Joseph

Hello Horace My late father's (and my) experience of canals began when he hired Kingfisher from Ernest Thomas at Gailey wharf in 1963, and then Heron in 1964. I have been back to Gailey several times since (and can commend Dr Langford's book) but the essential features seem to have remained from that time. The A5 had been enlarged in the 1950s, and much had changed since that time. I think there was coverage of the Ernest Thomas boats earlier on this forum, but it would be good to know more. There are some photographs of Gailey taken by Arthur Watts in 1955: http://collections.canalrivertrust.org.uk/bw200.1.89.12. Regards Joseph https://josephboughey.wordpress.com/

Hello everyone Well, I was shocked to find Andy's site had gone, but at least the archived version is there. I have found it very useful over the years, and look forward to its successor. I take Laurence's point about accuracy, but perhaps if sources are indicated (not giant footnotes, just an idea) that will take care of some of the less reliable information. Thanks Andy, your past efforts have been very much appreciated, and I hope there's more! Happy new Year Joseph

Well, I look at this part of CWDF site regularly (not the rest) and find that it is very lively. Not dying at all. I see NC's blog says people are "whingeing" (a term I detest) but I see very little on here that could fit the description of that unpleasant term. In my experience, everyone here is helpful and constructive (perhaps the odd exception) - long may that and the CWDF site continue! Happy New Year everyone J

Many thanks Especially to Ogwr for the clarification - the Tremorden that I recall may well be a replacement for the original Dean-built one. I begin to wonder how many 1950s/1960s marine ply boats are afloat - if any! if anyone has any idea what happened to the Tremordens and Miss Kenyon, I would be very glad to hear from you. Very many thanks again J

Hello everyone I thought it was a long shot! I think that the history of early pleasure boats is a lot more obscure than it might be. I am researching the history of Amaryllis (formerly Teal), which is "in the dry" at the National Waterways Museum at Ellesmere Port, and it is only by chance that records have survived. nebulae, I have wondered how long these wooden-hulled boats would last - what happened to Shiela? I have discovered that Tremorden won the prize at the Stourbridge Rally of 1962 for "the best commercially built inboard boat of more than thirty feet in length", when the owner was given as Miss M S Kenyon. Perhaps more fragments will turn up, but if anyone can add anything I would, as always, be very grateful. Thanks Joseph

Hello everyone An odd item which has turned up very recently is a log book, recording Tremorden, a wooden pleasure boat built by Deans at Rowton Bridge, Shropshire Union canal, launched on 9 March 1958. I gather that it belonged to Roy Kenyon of Manchester and his daughter Shirley, although when I met them later, Mr Kenyon insisted that it was "Shirley's boat". I think that this wooden boat was replaced by a steel one of the same name in the 1970s. The maiden voyage went to Agden, on the Bridgewater Canal, but when I met them in the 1960s, the Kenyons were members of the Nantwich & Border Counties Yacht Club. Mr Kenyon resigned from the NBCYC on a matter of principle - the Nantwich club decided to restrict mooring by members by short boats, and he objected, on the grounds that this would discourage longer boats, up to full-length narrow boats, from mooring and, by default, from using the waterways. Mr Kenyon later became president of the Federation of Bridgewater Cruising Clubs, and his death was recorded at the end of 1983. I have only been able to trace Miss Margaret Shirley Kenyon to being the librarian at MANCAT (college) in 1980. I don't have the details, but the log book and other effects came from someone who was clearing a house so, sadly, it looks like Shirley Kenyon may no longer be with us. I'm just wondering if anyone recalls the Kenyons and Tremorden, and/or has any idea what happened to the wooden Tremorden. Everyone on this forum is very helpful, but this is a bit of a long shot. I would be very grateful for any information. Regards Joseph

Very many thanks everyone Well, surprised to see the photos of converted lifeboats, but great to see them! The ones I recall were clinker built - these look like metal? Yes, de Mare's Pyrrha (wonder what happened to it?) was a converted pontoon - I am still wondering if there were pontoons in use before the war, and if so were any converted? Cyril Wood's site shows a restored converted pontoon, but whether this is still afloat is another matter. Well, I thought my query might raise the od reply but I am delighted that this has raised so many points. Thanks again Joseph

