at 3ft2" draught at the backend - to stop the hog, I think that was probably a wise move. Not done the Bedford levels, the Basingstoke, or the Yorkshire waterways, yet! Can not get past Dungbooth lock on the HVNC, , or managed to get pass Morse Lock on the Chesterfield - Boy did we try! and another attempt should now be made, as we are slightly thinner. Not done the Welford arm as it was shut on both recent occasions, when we passed it, before that it was full of hulks!

I must put a load money into the euro millions on Friday ,as I have far more chance of winning, than these gates falling out of their collars due to anything C&RT have done, or not done. One gate maybe, with a following win, and a none used canal, both gates - impossible. -- Cheers IAn MAc

The only reason I can come up with for the pound in Tod above lock 19 being dry as a bone is mis-use by a boater. That pound and the gates are as tight as a Ducks arse, I have never know it leak. Both the top gates and the guillotine are well tight, particularly the top gates. I suppose a paddle could have failed, not unknown, but I have not heard a call to arms over that. The problem with the Rochdale is that if a boater makes a mistake, it could be several days before anybody spots the error by which time all the water will have gone. I know we all make mistakes but please always double check when on these less well used canals.

The new plan is to use steel gates, where possible. The reason for doing this is that there is a major increase due in the number of gates needing to be renewed caused by the reopening of many canals around the millennium. Two lock have already been done as prototypes and as far as I can discover no-one has really noticed. One set are on the River Lee where there have already been several locks with Steel gates. The other set are on the K&A and again, no-one has really noticed, even after being asked about them, at a lock survey carried out over a period by volunteers. I personally think they need a bit more reform, and hopefully that is going to happen. The next set go in, this backend on Hatton, so that will be a real test. Using steel should reduce the cost of manufacture, and dramatically increase the time in place. We know this because, even the ugly late sixties steel gates have lasted well and are currently being refurbished. A requirement of being listed as historic in some cases, but in other because its significantly cheaper, than building new gates.

A quick look reveals several missing pubs on just the Bridgewater. The Walton Arm The Swan with two Nicks The Vine The Red Lion The Olde Packet House. The Brook & The Booklands Tap Sale Cruising Club Bar not forgetting the Brewery tap & the Stubbon Mule. only open Fri & Sat evenings I think. all of which were open last November. On the Ashton The Strawberry Duck. The Silly Country.

The time to do the Cheshire ring depends entirely on your pace. I and several other I know have done it in three days. The navy canoe team did in just less than 24 hrs but they portaged all the locks. Many hire boats do it in a week. At the other extreme I know one gentleman who took over a year to complete the ring. He spent several night on the Ashton flight, because he could. Hopefully with Todbrook coming back on stream as a supply, the timed limitation on the use of Bosley and Marple locks, due to reopen in a couple of weeks time, will be lifted. An example set of stops starting from Preston Brook in the afternoon, and getting back in the morning. First night Salt Barge. The Old No. 1 if shut press on to The Axe & Cleaver in Dunham Second Night Cheshire Cheese The Silly Country Third night The Bluebell The Bulls Head Forth Night Ye Olde Kings Head Queens Head Fifth Night Cheshire Ring The Royal Oak if its survived else press on to the Cheese Sixth Night The Brewery Tap The Leigh Arms Clockwise has been really buggered up because the Royal Oak at Oakgrove has gone, so one has to bash on to Congleton these days.

My understanding, gleaned by talking to people, and written sources, is that Claytons landed the Contract to carry 200tons a week from Stanlow to Titford of fuel oil (Faulkner) Saudi light Crude (Man from Shell) for Shell in the early 1920's. Clayton provided 10 horse boats to start with to undertake this task, the boats would work mainly in pairs under one captain, with one horse per boat, unlike GU practice. Made operating the narrow lock flights far easier. The boats where loaded at the oil wharf on the Ship Canal and were towed there and back by Ship Canal Tugs. They loaded either directly from the tankers or from the terminal. The terminal is on the far side of the ship canal. Even after Clayton swapped over to Motor boats, the boat still had to be towed on the ship canal, it was only in 1953 that Claytons where allowed to motor themselves up the ship canal to the oil terminal. Sometimes they also loaded from Shell Trafford Park which was just near the Tank. The boatmen could do one trip a week comfortably and however it would be possible to do two trips in a week especially in the summer, which Claytons were always pushing them to do. THat said they only managed on average 40 round trips per year, so not sure how that adds up. The last horse boat pair did not stop till the early 50's as with two horse boats you could get an extra 3 tons on and when your being paid by delivered tonnage, that matters. The motor boats started to arrive in 1937, and were put straight n the the Stanlow turn. Clayton had lots of other traffic mainly to do with moving residues from Gas works and taking it to processing works. This was main based in the black country, although they had a fleet which operated in the south and another traffic from Lemington to Banbury. The oil traffic dried up when the Government allowed the pipeline system installed for the war to also be used commercially. Pluto - Pipeline under the ocean was the system used to feed the D day landings. The pipe for this actually starts at Ellesmere port and runs straight down the country to Avonmouth then across to Southampton. It now goes under the Droitwich Barge canal at the tail of the second lock up from the river, it use to just cross the middle of the lock, before restoration. Anyway there is a pumping station at Kidderminster, that was used by Shell using road tankers to do the traffic from1954 onwards. It is much cheaper to send a fluid down a pipe, once the pipe is there, than any other method.