Many thanks anyone There are a whole lot of themes here - military surplus, DIY and improvisations, hire firms and so on. nebulae, I recall Elsans too...luckily only from boyhood, when my Dad would have to do the honours with a spade, while some other boaters would pour the whole lot into the canal! I'm not sure about the early trip boats at Llangollen - but the gent who started these was not actually a Captain, although he had been to sea! I'd love to see the photos of the lifeboats at Plank Lane - I wonder when wooden lifeboats became less common on ships? And if anyone has seen a converted pontoon still afloat, please let me know. I am beginning to wonder if the one at Ellesmere Port is a very rare survivor! Thanks again Joseph

Hello everyone I've a good reason for asking some seemingly odd questions about pleasure boating, and everyone has always proved to be helpful, so...maybe someone can help with these: 1. Purpose built canal holiday boats (narrow, anyway): ignoring boats like those which H R De Salis and A E Neal had built, and other individual boats, what were the first purpose-built canal boats that were more than one-offs, river craft and so on? My suspicions lie with the Holt Abbott boats from Stourport (began 1950), or the purpose-built ones that the Inland Cruising Association commissioned after 1935 - Bobby and Beryl, for instance. Has anyone heard of any other very early examples? 2. People here have been very helpful about narrow boat conversions, but, more obscurely, does anyone know when was the first conversion of a pontoon or a ships' lifeboat? I have traced a lifeboat conversion back to 1947, at Hanham, and a narrower lifeboat (often lifeboats were over 7 feet wide) to the Macclesfield Canal in 1948. Two pontoon conversions (6 feet wide!), owned by the early IWA member G E Livock of Sussex, were recorded in 1948. I assume that war surplus and ship scrapping will have been the source for these, but has anyone come across any such conversions before 1939? 3. Having no boat, I haven't travelled around by canal (I have by road) and so I have not been able to spot whether there are still any converted pontoons or lifeboats afloat (there is a pontoon in the dry at the Boat Museum). Has anyone seen any? Well, these queries could involve some head-scratching (I have done a fair amount of that myself!), and much of the information, if it is there at all, may well be in peoples' recollections. I would be very grateful if anyone can shed any light on these queries; any answers will help to get the historical record right, and will be put to good use. Fingers crossed, and have a good August Bank holiday. Thanks for reading. Joseph

Hello Does anyone know when the side ponds were taken out of use? I recall at least some of these working in 1965. Regards J

Hello everyone The presenter was Liz McIvor, who is involved with the Bradford industrial Museum - good museum, but had only one photograph of the Bradford Canal when I was last there - no other mention of canals, unless I missed something. Actually, I thought she was very clear and well-expressed, but it wasn't obvious whether she knew much about the waterways. Notwithstanding that, she now has a book about waterways to her credit! ! didn't recognise Liz McIvor from a waterways context - does anyone know if she is a familiar figure on the waterways? Eagle-eyed members may note that I was involved with this series - I would be very interested to see what people thought of it. Take care, everyone. Joseph

Hello Limetree Mr Wilkinson left the contents of his garage - tools etc, a large haul - to the Waterways Recovery Group, as I recall. Can't trace the report of this at present. I too enjoyed Hold on a Minute, since reading it shortly after it was published. I, for one, would be interested in further memories of Mr and Mrs Wilkinson. Did they talk much about their canal exploits? Regards Joseph

Magnificent!! Thank you, everyone, for so many helpful comments. Regards Joseph https://josephboughey.wordpress.com/

Hello everyone I have recently been looking at a framed print that belonged to the late Charles Hadfield. It is believed that this was presented to him on his retirement from the British Waterways Board in 1966, or possibly earlier, when he retired in order to join BWB in 1963! Here is a link to an image of the relevant print - I hope I have done this correctly....!!: https://imageshack.com/i/p1WUwrIAj I wonder if anyone is familiar with this, and any idea who drew it, who published it, and when? Any clues would be very helpful. Regards Joseph https://josephboughey.wordpress.com/