I can assure you there are two hatches, with hinges pointing forwards and backwards. Its a motor boat built to the standard design. To operate you need two hatches in the centre, otherwise you can not load the boat effectively. Below the hatches is a central bullhead. This has a paddle in it to enable the front to be loaded down till the boat is level, then the back tank can be loaded, the front topped up and then finally the paddle can be opened to finally trim the boat. Without this centre bulkhead if a motor is loaded all the load runs to the back and you quickly sink the boat. If one looks at the motor boat on the right hand side of the three, you can clearly see both central hatches and the centre bulkhead, as the slide is not there. The reason for the slide is to stop water entering the tanks and spoiling the Saudi light Crude. The tanks were also sealed with lead seals once the loading had been completed. Notice the hatch pins, each one has a hole in the top for a lead seal to be applied. Having looked though my collection the attached image shows both hatches open and the centre slide at the edge of the boat. It does not show the hinges but I assure you both sets are there. You can see the paddle handle folded down in the back tank. I am not sure if when Stour was rebuilt if the central bulkhead was reinstalled. I believe NB Spey is the only motor with its original paddle and bulkhead still in place. Tay does have a bulk head not sure how old, however the paddle is not originally from her, I believe. Just for the record there is another bulkhead at the back of the back tank separating the hold from the engine room bulkhead by 4 inches. This is (was) a legal requirement. Same gap is present on the butties between their cabins and the tanks. Same law insisted that the boats had decks.

A nice representation, as always the devil is in the detail. The BCN block is too high as are the side plank leading up to it should be flat to the deck. The centre hatch is a double hatch one either side of the bulk head so there should be 4 hinges two to the front and two at the back. I can live with the others. I just point these things out to keep the record correct, which is hard enough already, with just the two of us left in fighting trim. The discussion over the colour of the bottom band is interesting as the one on Spey is green, and as far as we can tell is always was. If you want to check the remains are now a centre piece of a flower bed in North Wales. Not that there was a lot of original timber on the outer surface left. All those iron nails holding the 5 strakes on, the bottom one should be a double one, currently not so, can't find the correct feather edged D bar, it should go to the start of the swim on both sides. The first image shows attempt two at prolonging the counter block undertaken in the mid 80's The second image is after the new backend rebuild last year. The discussion in the group was should the colours end straight as shown or scalloped. When we researched it we discovered both had been used at various times over the years with Claytons, so its a what do you fancy this time question.

Just seen an image of NB Don on the bottom.

Boat delivery - time equals money. Would have been a lot quicker if three pounds on the Manchester 18 had not been bone dry.

At the council meting last September, before I was voted off, I asked two questions which are relevant here. 1 Are the trust going to close either the Rochdale or the HVNC due to lack of funds, to which the Chair of the Trustees answered "not on my watch" 2 Why do we not make the Marple closure, a campaign by just declaring its closed and not fixing it, as the trust is broke, especially as we know how to win that one, as we have done it before. Its high profile in a marginal parliamentary seat. David Orr, the Chair responded, now is not the time to go down that road, there may become a time when we may have to adopt such an approach but I hope that we do not have to arrive at that point. From this I draw the conclusion that C&RT are not currently in the game of closing canals. This is the direction which the trustees are telling the management to move! This is particularly true of the HVNC and the Rochdale, as both have adjoining local authorities which have made agreements with C&RT about them being open for navigation. The original HVNC funding agreement has now run out, I am not sure what the current position is between the authorities along HVNC & C&RT is. The HCS still exists and it may well be in the mix there too as originally it was the holder of the funding from the Local authorities. That funding may well now come directly to C&RT. The agreement to support the Rochdale canal made by the local authorities is I believe for a much longer period of time 50 years, or so, I think, however I am not sure what the start date for that was, but it is still good currently. The original agreement involved the Waterways Trust and the local authorities. The Waterways Trust was absorbed by C&RT when it too became a charitable trust. As to Lock 1E on he HVNC there is thought to be a leak associated with the lock structure however it is proving very hard to discover where the leak is and where the water is going to. The last theory I heard was that the leak is in the stonework of the fore bay, however that has been in theory sealled but the leak persists. An ongoing mystery. I should also add that the Rochdale water problems are in the main due to poor boating practices. Last week I worked to boats through the Manchester 18 and Slattocks flights, no real problems plenty of water. This week I helped a boat though with an experienced crew. They did Castlefield to Smith Bridge in just less that 12 hours, but the flights were both in a mess. My conclusion is that another boat has been through and not made sure that all paddles and gates were closed. Pounds that I have never know to be dry before were dry, it was all very odd!