Hello everyone I think this is Hadley Park Lock, shown on Tony Clayton's photos: http://www.tonycanalpics.co.uk/shrewcan/hp/index.html Any thoughts on dates, for each? clearly pre-1922 for the Trench inclined plane. "c.1900" is all too vague. Regards Joseph https://josephboughey.wordpress.com/

Fascinating stuff, Mike. Er, has anyone been through and analysed this material? I think Charles Hadfield did see some similar material, and made use of it, but not in detail. Regards Joseph https://josephboughey.wordpress.com/

Hello everyone I'm sorry to hear this - does anyone know more of the background to this? Besides for some interesting collections, the YWM was doing some excellent work in offender rehabilitation. is this to be lost too? Joseph

Very sorry to learn this. I met Stanley two or three times, and he struck me as a very thoughtful gent. He helped Charles Hadfield with the research for World Canals, finding and copying items from Birmingham Reference Library; and also researched the Cadbury family and waterways. In both cases he was modest about his work and achievements; when he suggested he might expand the study of Cadburys, he demurred on the grounds that what he had done was of no great consequence. I recall that he had an ancient Dormobile, that he kept going somehow, and used for going to waterways events. I always meant to ask him what had happened to it! A very sad loss. Joseph

Fascinating and thank you for posting it. Interesting view of David Hutchings (I assume) on Lady Hatherton. but does anyone know what is the real story about the donkey? Take care everyone Joseph

I knew Alan from the Inland Shipping / Inland Waterways Freight Group, although his commitment seemed to wane more recently . A great character, and decidedly off-beat! He did tell me that he spent his honeymoon on about 1962 recording all available details of boats sunk in the Lower Basin at Ellesmere Port. I tried to persuade him to send me some of these details, but it proved impossible to pin him down. As Pete says, his collection was/is valuable, and it is to be hoped that it can be sorted and preserved. I didn't know too much about him, apart from ISG meetings. Does anyone have any details of his background? Take care, everyone Joseph

Many thanks Leo No 2, I have PM'd you. Thanks again Joseph

Hello everyone I'm researching a little about Christopher and Daphne March, who had Heather Bell from 1937 to 1954, and Bridgemere (converted 1933, broken up 1937) before that. I am aware that Christopher was born in Pershore on January 1912, and became a solicitor there in 1934. Later he moved to London. And then...what happened to him? Maybe I am looking in the wrong places, but I can't find anything more. As ever, I would be grateful for any thoughts and/or information! Regards Joseph

Thanks everyone Fascinating replies. Patrick, yes, I was only really asking about narrow locks with steel balance beams. Laurence, did the Bentley Canal gates last long at Curdworth - or was this a temporary expedient? Still not sure whether there are older examples than those specific narrow gates at Tyrley - e.g. on the Northampton flight? I wonder what was their design life - 50 years seems a very long time! Regards Joseph

Hello everyone About a week ago I went by road to Tyrley Locks, on the Shropshire Union Canal, and helped one or two people through the upper locks there. I was reflecting that it was 50 years since I first went to Tyrley, and how much had changed, when pushing one of the lower gates on the third lock down. This metal gate looked somewhat old, although still in reasonable order. On the balance beam, to my surprise, I noted the date "1963", so I might conceivably have pushed it when I visited in childhood! The lock above this (second from the top) also featured older metal gates, but with no date recorded. I wonder, idly, if these are the oldest such gates on the system? Off the top of my head, I cannot recall when BTW/BWB began installing metal gates on narrow locks, but I thought that it was about this period? No doubt I have it wrong and, if so, where and which are the oldest metal narrow gates on the system? I would be very interested in any response. Joseph

Hello In reply to sas's post, I don't think that there are any formal histories of early hire boat concerns; or I haven't come across them. There are odd items here and there, but nothing seems to have been collected systematically. I have researched a fair amount, and written about those on the Shropshire Union Canal for Waterways Journal. The fascinating entries in response to the posts about Ernest Thomas show what can be done with the right material. This is definitely one of those areas in which waterways history research could be carried out - and without any need for a history degree! Hope someone follows this up! Joseph