The other thing that C&RT have to undertake are the 47? statuary obligations which they inherited from when they were a government body. I am not aware of any other charity which has such legal obligations. Anybody know of any? Would be interesting to know just what the 47 obligations are, I suspect someone on here will have the list.

Here is an image from the J.Greenway collection of NB Yeoford & NB Pictor on the Duckhams oil run. You can see the purpose made tanks inside the boats. I am assuming this is taken somewhere on the Wryly, before Birmingham & Midland had a spat with British Waterways and Waterways took their dredger home.

The other problem with Tin boats was they could not carry the same load. This is all to do with the centre of buoyancy and the centre of Mass, The centre of mass has to be below the centre of buoyancy, otherwise it will roll over to get them in the correct place. I believe they are know as a couple as both forces work together. The closer they are to each other the more unstable the craft is, untill they pass each other and then turn turtle in an attempt to sort the problem out Adder was really unstable when loaded. We have replaced that plank twice now. so 37,58, 89 and then again in 2020 as it would have been silly not to do it. May have lasted another 5 to 10 years. Image shows the new wood laid out ready to have the scarf cut on to it before we steam it into place. The last plank to be replaced on that side.

Clayton specialised in carrying any liquids, when they first started they just had open boats, however following a boat overturning on the Thames government pass a law saying all liquids would be carried in enclosed tanks, and thus the tar boat was born. In the 1920's Clayton got a contract to deliver 200tns a week of Saudi light oil from Shell Stanlow to there facilities in Oldbury. This mean at least 10 boats on the job. Sometimes the oil was collected from Shell Trafford Park rather than Stanlow, not sure why that happened. This was stopped after the war when the Pluto pipeline system was slightly deregulated and the oil could be pump down the pipeline and became available from the Kidderminster pumping station, so it became cheaper to road haul it into Oldbury. Claytons other traffics of which people have written was the delivery of liquids from gas works to tar distilleries. This would bring Clayton boats all around the country. There was a southern fleet of wide beams which dealt with the London Gas works. Another oil traffic not sure who ran this one, was bringing petrol up the Seven from Avonmouth to Worcester. Infamous for one of the boats blowing up the Seven Rail Bridge. One thing these boats would do, is to shoot the weirs when the river was in flood. No need for Locks! Pluto only runs down from Stanlow to Avon Mouth then Southampton Water Not sure if the link to the Isle of White is still used. I do not believe it is bidirectional which some of the other lines are.

The thing about all of this is that it does not actually matter in the grand scheme of things. The result of this survey could easily have been predicted. Those that are living on the water because it enables them to have a roof over there heads do not want any increases in cost. Those that have their boat basically as a caravan parked up for 99% of the time and read the papers and know that its getting very expensive for everything but its their holiday home, don't care as long as it does not get too dear. Those in the middle fall either way depending on personal circumstances. What is the biggest cost rise I have seen? The increase in the cost of insurance makes what NBW are moaning on about seem totally irrelevant. The other major cost increase Fuel! Even Wheaton Aston is really dear now As we attempt to do a good bit of boating that really matters. Comparing to 4 years ago.

No No No 8ft Mr Brindley. The standard mantra when working on a 15hp Bolinder. Which is shoehorned into the engine room. It would also make the boatmans cabin on a wooden motorboat so much more accommodating.

This lock is a known Pinch point to those of us with historic craft. The tail bay is falling in, a common failure with W&B locks, many have been rebuilt over the years because of this failure. Once you know what to look for it is quite easy to spot the rebuilds. It has probably moved to the point where normal boats are now getting stuck. C&RT of course will blame almost anything else rather than there own infrastructure. Talking of W&B pinch points I believe the top lock at Taribiggee is also moving and has become a tighter pinch point. The HNBC have been reporting a problem with this lock since 2016! Locks 3 & 10 are also on the move.

The name is far old than that, it was a NEW royal hunting area created by/for William the Conqueror. As royal land it may well have been used to grow more trees when Henry Viii expanded the fleet. To bring it all back to canals the length of canal going east from Ellesmere is lined with Oaks which were planted to supply the canal Co with timber in the future. Can you image the shouting that harvesting them now would generate.

Your taking the meaning of the word forest incorrectly. It is not Forest as in Snow White, or The Ginger bread house, type of forest ie one full of trees, it is Forest as in an area of land reserved by Royals as a hunting area. In Norman times a forest then meant a hunting preserve. Also used by the De-Lacy family, the highest of the Norman Dukes, Norman Williams top mate, who was sent to the north to sort it out after the conquest. A Dukes hunting area technically including the De-Lacy's should have been called Chases - IE Cannock Chase. The Delacys called theirs forests - Forest of Bowland, Forest of Pendle, Forest of Gisburn, Forest of Trawden, Forest of Rossendale. None of these area's have much tree cover and are mainly high moorland, and have been since sheep were introduced to this country millennium's ago. Some of these are still part of the Duchy of Lancaster. Most have a deer park, a fenced enclosure of about 500 acres where deer could be managed. These give rise to names such as Fence, Park Farm etc.